Speed drop since FTTP upgrade

My new FTTP line isn't performing correctly and, even after talking to Sky last night, something isn't right. I had to turn off all wifi and remove all networked items, leaving just the hard wired laptop for the speed tests. The results are below, well below the 100MB speed guarantee.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/but...

I set up regular testing by TestMyNet, which I used when I had a problem with Vodafone. It runs a single thread test every half hour and is showing speeds much higher than the TBB test:

https://testmy.net/stats/?t=u&l=25&z=1&q=Marksfish&f=1

This morning's TBB for comparison:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/16748058356...

And a hard copy of the test results off TMN:

Date format: D M d Y @ g:i a Type Test Size Score Mbps Score MB/s

Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 7:49:59 am UP 18.8 MB 25.69 3.21
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 7:49:47 am DN 39 MB 107.9 13.49
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 7:19:55 am UP 18.7 MB 25.72 3.21
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 7:19:43 am DN 72.2 MB 160.6 20.08
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 6:49:47 am UP 18.1 MB 25.76 3.22
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 6:49:35 am DN 84.4 MB 83.7 10.46
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 6:19:35 am UP 18.4 MB 25.78 3.22
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 6:19:23 am DN 82.4 MB 159.28 19.91
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 5:49:34 am UP 19.2 MB 25.76 3.22
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 5:49:21 am DN 76.9 MB 163.87 20.48
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 5:19:33 am UP 18.8 MB 25.69 3.21
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 5:19:21 am DN 81.2 MB 164.91 20.61
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 4:49:31 am UP 19.1 MB 25.73 3.22
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 4:49:19 am DN 87.6 MB 162.12 20.26
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 4:19:21 am UP 18.9 MB 25.68 3.21
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 4:19:09 am DN 76.7 MB 158.87 19.86
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 3:49:23 am UP 18.9 MB 25.7 3.21
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 3:49:08 am DN 80.7 MB 157.87 19.73
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 3:19:20 am UP 18.1 MB 25.75 3.22
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 3:19:08 am DN 88.3 MB 156.08 19.51
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 2:49:11 am UP 18.9 MB 25.7 3.21
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 2:48:59 am DN 89.4 MB 156.86 19.61
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 2:19:12 am UP 18.8 MB 25.73 3.22
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 2:19:00 am DN 75.3 MB 103.09 12.89
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 1:49:01 am UP 18.6 MB 25.81 3.23
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 1:48:49 am DN 79.8 MB 104.2 13.02
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 1:18:51 am UP 19.3 MB 25.83 3.23
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 1:18:39 am DN 80.8 MB 105.33 13.17
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 12:48:41 am UP 19.2 MB 25.75 3.22
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 12:48:29 am DN 82.3 MB 77.02 9.63
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 12:18:41 am UP 19.3 MB 21.16 2.65
Fri Jan 27 2023 @ 12:18:28 am DN 82.1 MB 76.48 9.56
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 11:28:25 pm UP 19.3 MB 25.7 3.21
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 11:28:13 pm DN 84.9 MB 82.08 10.26
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 10:58:12 pm UP 18.8 MB 25.68 3.21
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 10:58:01 pm DN 83.4 MB 83 10.37
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 10:28:01 pm UP 18.2 MB 25.36 3.17
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 10:27:48 pm DN 86.2 MB 131.84 16.48
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 9:57:52 pm UP 18.9 MB 24.99 3.12
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 9:57:38 pm DN 57.9 MB 107.59 13.45
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 9:27:43 pm UP 18.8 MB 25.48 3.19
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 9:27:31 pm DN 82.2 MB 96.45 12.06
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 8:54:51 pm UP 18.5 MB 25.67 3.21
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 8:54:40 pm DN 84.1 MB 92.79 11.6
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 8:13:28 pm UP 18.9 MB 25.19 3.15
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 8:13:16 pm DN 20.3 MB 57.51 7.19
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 8:05:55 pm UP 18.7 MB 24.82 3.1
Thu Jan 26 2023 @ 8:05:43 pm DN 84.2 MB 90.51 11.31

These are wired tests, so not a wifi issue. I am a bit stumped now.

Thanks

Another 40 minute drop today

Rung Sky, made me reset the router, seems to be the default script. "We don't have any connection information here" was the answer when trying to claim under the 100MB guarantee, "all we can see is it is connected". Should've stayed on FTTC

I am really confused with the conflicting information being given by speed checkers. Sky will only accept any speed claims via their checker, so:

Sky speedtest: https://i.imgur.com/VJQAJZD.png

I have been continuing my regular 30 minute tests on TestMyNet: https://i.imgur.com/Z6BEXNQ.png

And then the TBB test: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/16749024077...

