Talk Talk now taking direct debits even earlier...

I am rapidly becoming ticked off with talk talk, although the service has been good. Good speeds with a good connection their customer service is a shambles. They have now decided that they need our money earlier and have from what i can see moved everyones direct debit dates forward by 7 days. There is outrage on their forums and i for one have been affected. I deliberatley asked for my dd date to be at the end of the month so i could make sure i had plenty of time from notification through my bill to ensure money will be there. It seems they have changed the goal posts for their own benefit and to the detriment of their customers.

Before anyone says it i realise they can do this as it's within their T & C's but still i don't see what could have happened for them to warrant this change except greed.

Edited by deleted (Wed 23-Mar-11 08:07:15)

It is called cashflow maximisation.

I am winding up an estate for a relative who died; they tell me that it will take 10 weeks to refund the £5.19 credit left on the account. This is of course why I personally would never touch this bunch of shysters wtth a barge pole.

I am begining to understand where you are coming from. Up until now though i do have to admit the service has been good. No disconnects and a connection of 20meg. But doing things like this for no reason except greed leaves alot to be desired.

In reply to a post by aj2703:

I am begining to understand where you are coming from. Up until now though i do have to admit the service has been good. No disconnects and a connection of 20meg. But doing things like this for no reason except greed leaves alot to be desired.

I don't see what the issue is here. All this means is that just for March your DD will be taken out 7 days earlier; in subsequent months your payment date will remain the same. Its not as if talktalk will be shifting the payment date 7 days earlier every month. Also they did inform users by email in February of this change so plenty of notice was given to help wth budgeting.

Is it just this month..? Why would they just do it this month then shift it back.? Does not make sense at all. No-one has mentioned in the forums that i have seen.

You where warned about there customer services , there are no surprises there and as you say they are operating with in the terms of the direct debit .

So you can sound off but nothing will change as TalkTalk have done nothing wrong , not likely to see this on watchdog .

In reply to a post by aj2703:

Is it just this month..? Why would they just do it this month then shift it back.? Does not make sense at all. No-one has mentioned in the forums that i have seen.

You misunderstood me. I meant that for the month of March, your DD will be taken around 23 days from the last DD; hardly a major problem to get your knickers in a twist over. However your April and subsequent months DD will be 30 days from your March DD date. I was sent an email In February informing me of these changes.

But what is your bill date? It is possible that they were taking the DD well after the bill date and now they have moved it closer.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

But what is your bill date? It is possible that they were taking the DD well after the bill date and now they have moved it closer.

That's right mate, previously TalkTalk were taking the DDs 14 days after your bill date; now they're taking them 7 days after the billing date. So in my case I get billed on the 17th and DD used to be taken out at the end of the month, now it will be taken out around 24-25th of each month. Hardly end of the world is it?!

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

That's right mate, previously TalkTalk were taking the DDs 14 days after your bill date; now they're taking them 7 days after the billing date.

Ah, right m8! Not a problem then. Orange did something similar last year. They moved from taking payment about 2 weeks after billing date to on the billing date; but as I pay by CC I'm still paying in arrears .

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

In reply to a post by aj2703:

Is it just this month..? Why would they just do it this month then shift it back.? Does not make sense at all. No-one has mentioned in the forums that i have seen.

You misunderstood me. I meant that for the month of March, your DD will be taken around 23 days from the last DD; hardly a major problem to get your knickers in a twist over. However your April and subsequent months DD will be 30 days from your March DD date. I was sent an email In February informing me of these changes.

Actually I think it is very irresponsible of TT to move the DD date backwards. There are many people who are currently suffering cash flow problems. I wonder how many people have been put in the red by this move? I doubt if TT will reimburse any customers bank charges.

Which is wrong under The Direct Debit Guarantee in that the payee must give at least 10 working days notice from receiving the bill. If enough people complain then TT could get their Service User Number rescinded.

In reply to a post by kamelion:

Which is wrong under The Direct Debit Guarantee in that the payee must give at least 10 working days notice from receiving the bill. If enough people complain then TT could get their Service User Number rescinded.

