Anything left to try?

Hi all,

I've been having problems with my BT Broadband connection for a long time but it reached it's peak mid May where I've concentrated on trying to get this resolved with BT tech support ever since.
I've been suffering from numerous disconnections and almost immediate reconnections. This can happen several times a day and because I'm on MAX, my speed is never at a stable rate.

Details of setup -
Homehub v2 plugged directly into the master socket, which has the ADSL faceplate. No other house phones wired up.

I've called BT to report the problem and I've had 3 Openreach engineers out so far.
The 1st engineer tested the line from the socket and said that there was no fault (no surprise as it comes and goes) and that the problem may be at the exchange. He asked me to log the fault again and went. Spent about 10 mins on the job.
The 2nd engineer replaced the drop cable as there was a BT joint underneath the eve of my roof. Still disconnections afterwards.
The 3rd engineer changed my connection to another pair from the 'green box' to the exchange. If anything, the disconnections are more frequent.

I've had a 'new' HomeHub delivered this morning (I say new but it already had a 'btclick' username in the config so get the feeling it wasn't new) and although this appeared to be ok for a while, it disconnected again and when looking at the stats, the downstream SNR which is usually 14 - 15db was 28.5db!
Called BT and they stated that the line was fine...

As mentioned, as I'm on MAX, my speed varies drastically due to my IP Profile changing. At it's highest it's been 4000kbps, at it's lowest 500kbps, averaging at 2500kbps.

Unfortunately, I really don't know what else to try. I've replaced faceplates, used filters where required, tried 3 different makes of router...
The central heating has been off for weeks so this can't be causing the problem. The disconnections happen through the day and night so doesn't appear to be a pattern...
I've been told by the engineers that I'm not that far from the enchange, being about 3K (not 100% sure).

Just for completeness, I'll copy and paste my current stats.

ADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 0:43:17
Downstream 3,136 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps

ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up) 15.3 dB / 24.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 46.0 dB / 31.0 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 19.2 dBm / 12.1 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 89 / 2147480001
HEC Errors (Down/Up) 57 / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 59

If someone that spared the time to read through all of this could advise in some way it would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance..

Migrate to AAISP. They will fix any problems.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Migrate to AAISP. They will fix any problems.

Migrating is out of the question at the moment as I have 7 months left on my 12 month contract with BT.
This brings about another question. If I was in a position to change providers, would I even be any better off since I'd be still using a BT line etc...

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Migrating is out of the question at the moment as I have 7 months left on my 12 month contract with BT.

If it doesn't work, they will have to let you out of the contract early.

This brings about another question. If I was in a position to change providers, would I even be any better off since I'd be still using a BT line etc...

AAISP will fix it.

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Homehub v2 plugged directly into the master socket, which has the ADSL faceplate. No other house phones wired up.

Try it plugged into the test socket underneath the faceplate.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Homehub v2 plugged directly into the master socket, which has the ADSL faceplate. No other house phones wired up.

Try it plugged into the test socket underneath the faceplate.

Tried this during my tests to no avail, unfortunately.

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Tried this during my tests to no avail, unfortunately.

Sorry, you mean it disconnected just the same?

Batboy - sorry, but I can't see the point of changing suppliers whilst there is an unknown fault on the system.

All you are doing is introducing another variable. And how can you be so sure that AAISP will fix a problem when no one seems to know what the problem is ??

What about the time remaining on the BT contract ?? And if you go to a new supplier with a known fault, why would they agree to terminate at no cost - it's hardly their fault.

And FWIW - I had a problem with random disconnections, and profiled speed drops. Turned out it was my house phone wiring, I had to physically disconnect the wiring - even tho' no phones were in use. Would an new ISP have changed that problem ??

Edited by deleted (Tue 16-Jun-09 19:53:55)

In reply to a post by eebdsirhc:

Batboy - sorry, but I can't see the point of changing suppliers whilst there is an unknown fault on the system.

All you are doing is introducing another variable. And how can you be so sure that AAISP will fix a problem when no one seems to know what the problem is ??