These are all wired tests and there is so much variation. All this since a disconnection earlier in the week, followed by another 2. Different ip addresses given on re- connection, so obviously not an issue with a dodgy ip.

In reply to a post by Discus:

I am really confused with the conflicting information being given by speed checkers.

There are two things being tested, the Sky check is testing your link from home to Sky's network. The other checkers are testing the link from your home through Sky's network on to the internet and into another network, such as Thinkbroadband.

This sort of thing happens with Virgin Media a lot, the speed to the Hub is as purchased, but the speed to other internet sites is slow. No idea on TestMyNet, it may not be able to cope with fast speeds.

As well as Thinkbroadband, use the speedtest.net site, try the Netflix fast.com site (in a private/incognito browser window) and try these:
Virgin media -> https://www.virginmedia.com/broadband/speed-test
AAISP -> https://speedtest.aa.net.uk/

Thanks for taking the time to reply. they are all much of a much really.

AAISP: https://i.imgur.com/76j5JaF.png

Fast: https://i.imgur.com/x3emkpY.png

Virgin: https://i.imgur.com/6lnTku8.png

So someone/ something not quite right here

Do you have anything to test with that isn't your laptop?

It must seem like i'm stalking the replies, i'm not, it's just coincidence I am able to answer so quickly.

I have tried 2 different laptops (both Asus), one W10 and one W11. Neither have a native ethernet port and I have to use a usb/ ethernet adaptor to run the tests. It was working fine until the drop out earlier this week. I have tried a mobile phone which is obviously wireless, but the results appear to be the same:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/16749024077...

I do have a work laptop which I can try as it has a ethernet socket, but would need to go and fetch that.

In reply to a post by Discus:

I have tried 2 different laptops (both Asus), one W10 and one W11. Neither have a native ethernet port and I have to use a usb/ ethernet adaptor to run the tests. It was working fine until the drop out earlier this week. I have tried a mobile phone which is obviously wireless, but the results appear to be the same:

There are sometimes issues with USB/Ethernet adaptors that limit speed, also Windows machines can often have speeds dramatically affectected by non-Microsoft security products. Which the mobile (over WiFi) seems to rule out, unless the phone can't keep up with the speed (or the WiFi has interference/congestion issues).

I do have a work laptop which I can try as it has a ethernet socket, but would need to go and fetch that.

Worth a try as it will likely use different security software and a different make ethernet card to your other laptops.

Are you plugging Ethernet directly into the Sky Hub? Have you tried different Ethernet cables just in case?

So, after,my last post, I checked out the wiring to my hub and found the ethernet cable was into my switch. I moved the Hue lighting off the hub and onto the switch,,and the cable direct to port 1, also changing the cable. the TestMyNet speeds have shown a big difference.

https://i.imgur.com/KMmRskc.png

I don't understand this as Sky support had me turn off all the wireless and remove all ethernet plugs except the test wire, with low results. However, testing with TBB still shows a big difference.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/but...

Will have the work laptop tomorrow, which is a HP, so will try again then.

Work laptop, similar results. Seems multi thread is good, but single thread is rubbish:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/_assets/speedtest/but...

With the greatest respect there appears to be no issue with your full fibre connection between the ONT and the the OLT in the handover exchange. Rather than obsess over the speed your getting why don't you take a step back and say to yourself what exactly can't I do because of this. When I first got full fibre I did test after test to ensure I was getting the correct speed and no packet loss and was never happy but I had to move on otherwise it would make me ill.

PS - Have you setup a BQM for IPv4 and IPv6 as that may show any future outages.

Edited by deleted (Sun 29-Jan-23 10:23:16)

In reply to a post by dect:

With the greatest respect there appears to be no issue with your full fibre connection between the ONT and the the OLT in the handover exchange.

The service is sold at 145 Mbps, and managing around 30 Mbps to the internet.
Perhaps this is time to cancel under 14 day distance-selling?

If my 250 Mbps virgin media managed less than 100 to external sites, I would be kicking up a stink too.

I would suggest the OP contact Sky's chief exec and escalate. My guess is Sky have oversold their internet connection bandwidth. Other ISPs have had this sort of issue in January.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 29-Jan-23 12:20:01)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I would suggest the OP contact Sky's chief exec and escalate.

That is certainly a good suggestion to move this forward.

Can you describe these 40 minute drops in service? Do the ONT lights do anything to indicate a fault during these periods? What does your Sky router report as the problem?

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by dect:

With the greatest respect there appears to be no issue with your full fibre connection between the ONT and the the OLT in the handover exchange.

The service is sold at 145 Mbps, and managing around 30 Mbps to the internet.
Perhaps this is time to cancel under 14 day distance-selling?

It's 14 days from the day the order was placed and not the day service goes live.