Ermmmm....TalkTalk did give >10 days notice about their DD date changing. They informed their customers in February informing them that their March DD will be taken 7 days after the billing date, not 14 days as before.

http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/DirectDebitExplain...

Direct Debit Guarantee

The Guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that accept instruction to pay Direct Debits
If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. If you request the organisation to collect a payment, confirmation of the amount and date will be given to you at the time of the request
If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society.
If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to
You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by simply contacting your bank or building society. Written confirmation may be required. Please also notify the organisation.

You aren't reading it right. They have to give 10 working days notice after the BILL is produced not ten days notice that they are going to take money early. This forms part of the direct debit guarantee and is there to ensure that the payer has time to query the amount.

Agree with baby_frogmella! You're the one not reading it right.

The Direct Debit Guarantee has nothing to do with BILLing and, in fact, never mentions it. All it says is that for any change 10 days notice must be given before the payment concerned is taken.

If there are any changes to the amount, date or frequency of your Direct Debit the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed.

On your argument a Utility co. can never make any changes to your DDs after 10 days beyond a quarterly bill and they have to wait 3 months to the next bill for the opportunity to make a change to your DD. My Water Board has just sent me notice of increase of my DD early next month and I won't get the next corresponding bill till May. I've no doubt that are acting lawfully.

I phrased it wrong. They can't act on the DD until at least 10 working days after the issue of the bill. Hope that is clearer.

In reply to a post by kamelion:

I phrased it wrong. They can't act on the DD until at least 10 working days after the issue of the bill. Hope that is clearer.

In the DD guarantee where does it say that TalkTalk have to wait 10 working days after billing date?

Forget it! You are reading words into it that don't exist!

Remember that DDs were designed for paying where bills are infrequent, like quarterly utility bills.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 24-Mar-11 10:52:26)

I can totally understand how this can advsersely affect people who are right on the limit in terms of finances. In my younger years, I usually had lots of month left at the end of the money. In defence of the company though the service is a paid for service from a business, the business has needs and obligations to meet too. In this case those on high have deemed that we reduce the lead time between bill and payment dates.

Ady

That is a simplified "plain english" version. There are two types of direct debit - fixed and variable. Variable direct debits require the payee to give the payer at least 10 working days notice of the amount they intend to collect. All new direct debits are variable and come under these rules.

With a variable direct debit the originator must provide enough advance notice of the amounts and dates of payment, or any changes to them, in sufficient time to allow the customer to raise any queries prior to payment. This is defined as at least ten working days from receiving the notification. All new direct debits must be variable and in practice the vast majority of existing direct debits are in variable format.

In reply to a post by kamelion:

With a variable direct debit the originator must provide enough advance notice of the amounts and dates of payment, or any changes to them, in sufficient time to allow the customer to raise any queries prior to payment. This is defined as at least ten working days from receiving the notification. All new direct debits must be variable and in practice the vast majority of existing direct debits are in variable format.

I've highlighted the important words. The notification is not the billing, it is the notice of the intent to change the collection date.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by kamelion:

With a variable direct debit the originator must provide enough advance notice of the amounts and dates of payment, or any changes to them, in sufficient time to allow the customer to raise any queries prior to payment. This is defined as at least ten working days from receiving the notification. All new direct debits must be variable and in practice the vast majority of existing direct debits are in variable format.

I've highlighted the important words. The notification is not the billing, it is the notice of the intent to change the collection date.

Its not just about the notice of intent to change the collection date. Its also about the amount. The 10 days is also there to give time to query the bill/invoice. It quite clearly states so in the paragraph that has been posted, but which you appear to have overlooked.

With a variable direct debit the originator must provide enough advance notice of the amounts and dates of payment, or any changes to them, in sufficient time to allow the customer to raise any queries prior to payment.

Edited by deleted (Thu 24-Mar-11 18:37:08)

In reply to a post by sean_r:

Its not just about the notice of intent to change the collection date. Its also about the amount. The 10 days is also there to give time to query the bill/invoice. It quite clearly states so in the paragraph that has been posted, but which you appear to have overlooked.