What about the time remaining on the BT contract ?? And if you go to a new supplier with a known fault, why would they agree to terminate at no cost - it's hardly their fault.

And FWIW - I had a problem with random disconnections, and profiled speed drops. Turned out it was my house phone wiring, I had to physically disconnect the wiring - even tho' no phones were in use. Would an new ISP have solved that problem ??

http://www.aaisp.net.uk/broadband-trial.html

And if the fault isn't the line ????

In reply to a post by eebdsirhc:

And FWIW - I had a problem with random disconnections, and profiled speed drops. Turned out it was my house phone wiring, I had to physically disconnect the wiring - even tho' no phones were in use.

Thanks for the information. As it currently stands, the master socket is the only socket wired in the house. I removed all extensions completely.

As for transferring to another ISP, this is out of the question at the moment. I'm tied to a contract and cannot cancel with no costs until BT state that they cannot help me any further.

Batboy - Plugging into the test socket still had disconnections.

Edited by Fantasmo (Tue 16-Jun-09 20:00:08)

Latency type Fast

ask them to turn interleaving on. It is normally standard on BT Retail.

Interleaving was turned on originally but was changed to fast to try and help.
I've called the cancellations department but they won't waive the cost of my outstanding months until the tech department state so in my notes. I think this will be harder than I hoped.

Interleaving was turned on originally but was changed to fast to try and help.

No chance of that working, it's an error correcting method that can only help.

Post deleted by jeffbb

Hi

With a 46db attenuation you should connect at just under 5800Kbps giving you a profile of 5000Kbps. That is with a default 6db target Snr. Your target looks as if it is now 15db. That indicates that you had some noise excursions or some instabilities problem . the increased Target SNR is possibly costing you about 2500 Kbps +. The calculated line length is approx 3.3 Km. It looks as if your line has never reached its full potential even at its best. . The first thing is to be 100% sure your wiring is ok . I know that you have connected to the Master socket, can you look at this link and see if there is anything there that might help.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm

The other thing is if your router is compatible. routerstats is a valuable application in tracking problems ,using graphs over a long time span . see this link
http://vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm

As Yarwell says interleave could NOT cause your problem. if anything it could help.If you are having intermittent noisy line problems generating lots of errors .Then with interleave on would stop these errors .

Regards jeff

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for your response.
I'd love to have a profile of 5000kbps but due to the disconnections at the moment I doubt I'd ever get that high!
Just over 3Km is about right if I remember correctly.
The last engineer stated that the signal is 8MB when it leaves the exchange but by the time it hits the green box down the road, the signal deteriorates to 3 - 3.5MB. He said that from the green box to my house there is no signal loss and that the SNR was the same.
I will check the wiring again but assume that when the 2nd engineer came out and replaced the drop wire the wiring would be sound. I'll double check tonight.
I had also ran RouterStats with an old Netgear router last Sunday and found that there was a period of SNR fluctuation and then connection drop but I'd have long periods of completely stable SNR. There just appears to be no pattern at all.

I called BT again last night and they have arranged for yet another Openreach engineer to come to my house, presumably to ask the same questions and run the same tests. I did ask them to change me back to Interleave but they said the engineer should be able to do this for me.

Edited by Fantasmo (Thu 18-Jun-09 09:23:19)

hi
Quote : but by the time it hits the green box down the road, the signal deteriorates to 3 - 3.5MB

The drop in synch speed is governed by the attenuation which is dependant on the distance from the EXCHANGE .Obviously if there are other problems like bad joints or in some cases aluminium cables rather than copper this will have a detrimental effect on the attenuation and therefore the synch speed . Target snr will also affect your synch speed .
See this link for a bit more info
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php
regards Jeff

Edited by deleted (Thu 18-Jun-09 11:04:41)

Your SNR is 24 which means its not good. Your getting 3.5mbps sync rate because of this, if you request BT to lets say, half it, then you will see close to if not full sync speed and data rates of 7mbps.

Getting them to do that though is quite dificult.

Any advise of what I should say to the engineer when he visits on Sat?

My main focus at the moment is trying to obtain a stable connection. A stable connection would hopefully bring higher connection rates but my main problem is seemingly random disconnections and the problems this brings.