Some providers offer over and above this. BT and Virgin do 14 days from the service going live I believe.

No idea about Sky but the distance selling regs generally don't cover any Openreach connection after it has gone live as most connections (and all migrations) take at least 2 weeks to start.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

No idea about Sky but the distance selling regs generally don't cover any Openreach connection after it has gone live as most connections (and all migrations) take at least 2 weeks to start.

Ugh, painful. Then its executive complaints and/or ombudsman, and careful reading of terms agreed to see if there is any loophole to escape over poor performance.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 29-Jan-23 13:53:43)

I don't know what happened on the ONT first time as I wasn't back from work. I seem to recall on the second dropout it stayed green I think. I had 3 green leds power, internet, wifi and a red voice led. The internet should have still be alive, but voice and web connectivity were gone, so could we be thinking faulty router here?

I forgot to take record of the logs when the connection was in fault as I was busy on the phone to the Sky bod, who then had me reset the thing to factory default. If it happens again, I shall remember to take a copy of the log.

I hear what you are saying, and to an extent, I agree. I would be a little more peeved if I was paying full whack for the service instead of the deal I was given. It doesn't directly affect me (except when not working), but I do get it in the neck from other members of the household when trying to do stuff where for a few days, they had got used to doing it a bit quicker!

I have a BQM set up (the spikes are the 30 minute speed test on TestmyNet)

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

I do question how a Sky test can determine I am receiving the full Monty, when there are no stats on the router (unlike the old sync speed, etc on FTTC) for me to reference. I have no way of knowing exactly what is coming in except via speed test. Sky give a 100mb guarantee, but how can that be proven as they will only accept faults using their checker (don't they all?). Support have also told me they can't see what actual speeds I am receiving, as they don't have the capability. The advisor has been very helpful and has called me back twice. He has said there appears to be "something" not quite right, but the back office have said there is no fault.

Most of my speeds are in the same sort of area as they were pre- upgrade, so I kind of object to "uprgrading" to a lower standard of service. I had no issues on the Sky FTTC product I was on before and always got nigh on max sped for the line, so to have this uses so soon after installation is a bit of a ballache.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

If my 250 Mbps virgin media managed less than 100 to external sites, I would be kicking up a stink too.

I would suggest the OP contact Sky's chief exec and escalate. My guess is Sky have oversold their internet connection bandwidth. Other ISPs have had this sort of issue in January.

I had problems like this (obviously to a lesser degree) with Plusnet previously, until capacity was increased at the exchange. I don't think many isp's acknowledge the existence of single thread checkers, as they always send you to a multi thread one. My Sky bod is ringing back on Wednesday/ Thursday, so hopefully things may be a bit clearer then.

In reply to a post by Discus:

I do question how a Sky test can determine I am receiving the full Monty, when there are no stats on the router (unlike the old sync speed, etc on FTTC) for me to reference.

With full fibre (FTTP) there is no sync speed, it actually either works or does not. Similar to Virgin Cable. The FTTP network operator, Openreach in your case, provides a 2.4 Gbps connection to a max of 32 homes, at that full speed, and your ONT reduces the speed your router achieves.

Unlike FTTC/VDSL or ADSL where due to the use of copper wires there was a distance decrease in performance.

The network operator (Openreach) get stats from the ONT, but the Sky router doesn't see any of this. Sky can contact Openreach and ask them to check, but one of the benefits of FTTP is that faults on this side are dramatically lower than on the copper network.

However Openreach only connect you to Sky's data centre, via one of the regional areas. Openreach FTTP probably doesn't use your local exchange, unless its a regional centre.

From there to the internet is Sky's responsibility, and if they have a fault, or a capacity issue, then you get poor performance.

Similar to the days of dial up, you'd dial one ISP and get a modem link at 33.6kbps but you could only download at 8kbps you knew the ISP was broken

Edited by jchamier (Sun 29-Jan-23 16:51:19)

I've had a further 2 dropouts today, Sky say no local outages. I had a look in the logs, but they only seem to start from early this morning, from when the first dropout cam back up:

