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Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 03-Dec-20 13:40:05
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: risk_reversal] [link to this post]
 
Yep so the only way that TV box can connect to sky broadband over 5GHz is using a sky Q hub or SR203. If you replace the router it will fall back to 2.4GHz which may be quite slow. It will also stop acting as a wireless repeater, which will mean all the devices connecting in will hit the main router, whereas now the mesh will dynamically spread devices between the Q TV Box and Q Router so a single AP isn’t hosting all the devices.

I suspect the issues purely down to the upload, Sky Q does dynamically allocate bandwidth to ensure TV functionality so it has president for the download/upload. You often find Speedtest of around 25 down (on 38 meg fibre) and 55 down (on 76 meg fibre) when the tv box is in use especially when using on demand or downloading. This is deliberate and it’s the mesh system holding back the bandwidth for the TV to always function as expected.

It could be that the ADSL speed is being in part held back to ensure tv functionality, and on ADSL that won’t leave you a whole bunch available for all those students. At the speeds of ADSL I can imagine the connection being quite all over the place as the tv is trying to maintain priority and bandwidth. It’s odd that sky have given them ADSL with sky Q, they usually really push for fibre. In fact only a couple of years back you couldn’t get sky Q installed on ADSL due to the service impact being too large.

EDIT: to put things into perspective a 2 hour TV show on my sky Q box is 10.3GB. If that was being downloaded it would get priority so I’d expect everything else to be slower on ADSL. The box maintains the priority to ensure you can watch it right away, and it continues to download fast enough that the programme doesn’t pause. The box will also download the next episode so it’s ready and waiting, so you would have a 10.3GB download + another for the next episode, so just firing up that one episode would be 20.6GB downloading taking priority.

That’s going to affect your experience for a while, for sure. On fibre there’s enough bandwidth going around that the impact isn’t really noticed in day to day usage.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 03-Dec-20 13:48:53)

Standard User danielhyde
(member) Thu 03-Dec-20 14:17:04
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Yep so the only way that TV box can connect to sky broadband over 5GHz is using a sky Q hub or SR203. If you replace the router it will fall back to 2.4GHz which may be quite slow. It will also stop acting as a wireless repeater, which will mean all the devices connecting in will hit the main router, whereas now the mesh will dynamically spread devices between the Q TV Box and Q Router so a single AP isn’t hosting all the devices.

I suspect the issues purely down to the upload, Sky Q does dynamically allocate bandwidth to ensure TV functionality so it has president for the download/upload. You often find Speedtest of around 25 down (on 38 meg fibre) and 55 down (on 76 meg fibre) when the tv box is in use especially when using on demand or downloading. This is deliberate and it’s the mesh system holding back the bandwidth for the TV to always function as expected.

It could be that the ADSL speed is being in part held back to ensure tv functionality, and on ADSL that won’t leave you a whole bunch available for all those students. At the speeds of ADSL I can imagine the connection being quite all over the place as the tv is trying to maintain priority and bandwidth. It’s odd that sky have given them ADSL with sky Q, they usually really push for fibre. In fact only a couple of years back you couldn’t get sky Q installed on ADSL due to the service impact being too large.

EDIT: to put things into perspective a 2 hour TV show on my sky Q box is 10.3GB. If that was being downloaded it would get priority so I’d expect everything else to be slower on ADSL. The box maintains the priority to ensure you can watch it right away, and it continues to download fast enough that the programme doesn’t pause. The box will also download the next episode so it’s ready and waiting, so you would have a 10.3GB download + another for the next episode, so just firing up that one episode would be 20.6GB downloading taking priority.

That’s going to affect your experience for a while, for sure. On fibre there’s enough bandwidth going around that the impact isn’t really noticed in day to day usage.


That's actually not correct, at my old house where I had Sky Q and used my own router and the Main Sky Q box connected to my 5GHz Wi-Fi with no issues.
The Mini boxes connect directly back to the Main box with their own Wi-Fi that doesn't go through the router.
The issues I had were the Mini boxes were too far away from the Main box to get a reliable connection so I ended up hardwiring them all to the router.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 03-Dec-20 16:51:32
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: danielhyde] [link to this post]
 
Sky Q TV main box does not support 5GHz on devices which are not part of the Sky Q hardware. For instance if I am on BT I can only connect to the 2.4GHz network if using WiFi on the main tv box.

The mesh network (network between the extra boxes) will still use 5GHz over its own wireless network. The main box, will only communicate to the main router over 2.4GHz when sky q routers are not used. All other boxes will still be 5GHz over a link from main tv box to sky q minis. So it would go non sky Q router - main box (2.4GHz only) - mini boxes over 5GHz (using the mesh setup on the main Q TV box).

For that initial link to also be 5GHz it must be setup over WPS on sky hardware.