Just posting updated stats. Not too bad an uptime at the moment -

ADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 14:40:22
Downstream 2,816 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps

ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up) 14.8 dB / 24.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 46.0 dB / 31.0 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 18.1 dBm / 12.3 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 0
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 0 / 0
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 332 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 80

Edited by Fantasmo (Thu 18-Jun-09 12:45:51)

I've just thought of something.
I have a wireless house alarm. This isn't plugged into a phone line and the main alarm unit is at the opposite side of the house.
Could this be blasting out a wireless signal and taking out my ADSL line? Is this possible?
I ask this because I came home from work, used a wireless key fob to turn off the alarm, made myself a drink and logged into my computer to find that the ADSL line had gone down 17 minutes before checking. The time is cutting it fine...

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

I've just thought of something.
I have a wireless house alarm. This isn't plugged into a phone line and the main alarm unit is at the opposite side of the house.
Could this be blasting out a wireless signal and taking out my ADSL line? Is this possible?
I ask this because I came home from work, used a wireless key fob to turn off the alarm, made myself a drink and logged into my computer to find that the ADSL line had gone down 17 minutes before checking. The time is cutting it fine...

Yes, and if you were monitoring your ADSL SNR margin over time using Routerstats you could probably discover a pattern. Coupled with using a portable radio to hear the interference, you could determine where it's coming from.

But you said everything at home was fine.....

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

But you said everything at home was fine.....

Hence my "I've just thought of something"...

I've set and disarmed the alarm to no effect on the ADSL connection. The alarm is set every time we leave the house and since my connection will remain for up to a couple of days I don't think this is the culprit.

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Hence my "I've just thought of something"...

I've set and disarmed the alarm to no effect on the ADSL connection. The alarm is set every time we leave the house and since my connection will remain for up to a couple of days I don't think this is the culprit.

What about "monitoring your ADSL SNR margin over time using Routerstats" and "using a portable radio to hear the interference"?

I used Routerstats for most of a day. That isn't over time I know, but did show 2 disconnections and no immediately obvious cause. I'm not prepared to leave my computer on for over a week.
I do not have access to a portable radio at the moment so cannot try that method although I will try and get my hands on one.

Well, a couple of days and nights should do it. You really want to see if it does it at regular intervals over a 24-48 hour period, if it's a gradual decline or an instantaneous loss, and if it's different between certain periods like during the day and during the night.

I thought you'd done all this stuff and were pretty much at the stage of having a line fault as the remaining option.

Even so, AAISP will be able to fix it or at least track it down. You just need to be able to extricate yourself from the BT contract by getting them to admit you're paying for something that doesn't work.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Well, a couple of days and nights should do it. You really want to see if it does it at regular intervals over a 24-48 hour period, if it's a gradual decline or an instantaneous loss, and if it's different between certain periods like during the day and during the night.

I thought you'd done all this stuff and were pretty much at the stage of having a line fault as the remaining option.

Even so, AAISP will be able to fix it or at least track it down. You just need to be able to extricate yourself from the BT contract by getting them to admit you're paying for something that doesn't work.

I will plug my netgear router back in and start Routerstats up and see what I get until Sat morning.
I will try and get a radio tonight and give that a shot.
I think I've pretty much done everything I thought of at my end and the alarm was something that just sprung to mind when I posted before. I've checked the alarm logs and the disconnection times do no match up but that isn't to say it isn't doing a broadcast or something now and again.
Thanks for your help so far. I need an engineer to basically say they cannot help any further before I can break my contract without payment. It's £150+ I can't afford.

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

I need an engineer to basically say they cannot help any further before I can break my contract without payment. It's £150+ I can't afford.

Yes, I sympathise. At least you know what to ask the engineer when you see him

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

I need an engineer to basically say they cannot help any further before I can break my contract without payment. It's £150+ I can't afford.

Yes, I sympathise. At least you know what to ask the engineer when you see him

lol yep
Well, Routerstats is up and running with my old DG834G.
Again, thanks for your help.