https://i.imgur.com/NwUWY5E.png

2023-02-02 00:23:35 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-02-02 00:23:38 syslog: TR69: Close ACS Connection
2023-02-02 00:26:09 syslog: Voice Connected
2023-02-02 00:41:09 syslog: Send out NTP request to ntp1.isp.sky.com
2023-02-02 00:41:10 syslog: Received NTP Sync Reply from ntp1.isp.sky.com
2023-02-02 00:41:10 syslog: System time is up to date
2023-02-02 00:51:07 syslog: WAN IPV6 UP
2023-02-02 00:53:51 syslog: No lease renewal received
2023-02-02 00:53:53 syslog: eth3.1 - WAN link DOWN.
2023-02-02 00:53:53 syslog: DHCP lease expired from server. Connection DOWN.
2023-02-02 00:54:14 syslog: Voice IP Connection Down
2023-02-02 00:54:14 syslog: WAN IPV6 DOWN
2023-02-02 00:54:21 syslog: Voice Disconnected
2023-02-02 01:05:00 syslog: WAN IPV6 UP
2023-02-02 01:05:00 syslog: Voice IP Connection Up: :c7c:e164:2900::1/64
2023-02-02 01:05:00 syslog: Connection Up. SNO/MAC/IP/SWVER/IPv6: [D210227C004230/3C457A87C4E0//7.02.0501.R/:c7c:e164:2900::1]
2023-02-02 01:05:03 syslog: Voice Disconnected
2023-02-02 01:05:06 syslog: Voice Connecting
2023-02-02 01:07:07 syslog: Voice Disconnected
2023-02-02 01:12:13 syslog: eth3.1 - WAN link UP.
2023-02-02 01:12:13 syslog: Received valid DHCP lease from server. Connection UP.
2023-02-02 01:12:13 syslog: Connection Up. SNO/MAC/IP/SWVER/IPv6: [D210227C004230/3C457A87C.R/:c7c:e164:2900::1]
2023-02-02 01:12:14 syslog: TR69: Connect to Production ACS
2023-02-02 01:12:14 syslog: TR69: Connection to ACS Complete
2023-02-02 01:12:19 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-02-02 01:12:19 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-02-02 01:12:19 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-02-02 01:12:19 syslog: bind 0.0.0.0 - Address already in use
2023-02-02 01:12:22 syslog: TR69: Close ACS Connection
2023-02-02 01:18:56 syslog: Voice Connected
2023-02-02 01:34:51 syslog: WAN IPV6 UP
2023-02-02 01:39:44 syslog: Lease renewed 3600 ip 90.200
2023-02-02 02:04:51 syslog: WAN IPV6 UP
2023-02-02 02:10:02 syslog: Lease renewed 3600 ip 90.200
2023-02-02 02:34:52 syslog: WAN IPV6 UP
2023-02-02 02:40:39 syslog: Lease renewed 3600 ip 90.200
2023-02-02 02:50:20 syslog: Send out NTP request to ntp1.isp.sky.com
2023-02-02 02:50:21 syslog: Received NTP Sync Reply from ntp1.isp.sky.com
2023-02-02 02:50:21 syslog: System time is up to date

Coincidentally, the Sky person rang again tonight. He said the line is showing no disconnections today and they also say the line is performing correctly, so have closed the case. No point arguing with the customer advisor, but I have asked them to replace the router to see if that is the cause of the problems.

And just in case, a screenshot of the router uptime:

https://i.imgur.com/wt0PSqt.png

Thanks for that. Good to know OR can interrogate the ONT, if required.

I got the new router, same result I gave it a week until escalating to Sky Exec office and had a reply next day. they were very sympathetic and said they would send out a OR engineer as a Sky one wouldn't really understand. Today we received a wireless repeater from Sky, methinks they are not understanding the problem. OR engineer came out and couldn't understand the concept of single thread as his phone was downloading from speedtest.net at full speed, what problem? He then rang India to have the ONT reset. He rang lots of colleagues for advice. Re- spliced the termination to the box on the wall outside. I was then told the Sky router wasn't much cop, especially as you can't see the connection stats! He did experience my slowdown while here, but went back to the speedtest.net site and said "all is good". His parting words were get a decent router (Nighthawk was mentioned) and tell Sky to get their equipment sorted out. He did say that the Sandy exchange is not where the fibre terminates, but Shefford, maybe explains why I had no issues with FTTC supplied locally?

Excec office are ringing again tonight for an update on my experience. Not really sure what to say! I think i'm one of those "a little bit of knowledge is dangerous" people.

In reply to a post by Discus:

He did say that the Sandy exchange is not where the fibre terminates, but Shefford, maybe explains why I had no issues with FTTC supplied locally?

It's not that.
Your FTTC cabinet connects back via fibre to the exact same exchange as your FTTP comes from.
All Openreach GEA products (FTTC & FTTP) comes from larger Head-End exchanges. This often isn't the local exchange where your phone line and ADSL comes from.

I wasn't aware of that, thank you. Every day is a school day

Was this ever resolved?

Experiencing something similar on VF and was thinking of moving to Sky.

Thanks

I've had a couple of Sky routers since and a couple of Sky and OR engineers, but it still happens. The last couple of weeks has been terrible with a dropout daily (no set time though), although I am currently in hour 72 with no drops!

My issue is poor download speeds, uploads are at the line speed or better (sold as 70 but its 75)

No drop outs just speed behaving erratically and not during busy times either.

Thanks