Slow Connection and disconnections

Good evening all,
I'm requiring some assistance for my auntie and uncles connection. They are on Sky and have been suffering drop outs for a long period of time. My cousin said it always drops when the phone rings but has recently started dropping more and more.
I pulled up his stats and got the following:

Connection Speed: 2560 Down 605 Up
Line Attenuation: 33.5db 20.3db
Noise Margin: 17.1db 16.16db

Can anyone shine any light on these bits of info. It may not be enough and I would require to go back. I tried going through their house to check all their sockets but it appears they have a good few extensions kicking about so I'll need to wait until I get hold of my uncle to find out exactly how he has it all connected.

According to the BT ADSL checker for their postcode (Sky phone so can't check number) they should be seeing in the range of 4.5-11MB on ADSL2+

Another thing is that their pings are in the 140ms range constantly.

Any help would be brilliant as I have forgotten everything I learnt about broadband fault finding after never needing it for the past 5 years!!

Yes, he should be getting about 12.5 Meg on ADSL2+, but this high NM is (partly) holding him back:

In reply to a post by michty_me:

Noise Margin: 17.1db 16.16db

You need to look at the extensions and test from the hidden test socket. Also do a Quiet Line Test.

So would you recommend looking into the wiring and extension sockets first? Sorry just noticed your post. Ill do that!

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Jun-14 00:04:30)

Test socket 1st to eliminate extensions.

Ok, I'll see if I can look at that tomorrow then. I'll report back with what I find.

Ok, I've just been round and checked the line. I done the quiet line test and it reported some echo on the line but little noise.

I opened what I believe to be the master socket (not 100% sure if it is) and disconnected the bell wires. Going through all the other sockets (4 in total) I found wires connected everywhere. I removed all apart from the ones connected into 2 and 5. I also found a slightly slack connection in the extension going to the socket that the Sky hub is connected to.

I then re-done the line test and it reported no echo and very little noise.

Line stats have not changed at all but after making several calls from my mobile to the landline, I never witnessed one drop out.

As for the master socket, I believe it is the master due to the thickness of the cable entering the socket box. Quite a chunky grey one and I think it had an armored sheath possibly if I remember right.
I've asked my Uncle to call sky to see if they can run a few quick tests and possibly try a DLM reset but I'm not sure if Sky will allow this.

Oh and it appears the pings have gone done from 140ms to approx 35ms. I'm not sure if this is coincidence or not.

I've just spoken to my cousin who gave me a better idea of what is going on.
He said that with the old router it disconnected every time the phone rang. Now with the Sky hub it just gives random disconnections.
I'm unsure with which way to go with this issue now as I'm unsure if it is a wiring issue (Hopefully not after the checks I done), A router issue or an exchange issue.

Is a DECT cordless type phone being used or, corded standard phone. If former try double filtering. Broadband from 1st filter, phone attached to second filter.

In reply to a post by flippery:

Is a DECT cordless type phone being used or, corded standard phone. If former try double filtering. Broadband from 1st filter, phone attached to second filter.

Correct. A who group of DECT phones are connected. I could try that. I'll see what happens over the weekend and see if my uncle actually bothered calling them.

Set of stats after wiring changes and a reboot will help.

A router reboot was carried out and stats remain the same as far as I know. I'll need to go get another screen grab. Nothing changed yesterday anyway.

With Sky the up and down sync speeds won't change because of the way Sky's DLM works. It's stability based and caps the speed unlike other ISP that use a target SNR based DLM.

You mentioned the ping has dropped so something has changes. If the line is "cleaner" now DLM will probably kick in within the next few days.

Yeah sync speeds may stay the same, but was hoping to see if noise margin had varied at all.

If impatient and confident wiring changes have improved things, then a call to Sky support and tell them you've fixed an extension wiring issue and can they reset their DLM (Dynamic Line Management) might start the training period from scratch.

I have found the ADSL2+ DLM on Sky does respond on its own if you are patient though.

I did read about it usually doing its thing in the early hours of the morning. I'll leave it with them over the weekend and recheck on Monday. Hopefully we see an improvement. If the drops out are sorted then hopefully that allows it to increase!!!

Ok I managed to get a screen grab from around 4pm this afternoon. The stats are as follows:

Connection Speed: 2046 Down 605 Up
Line Attenuation: 33.0db 19.8db
Noise Margin: 15.8db 16.15db

On a plus side, They haven't dropped connection since Friday.

Looks like the Sky DLM is holding them back, so its wait for the system to adjust (a few weeks) or try prodding support now connection is stable.

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc will give you an idea of what is possible on the line

I'll leave it with them for now. I'm currently sitting in the airport and will be away a week or two so hopefully by the time I get back their stats have improved. I'll post up some new stats upon my return.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Looks like the Sky DLM is holding them back, so its wait for the system to adjust (a few weeks) or try prodding support now connection is stable.

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc will give you an idea of what is possible on the line

OK so my trip got cut short, So I've left it a week or two and now have the following stats.

Connection Speed: 4093 Down 1399 Up
Line Attenuation: 33.0db 19.8db
Noise Margin: 15.6db 3.3db

What do you reckon is next? Disconnect all extensions and just use the master for a few days or try and get sky to do a DLM re-learn? I think we still have an issue to be honest with that down stream noise margin. When I plugged it into the master socket nothing changed though.

4 Meg is the default start point for the Sky DLM system and they cap the sync speed so a reset of the Sky DLM would be the way to go

Thanks mate. I'll get my uncle to call up and see if he can get the line on a DLM trainer again!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

4 Meg is the default start point for the Sky DLM system and they cap the sync speed so a reset of the Sky DLM would be the way to go

Ok so no call to Sky as of yet and I don't think it is required now.

I checked the stats yesterday and have the following so it looks like DLM is doing its thing.

Connection Speed: 8191 Down 1399 Up
Line Attenuation: 33.0db 19.8db
Noise Margin: 9.9db 3.3db

Up time was registering as 92hrs. I'll leave it until next week before I start doing the master socket. Give the DLM time to settle.

Ok it looks like we are back to normal now.

Connection Speed: 10239 Down 1364 Up
Line Attenuation: 33.0db 19.8db
Noise Margin: 6.6db 3.3db

Is the lowest 6db for the noise margin on Sky?

A few have seen lower, but difficult to project using noise margin with Sky due to the way their DLM caps the sync speed and pulls back the power at the same time.

Would still expect faster based on the attenuation e.g.
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

A few have seen lower, but difficult to project using noise margin with Sky due to the way their DLM caps the sync speed and pulls back the power at the same time.

Would still expect faster based on the attenuation e.g.
http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

Yeah I just checked that out 10 minutes ago.
I guess that will be as good as they will get then if they remain with Sky. At least the main issue is now resolved. Thanks for your help. It is appreciated greatly!!

Ok guys, I have another one for you.
This one is of my friends connection out in the country side. His connection is pretty poor at the best of times and I believe he has ever only had about 2Mb line tops.
I pulled his stats and they are as follows.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hdyD7Qz.png[/IMG]

There connection comes in on a drop wire through the roof. There are no extensions on it, Just the main cable going to another box in his living room with everything connected onto that. Any thoughts?

7 - 8 Meg expected.

Has he tried test socket & QLT as I recommended you?

Why is this EE issue under Sky? No giving it the best visibility!

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 14-Jul-14 22:00:59)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

7 - 8 Meg expected.

Has he tried test socket & QLT as I recommended you?

Why is this EE issue under Sky? No giving it the best visibility!

Hi, this is a separate issue to my original post. Maybe you are right and I should make a new thread in the relevant area.