Hi
Quote Your SNR is 24 which means its not good

that is quite normal for the up line . synch at Upstream 448 Kbps which is normal the high SNR margin just means there is plenty of elbow room
The downline is 14.8 which means he probably has a target SNR of 15 db.Caused by previous problems /disconnections .
Regards jeff

Well I've managed to get a portable AM radio and have tuned it inbetween stations (lots of hiss but no station audible) and wandered around the house. The TV downstairs gave off a clicking noise, a louder noise near the wireless alarm box and also a noise with the TV in the same room as the router.
Turning off the TV's at the wall has stopped any noise but has no obvious effect on my SNR (if it should) but the alarm is going to be tricky to turn off.
Not sure if I'm doing the radio correctly as I'm getting feedback from pretty much everything! lol

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Not sure if I'm doing the radio correctly as I'm getting feedback from pretty much everything! lol

DMT and indeed Routerstats, will show you the bit loadings per tone on a graph.
The graph may show certain dropouts which can be tied to a radio frequency. You can tune the radio in to those frequencies and see what's broadcasting...

I'm running with RouterStats Lite at the moment.
I've not had any drop outs as yet, just a non-fluctuating period which seems to get progressivly worse.
I don't think the lite version shows the bit loadings. Will have to look into that another time.

Ahh indeed, yeah thats fine for upstream. With it being 15db. about 3mbps is being robbed probably due to disconnects.

Well I've had RouterStats running all night and it hasn't diconnected yet although from 21:30 to 03:30 the SNR is erratic. 03:30 onwards the SNR has been completely stable with nothing going on in the house (i.e. fast asleep).
Will leave to monitor for rest of day.

Those times tie in with the Sun. The E-layer rises at night and reflects radio from further away, increasing noise.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hut...

London, United Kingdom
Sunrise: 4:42am
Sunset: 9:20pm

Edited by deleted (Fri 19-Jun-09 08:38:47)

Your times are one hour slow

take away an hour, add an hour.

You've got the wrong layer - it's the D layer that reflects HF signals. The action of the Sun on this layer isn't instantaneous, so there is no dramatic changes between day and night - the effect is gradual.

I've left my computer on at home to monitor the connection and am using LogMeIn to see the log from work (don't tell the boss!).

What I've found is the following so far -
18/06/09 18:30 to 20:30 - Pretty stable SNR at 11db
20:30 to 03:35 - High fluctuating SNR between 13db and 6db
03:35 to 08:15 - Flat 11db. No movement
08:15 to present - Predominantly between 13db and 11db. 1 spike to 7db

All electrical appliances near router have been unplugged and no one in house since 09:30.
I have called the house as a test and see no sudden spikes relating to phone call. I'm convinced the problem is an external interference now.

The sun rises at the back of the house and sets at the front. The cable and pole is at front of house.

To me, it looks like you're suffering with increased radio noise at night, caused by whatever layers in the atmosphere. The standard cure for this is to remove the ringwire and ensure you have shielded wiring as much as possible, and generally sort out your phone wiring.

That spike during the day looks like another instance of radio noise, although cause by something else. It could also be a line fault - AAISP would help.

In order to understand what's going on, you really need to look at the tone graphs mentioned earlier.

However, it's safe to say with a lower SNR margin, these events would cause disconnections.

OK, first disconnection since reporting.
I'll copy a bit of the log -

Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:08:57, Noise Margin= 9, Sync Speed= 3072
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:09:12, Noise Margin= 8, Sync Speed= 3072
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:09:27, Noise Margin= 9, Sync Speed= 3072
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:09:42, Noise Margin= 6, Sync Speed= 3072
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:09:57, Noise Margin= 6, Sync Speed= 3072
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:10:12, Noise Margin= 2147483645, Sync Speed= 3072
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:10:27, Noise Margin= 0, Sync Speed= 0
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:10:42, Noise Margin= 15, Sync Speed= 2848
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:10:57, Noise Margin= 15, Sync Speed= 2848
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:11:12, Noise Margin= 15, Sync Speed= 2848
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:11:27, Noise Margin= 15, Sync Speed= 2848
Fri 19 Jun 2009 12:11:42, Noise Margin= 15, Sync Speed= 2848

This is what I've generally noticed. A decline and disconnection and then when it reconnects I have a better SNR for a while afterwards.

edit - well, after a bit of fluctuation since the disconnection, I now have quite a stable SNR of 2147483645!

