Exchange Congestion?

My family have been complaining about slow speeds for a while in the evenings so I thought I would run a speed test, this is what I got:

TB Speed Test

Is this congestion at the exchange? I don't see this on my SamKnows report but typically it samples 3-4 times a day and never it seems at peak times!

Cheers

Skilty

If at non congestion times the two lines merge into one then yes probably congestion

Generally I see a nice graph and the internet is pretty snappy until about 3-4 weeks ago.

As I have the line rental increase I can dip out of the contract with Sky for LR, calls and fibre.

Just been looking at Pulse8, as I work from home and my wife is a professional blogger does anybody have any comments on their service?

As Sky will be £17.40 + £8 + £30 = £55.40 a month Pulse8 come out pretty cheap in comparison (I am on Sky Fibre Pro).

Assuming as my exchange has TalkTalk LLU Pulse8 will put me on TTB...

to clarify are you saying your samknows graphs are showing full speed at peak?

if yes it would suggest the exchange backhaul link is ok.

Also what have sky told you when you asked if there is congestion on their backhaul?

The majority of data points do say 64mb, but there are data points dropping down to the low 40s.

It depends on when the samples are taken...

My next port of call is Sky tomorrow morning to ask them about it.

Of course I then have to connect the SR102 as I have BT OR plus my Asus AC87U at the moment.

Spoke to Sky and the guy said he couldn't see any contention at the exchange.

I did a tracert to www.bbc.co.uk:

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.92]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms ASUS-RT-AC87U [192.168.2.1]
2 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
3 3340 ms 2851 ms 3030 ms 97e7fe38.skybroadband.com [151.231.254.56]
4 11 ms 12 ms 12 ms 02780a30.bb.sky.com [2.120.10.48]
5 11 ms 10 ms 10 ms ntl-ge2-9.prt0.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [212.58.238.189]

6 * * * Request timed out.
7 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms ae0.er01.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.93]
8 12 ms 11 ms 12 ms 132.185.255.165
9 12 ms 11 ms 11 ms bbc-vip013.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.92]

Trace complete.

And having switched back to the SR102 can see these stats:

System Up Time: 29:55:41

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collision Pkts Tx b/s Rx b/s Up Time
WAN MER 18766630 36434122 0 52146 1167116 29:54:57
LAN Up 36032405 18654266 0 1589510 83364 29:55:41
WLAN Disable 0 0 0 0 0 00:00:00


Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 67214 kbps 20000 kbps
Line Attenuation 14.6 dB 0.0 dB
Noise Margin 6.4 dB 9.9 dB

So now a bit lost as I checked the router and I am the only active connection!

Which exchange and do you know any one else on a Sky connection, to see if they see similar in the evenings

It's WWBRIX.

Unfortunately I don't, they all moved to BT when they had the seemingly cheap offers!

This is what I would expect to see and what I saw on Sunday afternoon:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14451...

This is what I am seeing this morning, which is better:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14453...

Edited by Skilty (Tue 20-Oct-15 08:13:32)

Spoken to Sky and they have said there is no congestion at the exchange. But the speedtest on TBB show otherwise. Took a few today and they tend to show a pattern and that there is slow down in the evening which slowly recovers:

11:03
12:54
16:26
20:18
21:20
22:28
23:16
23:39
23:47

Sky are sending out a new router to see if that fixes the issue. The only other thing I can think of is congestion at the DSLAM in the cab?

The slowdown isn't really significant enough for Sky to take any action.

At my exchange Sky finally admitted there was a congestion problem when fibre customers were getting sub-1 Mbps download speeds at peak times. It then took 3 weeks to sort due to various miscommunications between Sky, Alcatel-Lucent and Openreach.

I did think they wouldn't be that interested to be honest. Slow down is a given but not down to 20mb.

Just looking for peoples experiences with Pulse8 and I am offskie I think. Works out slightly cheaper than Sky when I come off my "deal" in a couple of months anyway.

yeah that evidence is strong, midday seems early for congestion to kick if those are week day stats.

whats your tbb graph like?

Those stats were from yesterday as I wanted to ensure the kids weren't on Netflix etc.

I did try Netflix at the worst point and sure enough there was freezing etc which just points to congestion somewhere. Unless the SR102 is having problems, new one arrived this morning session will give it a try but I think they were grasping at straws.

Begrudge paying £30 a month for fibre when I can get a better service elsewhere.

In reply to a post by Skilty:

Unless the SR102 is having problems, new one arrived this morning session will give it a try but I think they were grasping at straws.

You're not doing the speed tests using WiFi are you?

Nooooooo hard wired

In reply to a post by Skilty:

Nooooooo hard wired

Phew

And the slow down begins again

The time and effort required in chasing Sky is actually not worth it. Especially when they are saying there is not a problem. Unfortunately my wife and kids are telling me otherwise at peak times and I can see it when it isn't peak!

Of course the only other thing I can think of is the SamKnows box but as it is the 1GB switch variety I can't see it and we have never had any problems with it before now.

I am surprised as sky doesnt have commonly known congestion issues but the evidence is clear enough for me.

If sky say there is nothing to fix then migrate out to someone else, thats the simplest thing to do.

This is assuming you not got a family member hoarding bandwidth during peak times.

Also I would like to see a tbb graph, as I would expect congestion to show up on that.

I made sure the kids weren't using Netflix etc at the times I ran the tests.

Times in this post link to the TBB graphs at different times of day, is that what you are looking for?

So tonight I have installed the new SR102 Sky sent me. Only my laptop connected via ethernet and this is what I got:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...