This is commonly documented, and I have in fact used my own hardware. If this is incorrect I would need to see how you managed this. 5GHz between the sky main tv box and Q mesh, is only activated when using WPS setup on the Q router and Q main TV box. Third party routers require you to use the second option when configuring.


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Standard User risk_reversal
(experienced) Thu 03-Dec-20 21:25:09
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Yep so the only way that TV box can connect to sky broadband over 5GHz is using a sky Q hub or SR203. If you replace the router it will fall back to 2.4GHz which may be quite slow. It will also stop acting as a wireless repeater, which will mean all the devices connecting in will hit the main router, whereas now the mesh will dynamically spread devices between the Q TV Box and Q Router so a single AP isn’t hosting all the devices.

I suspect the issues purely down to the upload, Sky Q does dynamically allocate bandwidth to ensure TV functionality so it has president for the download/upload. You often find Speedtest of around 25 down (on 38 meg fibre) and 55 down (on 76 meg fibre) when the tv box is in use especially when using on demand or downloading. This is deliberate and it’s the mesh system holding back the bandwidth for the TV to always function as expected.

It could be that the ADSL speed is being in part held back to ensure tv functionality, and on ADSL that won’t leave you a whole bunch available for all those students. At the speeds of ADSL I can imagine the connection being quite all over the place as the tv is trying to maintain priority and bandwidth. It’s odd that sky have given them ADSL with sky Q, they usually really push for fibre. In fact only a couple of years back you couldn’t get sky Q installed on ADSL due to the service impact being too large.

EDIT: to put things into perspective a 2 hour TV show on my sky Q box is 10.3GB. If that was being downloaded it would get priority so I’d expect everything else to be slower on ADSL. The box maintains the priority to ensure you can watch it right away, and it continues to download fast enough that the programme doesn’t pause. The box will also download the next episode so it’s ready and waiting, so you would have a 10.3GB download + another for the next episode, so just firing up that one episode would be 20.6GB downloading taking priority.

That’s going to affect your experience for a while, for sure. On fibre there’s enough bandwidth going around that the impact isn’t really noticed in day to day usage.


Many thanks for your reply.

Well, my daughter has informed me that Sky will be upgrading their ADSL broadband connection to a Fibre one in about a week. I did ask which one but she did not know. So at least that should potentially resolve one problem and given your comments I will hold off on replacing the ER110.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Yep so the only way that TV box can connect to sky broadband over 5GHz is using a sky Q hub or SR203. If you replace the router it will fall back to 2.4GHz which may be quite slow. It will also stop acting as a wireless repeater, which will mean all the devices connecting in will hit the main router, whereas now the mesh will dynamically spread devices between the Q TV Box and Q Router so a single AP isn’t hosting all the devices.

I suspect the issues purely down to the upload, Sky Q does dynamically allocate bandwidth to ensure TV functionality so it has president for the download/upload. You often find Speedtest of around 25 down (on 38 meg fibre) and 55 down (on 76 meg fibre) when the tv box is in use especially when using on demand or downloading. This is deliberate and it’s the mesh system holding back the bandwidth for the TV to always function as expected.


Apologies for sounding so dense, my pc aptitude is reasonable as I build all my desktop pcs myself but I am a bit perplexed.

Are you saying that the ES130 is getting its TV feed from the ER110 ie via the broadband wirelessly. When I inspected the ES130 (connected to the telly), it had another cable connected into it which came from outside. I suspected (perhaps mistakenly) that that cable carried the TV signal...

Cheers

Edited by risk_reversal (Thu 03-Dec-20 21:26:10)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Thu 03-Dec-20 21:59:21
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: risk_reversal] [link to this post]
 
Sky only has one fibre variety, they choose back end the most appropriate speed. If they can get full 80 meg they will get it. If they’re predicated around 55, then sky will choose that speed 55/10. They just do it automatically.

The sky Q mesh is a little confusing... Live TV comes from the satellite, to the main Q box. The mini boxes (eg second and third tv in a bedroom) don’t have the satellite feed. Instead they’re just a power plug and box. All live TV will go satellite - main Q box - over WiFi - mini boxes. So yes if you have multi room you can have multiple boxes (up to 4 total) with live tv going via the WiFi at the same time.

Of course, Sky Q isn’t just live TV. There is on demand stuff for most channels, eg I can watch entire box sets of content, I can see like every tv show broadcast recently on TLC, discovery, sky one, MTV, Fox, 4od, ITV etc. All of this content is downloaded and is several GB. It’s not your typical low quality ITVHub stream, you get the full quality type download. It will download it and only allow you to play it if your connections fast enough. Else you have to wait for it to download.

Then sky movies would also be downloadable, the box has Netflix built in, Disney plus and a bunch more.

I find most things broadcast on TV are downloadable, so I find myself missing the live broadcast and watch 75% of things “on demand” which is a download.

Usage on the WiFi gets quite heavy, when you consider I may be downloading a TV show at 10gb, whilst the other boxes are streaming HD/4K over WiFi from the main hub, all using WiFi. That’s quite the challenge to ensure the live TV on the mini boxes isn’t impacted.