Edited by Fantasmo (Fri 19-Jun-09 12:31:46)

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

This is what I've generally noticed. A decline and disconnection and then when it reconnects I have a better SNR for a while afterwards.

That's the event you have to find, alright. You need to see if they are periodic or otherwise related to anything you can fix, like a vacuum cleaner, central heating pump, fridge, or if it's an external line fault. The frequencies may help.

The improved SNR is just a function of the BT system and resyncing in general.

edit: 2147483645 is pretty close to -1 !

Edited by deleted (Fri 19-Jun-09 12:32:49)

10 minutes later and I'm still with the 10 digit SNR.
Could the interference still be 'broadcasting' or that the low SNR has knocked my Netgear router out of touch and it's got confused. I'm still connected...

edit - Just realised, 2147483645 is pretty much the number that the HomeHub v2 reports as being my upstream CRC constantly.

further edit - Another disconnection and now my SNR is back up to ~12db

Edited by Fantasmo (Fri 19-Jun-09 13:10:33)

I'd say the interference was still broadcasting and it was on for about an hour. Wonder what it was?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I'd say the interference was still broadcasting and it was on for about an hour. Wonder what it was?

Please tell me!
The SNR is still a bit erratic. Is there something that the engineer can plug into the line between exchange and green box DSLAM(?) and monitor it like I'm doing to see if the problem is between those 2 places?

edit - last update for a while I think. Another disconnection, SNR now up to 22db and my connection speed has dropped to 288kbps...

Edited by Fantasmo (Fri 19-Jun-09 13:29:56)

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

The SNR is still a bit erratic. Is there something that the engineer can plug into the line between exchange and green box DSLAM(?) and monitor it like I'm doing to see if the problem is between those 2 places?

I don't know, but given what was said earlier, I'd take anything with a pinch of salt.

"The last engineer stated that the signal is 8MB when it leaves the exchange but by the time it hits the green box down the road, the signal deteriorates to 3 - 3.5MB. He said that from the green box to my house there is no signal loss and that the SNR was the same." - it's just nonsense.

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

edit - last update for a while I think. Another disconnection, SNR now up to 22db and my connection speed has dropped to 288kbps...

Thanks BT, your automated system is really 'helping'

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

edit - last update for a while I think. Another disconnection, SNR now up to 22db and my connection speed has dropped to 288kbps...

Thanks BT, your automated system is really 'helping'

ha I think I'll listen to what the engineer has to say tomorrow after seeing my stats and if nothing is said to convince me then I'll ask either him or the tech support desk to chalk this up to something that they can't resolve.

I had a similar problem with drop outs/disconnections during the day and evening.
( although connection was rock solid overnight ! )
To cut a long story short...
Got a cheap AM radio with digital display and tuned it to 612kHz. There was a loud buzzing when the connection was lost. When No buzzing, connection was fine.
Turned off house power when connection was lost to check if interference was local, it wasn't.
When buzzing was heard, walked along road where my phone line met the pole.
Buzzing was present between my property and a few yards past the pole.
Checked when various neighbours were at work/at home and through elimination worked out buzzing and bb connection loss occured when one neighbour was at home, but fine when away. Contacted OFCOM and reported AM radio interference fault suggesting possible source. OFCOM radio engineer visited neighbour with his radio scanner to have a chat and I've had no problem since.
It appears one of my neighbour's mains appliances ( prob TV ) was emitting REIN, Repetative Electrical Impulse Noise which was killing bb along most of my road !
REIN interference could be the cause as others have suggested... it would just be a case of eliminating the possible sources.
Apparently Streetlights to Sky satellite receivers have been culprits.
If it is REIN and the effects are very short in nature, unfortunately it could be quite difficult to locate, it could be a lighting circuit only when switched on or off for example.

Hi,
Thanks for the info. May I ask why 612KHz? Is this a standard frequency or only relevant to yourself?