With a variable direct debit the originator must provide enough advance notice of the amounts and dates of payment, or any changes to them, in sufficient time to allow the customer to raise any queries prior to payment.

Has the amount changed?

The amount can and does change. Even though I'm on their Anytime tarif, some calls are still chargable on top of that, calls to 0870, 0871, mobiles, international. Just checked my 3 previous bills and they are different amounts.

In reply to a post by sean_r:

The amount can and does change. Even though I'm on their Anytime tarif, some calls are still chargable on top of that, calls to 0870, 0871, mobiles, international. Just checked my 3 previous bills and they are different amounts.

Look you're wrong, you're barking up the wrong tree. If you think it's incorrect, ask for the payment to be refunded under the direct-debit guarantee. I guarantee you'll find out who's right after that.

Yes there is that option to be refunded, it does change the point that people are allowed 10 days in which to query their bill.

With a variable direct debit the originator must provide enough advance notice of the amounts and dates of payment, or any changes to them, in sufficient time to allow the customer to raise any queries prior to payment. This is defined as at least ten working days from receiving the notification. All new direct debits must be variable and in practice the vast majority of existing direct debits are in variable format. http://www.financevictims.co.uk/direct-debits/offici...

In reply to a post by sean_r:

Yes there is that option to be refunded, it does change the point that people are allowed 10 days in which to query their bill.

With a variable direct debit the originator must provide enough advance notice of the amounts and dates of payment, or any changes to them, in sufficient time to allow the customer to raise any queries prior to payment. This is defined as at least ten working days from receiving the notification. All new direct debits must be variable and in practice the vast majority of existing direct debits are in variable format. http://www.financevictims.co.uk/direct-debits/offici...

Is that defined by the banks, or by "financevictims" ?

Copied from the bacs website http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocu...

What if changes are needed?
If either the amount or the payment date changes, the company
concerned has to notify you in advance (normally ten working
days) of your account being debited. This gives you plenty of
time to get in touch with them if necessary.

So yes, it is defined by the banks

The above link is supplied by the bacs website.

Edited by deleted (Thu 24-Mar-11 20:12:06)

One of the problems with DD is that a simple process is completely misunderstood by almost everyone. (mind you the CC version is worse, but hay-hoo).
The bank will make an immediate refund if a error is made - it says in plain english.
My bank said contact the originator as nuffin to do with them. The originator said the bank should sort it.
No mention anywhere about who made whatever error so it's pot luck.

I'm with AOL and they told me they sent an e-mail about a price change. I looked and looked and it never appeared. After a lot of questions, 'We posted the change on the tariff section of the web-site' they said.
Go on, how many check they ISP's web site prices every week? Thought so!

I avoid allowing organisations to dip into my bank account as much as possible. I even tried asking my local Carphone Warehouse shop if I could pay the bill there. Apparently a bit like BT - nuffin to do with us, go away.

In reply to a post by sean_r:

The amount can and does change. Even though I'm on their Anytime tariff, some calls are still chargeable on top of that, calls to 0870, 0871, mobiles, international. Just checked my 3 previous bills and they are different amounts.

Then don't you pay a fixed (subject to notice of change) DD based on estimates, just like BT does? Or are you expected to pay off each bill in full?

No its like a mobile phone bill. Even though you have a contract that says you get X number of minutes and X number of texts you still get charged for non inclusive calls every month in arrears

As Kamelion says, you have your normal package charge @ x amount plus extras that are not included within the package. This could also include (from what I gather), engineers charges passed on from BT. looking at the TT forum cost seems to be £99+. No chance to query it and a hole in your bank account.

And you have to pay the whole (variable) bill in the next DD?

If so, then I agree that you have a point, only in this case where the bill varies month-by-month. With this new timescale, you only get 7 calendar days notice, in the form of the bill, of the variable amount to be charged in the next DD.

However, remember, the DD Guarantee does say "the organisation will notify you (normally 10 working days) in advance of your account being debited ".