One device connected, wifi switched off with the modem syncing at:

Modem Status Connected
Traffic Type:PTM
Line Rate - Upstream (Kbps):20000
Line Rate - Downstream (Kbps):67851

Line Attenuation 14.6 dB 0.0 dB
Noise Margin 6.4 dB 9.9 dB

So I am completely lost as I don't see what else this can be besides congestion.

In reply to a post by Skilty:

So tonight I have installed the new SR102 Sky sent me. Only my laptop connected via ethernet

What's the laptop? Which OS, what security software, etc. Have you tried any other laptops with different OS and/or security software? Which browser? Which version of Flash and Java ??

Just thinking of the bits that could affect the TBB speed test. Do you get similar on any other speed test?

MacBook Pro running El Capitan and latest version of Chrome. No antivirus software to elimate any issues from that.

Also run on a Windows 10 Pro PC with the Microsoft default software, run in both Edge and IE11. All running latest versions of Flash and Java where applicable.

Same results with direct connection to SR102 and all other devices disabled (they connect via an Asus RT-AC87U)

the tbb tests do strange things on my MacBook Air - but you've checked with a Win10 PC so that rules the Mac issue out.

Odd as a mac book air is one of the devices we test on.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Odd as a mac book air is one of the devices we test on.

I don't use Chrome which probably throws you, and mine is an old machine now. I mostly use a Win10 desktop.

no I mean ping graph, e.g. mine is here http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/2c7929f86f4...

I dont see the point of running more and more speedtests here and complaining here, sky dont even read this forum.

Either you decide its congestion and jump to a new isp or you put up with it. there is a chance its an issue your end but you seem to have indicated you have checked your side so I suggest changing isp.

Ok so here is my graph from the 22/10:

My Broadband Ping

Not complaining, it is what it is, never experienced congestion on an exchange or a CAB so not 100% what it is. Hence looking to see what people think that a lot more experience with these things than me...

Congestion can be at any point in the backhaul route from the cab. It might be an idea to try a few tracert commands to a known end point at both good times and when congestion is being observed. If there's a big jump in the time taken on a particular leg it can give an indication of where congestion is occurring.

Unfortunately there can be problems with this approach in that some nodes may block the protocols used by tracert so you might find the results ambiguous in that it might be one of several legs in the route. However, it ought to be possible to work out potential suspects from the IP addresses (if they are DNS registered then the domain name can give a clue, otherwise it's finding out who "owns" a particular IP address.

have you been turning your internet devices on and off? as you have a lot of weird latency spikes coinciding with packet loss, those do not look like congestion.

No I never switch off the modem, unless I change a setting that causes the SR102 to reboot.

Certainly didn't do that on that particular day.

This is a graph the day after I changed the router and again it has latency spikes, in fact now I am looking at the graphs everyday has them after the 16th October...

My Broadband Ping

Now the only thing that has changed since then is that I am doing exactly what Sky told me to do i.e. take the BT OR modem out, replace it with the SR102 and then use my Asus RT-AC87U so as not to violate their T&Cs...

So Sky sent out a BT OR engineer, line is perfect (which I already knew) and the exchange is currently below 90% so no congestion there.

I have switched back to the BT OR modem and that seems to have made a huge difference. Could it be the SR102 just cant handle the amount of traffic going through it in "bridge" mode?

After 8 hours no latency spikes or packet loss.

In reply to a post by Skilty:

Could it be the SR102 just cant handle the amount of traffic going through it in "bridge" mode?

That is possible.
Which openreach modem? (Huawei or ECI) do you have?

I wonder if the VDSL chipset in the modem works better with the chipset in your cabinet - than the one in the Sky router.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Skilty:

Could it be the SR102 just cant handle the amount of traffic going through it in "bridge" mode?

That is possible.
Which openreach modem? (Huawei or ECI) do you have?

I wonder if the VDSL chipset in the modem works better with the chipset in your cabinet - than the one in the Sky router.

The cab is an ECI and the BT OR modem is also an ECI. I would hack it but it is the later model with a different PCB layout

Test with Safari, Chrome and Firefox on OS X usually and the usual suspects in Windows

the sr102 is poor kit, however I would expect it to still have equal performance at peak as well as off peak, however it is possible something on that device was causing those spikes, and if the BT modem has fixed the spikes and your performance then I say keep the BT modem in place.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

the sr102 is poor kit, however I would expect it to still have equal performance at peak as well as off peak, however it is possible something on that device was causing those spikes, and if the BT modem has fixed the spikes and your performance then I say keep the BT modem in place.

Putting the BT OR in instead of the SR102 has fixed the spikes (My Broadband Ping) but speed on the 1x is still showing the same result I.e. Dropping down to 20mb at certain points, you can retest 20 minutes later and get a better result.

Speed of.me and speedtest don't show the same problem (both showing 64mb) but they do not detail how they perform the tests.

Line is clean according to the fibre engineer and he was at the house for an hour testing the line. Sky fibre specialist checked the exchange and at peak they are under 90% utilisation for their back haul.

That only leaves the cabinet but the fibre engineer said they would have got warnings but their aren't any so I am at a complete loss as their is no guarantee that jumping to Pulse8 will improve matters if it s not a congestion issue.

Scratching my head on this one!

Believe we are the only major tester that offers single thread testing now

dslreports can do single also but you have to disable threading in advanced settings on their site to do so which I expect hardly anyone does.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

dslreports can do single also but you have to disable threading in advanced settings on their site to do so which I expect hardly anyone does.

Yeah I found testmy.net which does single threaded, ran that in Chrome and TBB in Edge. Same result so I am now done, latency spikes have gone but the slow down in the evening is still there on single threaded.

Pulse8 will get a call in the morning for a new line.

Just want to thank everybody for their input over the last week on this!

Order placed with Pulse8 for a new line and fibre

good, please let us know if the problem is resolved post migration.