Edited by Fantasmo (Fri 19-Jun-09 20:22:06)

In reply to a post by ratonastick:

I had a similar problem with drop outs/disconnections during the day and evening.
( although connection was rock solid overnight ! )
To cut a long story short...
Got a cheap AM radio with digital display and tuned it to 612kHz.

What made you choose that frequency?

612kHz is used as it's a "harmonic" of lower freq like 306kHz that AM radios cannot receive. I think 306 is used by broadband.
( If the main signal is 306, harmonics are 612 ( 306x2 ), 918 ( 306x3 ) ...etc )
Google "REIN" or "REIN interference" and you'll see many posts suggesting that freq for the reason given. You might get REIN at other freq, but 612kHz is the recommended starting point.

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Hi,
Thanks for the info. May I ask why 612KHz? Is this a standard frequency or only relevant to yourself?

You know you could fire up DMT for the Netgear and see if there's a problem on the graph at 612KHz
http://www.2cent.de/dmt/v8/dmt.zip

Just want to report back.
Since my disconnection yesterday and the reconnect at 288kbps, the SNR has been relatively stable at 24db.
The engineer today disconnected the line and when reconnected I was back to 3232kbps and an erratic 12 - 14 db.
The engineer will now make a note to ask for a broadband specialist to bring his equipment and check for REIN interference.
BT have pretty much determined that it isn't a line problem and that an external source is involved.
I will try the DMT advise shortly.

update - Unfortunately, my DG834G v1 and Homehub v2 appear to not be compatible with DMT.

Edited by Fantasmo (Sat 20-Jun-09 11:32:26)

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

update - Unfortunately, my DG834G v1 and Homehub v2 appear to not be compatible with DMT.

Pity, back to the radio then or maybe routerstats?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

update - Unfortunately, my DG834G v1 and Homehub v2 appear to not be compatible with DMT.

Pity, back to the radio then or maybe routerstats?

Well, I've got hold of a 2Wire router and running Routerstats again. Noticed straight away that my SNR is rock steady at 15db so far. Is making me wonder if I've got it configured correctly

edit - ha spoke too soon...

further edit - I've noticed the following. At the moment, the Netgear is reporting 12db. Swapping it for the 2Wire in exactly the same position I get 15db. Will continue to monitor...

Edited by Fantasmo (Sat 20-Jun-09 15:08:22)

Hi
have you tried routerstats . as recommended. This application provides real time graphical display . Rein is very apparent using this software .see link below

http://vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm
It will show you trends over extended periods ,save a lot of speculation and time .

quote : Noticed straight away that my SNR is rock steady at 15db so fa

At 15db it normally would be rock steady . However this indicates that your target is now 15db . probably because of all the instability of your line . Some may be noise but could also be caused by too many swapping of equipment.

Regards Jeff

In reply to a post by jeffbb:

Hi
have you tried routerstats . as recommended.

Yes. As stated many times.
The 2wire is varying around the 15db mark where as the Netgear and HHv2 were at 11 - 12db.
Continuing to monitor with RouterStats...

Edited by Fantasmo (Sat 20-Jun-09 19:20:43)

Nightfall's about an hour away. No REIN spikes?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Nightfall's about an hour away. No REIN spikes?

My 2Wire had been pretty stable at 14 - 15db with a couple of spikes downwards for hours. I wasn't 100% sure if they were disconnections as my downstream connection was remaining the same until very recently.
After a recent phone call, from BT incidentally, I found genuine disconnection at about the same time. Testing further I have found that if I call the house phone in very quick succession from my mobile, I'm getting a disconnection.
My mastersocket faceplate has a built in filter. No other house phones wired in.
I've even plugged another filter in and still notice this connection drop.
I've now even unplugged the house phone and still noticing the drop.

I know that if my problem is because of the phone line then I'm going to look [censored] stupid but I'm a bit puzzled as to how it may still be dropping even with the phone unplugged.

As a bit of defence, my Netgear was showing erratic SNR during the time I was using it and the Homehub displayed the same random dropping, even with no calls during midnight.

I'll have to monitor it during the night.