Another part of the problem appears to be the Email notification, that the bill is ready for viewing. This appears to be sent out 4 days after the bill has been raised, so unless you're continually checking your TT account, you're down to 3 days. I suspect that the email notification is sent out at the same time that TT request payment through the DD system.

Hi new to this forum ,and need help. Talk talk has just taken a second payment this month on the 29th after already having a payment on the 2nd. This has left me in the red in the bank with no authorised overdraft so i gotta go have time off work to go and put some BORROWED MONEY back into my account to put it back in the black. I had an embarrassing visit to supermarket had to put food back cos card was declined. Tried phoneing them but no luck as with many other people. Read somewhere on here they sent out emails notifying taking money earlier from march but i had no such email!! . I am also a previous F2S customer who notified me that i did not need to do anything, my DD amount and frequency would not change neither would my terms and contract. I am now broke because of this with 2 days to go till payday. Any ideas on how to sort this out as phoneing is ****. I really need to to speak to a human about this. Also will my payment come out on the 29 th of every month now, if so that means they will have had 3 payments in 8 weeks. THAT IS THEFT ISNT IT??

Have a look at this thread on the TT forum
http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/showthread.php...

Sadly you are not the only affected by this.

The notification about the change of payment dates is at the bottom of the email that you would have got saying that your bill is ready for viewing, assuming that you are on online billing.

We�d like to make you aware that we�re changing our bill payment terms. From March 2011 onwards your monthly Direct Debit payment will be taken 7 days after your bill is produced. There�s nothing you need to do, we will continue to collect payment from you automatically. However, as this is a change to the day we collect your payment you may wish to check your bank account to ensure there are enough funds to cover your future payments.

Its not in bold as some people have said on the TT forum.

Interestingly it states that payment will be taken 7 days after the bill is produced. but it appears its taking 4 days for the notification email to sent, so unless you log into your account daily to see if the bill has been raised, then you're only getting 3 days (including the day you get the email), notice before the money is taken.

Well apparently it is true they have changed the number of days in which they take the direct debit but refuse to change you billing date. They changed mine to the 30th of the month but I don't get paid to the next day so it made me go overdrawn.

They must have been well aware of what would happen when they did this. So if this is there level of customer services they know where they can shove it...I'm off...

The notification period from bill to collection of a DD is normally 10 days but http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/DirectDebit/Pa...

suggests it can be different, so time for people to dig out their original Direct Debit agreeement. If people believe the rules have been broken then best to take up and use the guarantee via the bank, enough people do that the banks will have a word with TalkTalk

Spoke with TalkTalk this week after they sent me an email on the 16th stating my bill was ready and tried to take money out on the 18th, thats not 7 days I cried and it cost me a failed direct debit charge. They are refunding the money thank goodness but the same thing is going to happen next month. My payment normally goes out on the 28th of each month as originally set up, so they have tried to take money 10 days earlier. Sent 2 emails to TALKTALK and getting nowhere fast. They say payment should be after the bill is created which was on the 11th, so why does it take 5 days to send me a bill. The problem is I can't do anything about it except to cancel the direct debit, which I have just done. Speed is also [censored], 3.5mb down and 0.16mb up and for £15/ month.

Hi i phoned talk talk ,finally got thru to a human instead of that stupid menu system, calmly got irate and told them what happened. They have moved my payment date to the 5th of every month apologised twice for the inconvenience promised to repay any bank charges i might accru over the next month ,providing i show them proof which is understandable. They agreed with me that i shouldnt have had 2 payments going out in the same month. My next payment is now on April 5th which ever day that falls on if its a weekend itll be the nearest working day to it which is how all my other DDs work so i am now waiting to see if they stick to it. I think all this aggro over their latest decisions has kicked em in the *** and ofcom may have got on their case . I put the phone down a little frustrated that i didnt have an argument but what the hell i think it has got sorted , will let this place know if they dont stick to it.

Good to hear that the CS staff assisted you and glad you didn't have to get angry to get a result.