Overall with fibre it works well for me.
Standard User risk_reversal
(experienced) Fri 04-Dec-20 03:37:50
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
That is most kind ukhardy07.

So to sum up.

1. The Sky box next to the tell, ES130, receives a tv feed only. If one has Sky mini boxes, the tv feed can be received in other rooms over wifi.

2. The ER110 receives just the broadband.

3. The ES130 and ER110 together create a mesh system

Have I finally understood it!

Cheers

Edited by risk_reversal (Fri 04-Dec-20 03:38:49)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Dec-20 11:04:53
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: risk_reversal] [link to this post]
 
1. The Sky box next to the tell, ES130, receives a tv feed only (yes). It also gets on demand programmes over WiFi e.g. Netlflix, Disney Plus as well as downloadable content (several GB per hour) for channels such as ITV, Channel 4, Sky Cinema, FOX, Sky One, TLC, etc... Basically any catch up.

If one has Sky mini boxes, the tv feed can be received in other rooms over wifi. Yep, all mini boxes are WiFi only even for TV channels

2. The ER110 receives just the broadband. Yep, but it also becomes part of the overall mesh system e.g if you have Mini Boxes, satellite TV could route from ES130 - ER110 - Sky Q Mini Box (it will route however is best wifi signal wise)

3. The ES130 and ER110 together create a mesh system Exactly, and any Q TV boxes, Routers, Sky Q boosters etc

Have I finally understood it!

A word of caution, the new fibre router which may be sent, has issues with DHCP when connecting 15+ devices, if they have issues, they can use the ER110 still until the new box gets a firmware update.

If you fancy reading it, https://www.maravedis-bwa.com/2016/01/28/airties-can... - it is a bit outdated TBH, powerline no longer used at all. But it gives you an idea of the intent of the mesh.

Some cool features are bandsteering and beam forming also. The Q mesh also will block devices connecting into an access point far away, if they have a device closer which will yield a better signal. It will also move wifi users as they walk around the home between any device within the mesh, so they do not get stuck on a a poor signal when a stronger one exists on another mesh device.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 04-Dec-20 11:24:48)

Standard User danielhyde
(member) Fri 04-Dec-20 11:08:15
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: risk_reversal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by risk_reversal:
That is most kind ukhardy07.

So to sum up.

1. The Sky box next to the tell, ES130, receives a tv feed only. If one has Sky mini boxes, the tv feed can be received in other rooms over wifi.

2. The ER110 receives just the broadband.

3. The ES130 and ER110 together create a mesh system

Have I finally understood it!

Cheers


This is a great map of how Sky Q works.
Map

Only the Main box (ES130) connects to the router.
The Mini boxes normally use a mesh Wi-Fi back to the Main box but can use powerline.
Also the Mini boxes act as Wi-Fi repeaters but all traffic is fed back through the Main box
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Dec-20 11:13:40
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: danielhyde] [link to this post]
 
This map is outdated, powerline was removed as it interferes with the same frequency as VDSL2+ on fibre... It caused too many drops and slower speeds, so sky dropped it. 100% WiFi only now.

It also doesn't factor in, if you have Sky broadband, with a Sky broadband router, your router becomes part of the mesh now. If you have broadband with another ISP e.g. TalkTalk or have sky broadband but use your own router (it wont be part of the mesh) and hence connects at 2.4GHz only, so the mesh has 5GHz to itself.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Fri 04-Dec-20 11:14:45)

Standard User danielhyde
(member) Fri 04-Dec-20 11:13:49
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Re: Replacing ER110


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
Sky Q TV main box does not support 5GHz on devices which are not part of the Sky Q hardware. For instance if I am on BT I can only connect to the 2.4GHz network if using WiFi on the main tv box.

The mesh network (network between the extra boxes) will still use 5GHz over its own wireless network. The main box, will only communicate to the main router over 2.4GHz when sky q routers are not used. All other boxes will still be 5GHz over a link from main tv box to sky q minis. So it would go non sky Q router - main box (2.4GHz only) - mini boxes over 5GHz (using the mesh setup on the main Q TV box).

For that initial link to also be 5GHz it must be setup over WPS on sky hardware.

This is commonly documented, and I have in fact used my own hardware. If this is incorrect I would need to see how you managed this. 5GHz between the sky main tv box and Q mesh, is only activated when using WPS setup on the Q router and Q main TV box. Third party routers require you to use the second option when configuring.


Sadly I am unable to replicate this as I no longer have Sky Q as I moved to an area with Virgin Media and it was cheaper and they could install sooner.
My network only ever has a 5GHz SSID visible the 2.4GHz SSID is hidden and only used for smart home devices, also I didn't have Sky broadband either
When the Sky engineer installed it I only provided him with the 5Ghz network and he set it up and did the WPS setup with the Mini boxes.
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