Does your connection drop every time you use the landline, regardless of outgoing or incoming calls ?
Can you hear any noise on the line, crackles or hisses during a call ?
If the line is dropping every time the landline is used, it could be either a faulty faceplate, or a corroded/damaged joint/cable on your line somewhere.
Possibly an HR ( High Resistance ) disconnection fault. Extra current that flows during a phone call changes characteristics of a corroded joint.
You can double-check your filtered faceplate by unscrewing the faceplate and using a standard plug-in filter into the test socket on the master socket behind the faceplate. ( sorry if I'm stating obvious )
If it still drops without the phone connected, I still suspect REIN.
If you use your Netgear to run routerstats, I'd advise running the latest firmware for it. ( 3.01.38UK ) DG834Gv1 Page
Latest firmware has newer ADSL modem driver that should partially fix line stability problem that occured with noiser lines. I think the 2-wire and home hub use different chipsets, so should be more stable.

Fantasmo,

I've only just found this thread and what you are experiencing sounds very similar to this case.

Take a look through the rest of the blog, you might find something there that helps. It raises the question of where you are located, and whether there might be a common cause. Even if you aren't in the same area, there may be similarities that point to a common cause - for instance military radios and radar.

In reply to a post by ratonastick:

Does your connection drop every time you use the landline, regardless of outgoing or incoming calls ?
Can you hear any noise on the line, crackles or hisses during a call ?
If the line is dropping every time the landline is used, it could be either a faulty faceplate, or a corroded/damaged joint/cable on your line somewhere.
Possibly an HR ( High Resistance ) disconnection fault. Extra current that flows during a phone call changes characteristics of a corroded joint.
You can double-check your filtered faceplate by unscrewing the faceplate and using a standard plug-in filter into the test socket on the master socket behind the faceplate. ( sorry if I'm stating obvious )
If it still drops without the phone connected, I still suspect REIN.
If you use your Netgear to run routerstats, I'd advise running the latest firmware for it. ( 3.01.38UK ) DG834Gv1 Page
Latest firmware has newer ADSL modem driver that should partially fix line stability problem that occured with noiser lines. I think the 2-wire and home hub use different chipsets, so should be more stable.

Hi Ratonastick,
Checked the Routerstats log this morning to find a disconnection just after 12am. No phone calls coming in or out at that time.
I've tried 2 different faceplates this morning and plugging straight into test socket and if I call the house phone a number of times in quick succession (maybe so it's overloading the line or something) then I'm guarenteed a drop in ADSL connection. Disconnection will sometimes happen after just a single call. These tests were done with no house phone plugged into the mastersocket. No other sockets phyically wired anywhere else in house.
I cannot replicate the fault making outgoing calls. I had mentioned several times to the engineers that I had noticed when calling the house there was a crackle or click when if first begins to dial and I've now noticed a click / crackle after several seconds of dialing.
Their tests never picked anything up.
I'm going to stick to the 2Wire for the time being as it appears to be a lot more stable (will still drop when called).

In reply to a post by generaldisquiet:

Fantasmo,

I've only just found this thread and what you are experiencing sounds very similar to this case.

Take a look through the rest of the blog, you might find something there that helps. It raises the question of where you are located, and whether there might be a common cause. Even if you aren't in the same area, there may be similarities that point to a common cause - for instance military radios and radar.

Hi Generaldisquiet,
Thanks for the link. I'm in another part of the country, Wrexham - North Wales, and in a relatively built up area 30 minutes walk from the exchange. There doesn't appear to be a pattern of my disconnections outside of phone calls. I'll continue to report back to BT.

I'm now just glad that I have something to test when BT say that they have fixed the problem, I'll just keep calling the house and see what happens

OK - different part of the country and no obvious common cause.

It's the time range of your losses of sync that are particularly interesting. One of the things that has worked for me has been to put the router on a timer, set to switch-off at around 23:30 and then on again at around 03:30. This means I miss the main REIN event and the DSLAM at the exchange doesn't see the router having a coronary. The result is that my IP profile doesn't drop.

It may be worth your while giving it a try for a week or two.

I'll certainly give that a shot once I can get the disconnections from telephone calls resolved as I'm getting disconnections through the day too.
Thanks for the information.

Update - I've called BT to advise them of the pattern of disconnections tied to incoming phone calls. They have arranged for an engineer to visit again and specifically test for REIN interference.
I'm really hoping that something will be found and at least when the engineer comes I can show him the problem whilst he / she is here.

Edited by Fantasmo (Sun 21-Jun-09 17:36:59)

This is really weird, a dodgy joint should cause a disconnection with a call in either direction. If the line is crackling during a call in either direction, ring BT on 151 and report it as a telephone fault, don't mention broadband. If there isn't constant crackling, you could try the BT line test on 151 or the link below from a computer NOT connected to your line.( ie someone else's broadband )
BT Line Test
If the test comes back as fine, I suspect a fault at the exchange, probably something like a faulty line card that seperates the voice and broadband signals.
It's a case of getting your ISP to contact BT again to check the exchange end of your line.

In reply to a post by ratonastick:

This is really weird, a dodgy joint should cause a disconnection with a call in either direction.

Maybe it's the ringing voltage - that only applies one way.

Sorry, didn't read your latest post correctly. Serves me right for trying to look at too many forums at once.

I'm ready to give up.
I am unable to replicate the dropping connection with my Netgear and Homehub routers. I can 100% replicate with 2Wire.
My only glimmer of hope if that there is an audible muffle whilst ringing but really disheartened that I can't get the others to disconnect.
Not sure what this means now.

Maybe your ADSL faceplate is faulty. If it has no extensions wired to it, you could take it off and just use a microfilter in the test socket...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Maybe your ADSL faceplate is faulty. If it has no extensions wired to it, you could take it off and just use a microfilter in the test socket...

One of my tests earlier was plugging direct into test socket and use a variety of filters. Still had disconnections with the 2Wire.
Thinking back, I did suffer disconnections with the Netgear installed but as I was on a 2MB assured rate, the disconnections weren't as intrusive. I'm talking over 2 years ago.
Since renewing for 12 months with BT (cutting costs), the MAX setting has made the disconnections more apparent with the connection fluctuation.
I've plugged my HomeHub back in and think I'll just have to wait for the engineer's visit.

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Since renewing for 12 months with BT (cutting costs), the MAX setting has made the disconnections more apparent with the connection fluctuation.

Dunno if this helps, but http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/f/3654201-c...

Will bear it in mind but I don't think cable is an option for me. The Virgin website stated so anyway.

In reply to a post by Fantasmo:

Will bear it in mind but I don't think cable is an option for me. The Virgin website stated so anyway.

It's the fact they changed the T&C's which allows you to cancel the contract early, not who you go to.

As an update, an engineer turned up today. Didn't run any REIN scans but did swap me over to a completely new cable (maybe the term was 'stop cable or wire') and am just awaiting the outcome.
He did say that he doesn't believe that any interference was coming from the house due to me being connected to master socket and no other phones in house.

Well, since having my line swapped I enjoyed almost a whole week of unbroken connection. Unfortunately it disconnected twice today. Very odd but will report it soon if it disconnects several more times over the weekend.

I have O2 broadband and the basic setup got me 5mb. However upon removing the bell wire I get the full 8mb!

One thing I did notice when connecting to desktop pc (ethernet) I got 6mb and random cut offs, connecting to a laptop (ethernet) I get the full 8mb!

This baffled myself but I eliminated the source of the problem. It was the desktop internal power supply box. It was causing interference noise causing the router to lose connection. Upon changing this power supply box the desktop now syncs in at 8mb!

So if possible try a router reset after plugging into a different pc then checking the sync speeds.

cheers

Well, time for an update.
I'm still suffering from disconnections but they happen once or twice a week since the last engineer. I've noticed that my SNR will slowly reduce over days and haven't had a stable connection for over 7 days.
Better than it was and if it gets worse then I'll just have to get on the phone to them again.
The last call I made to them they stated they were going to change me back to Interlaced interweaving but that hasn't happened....

If the SNR is going down over a course of days have you considered rebooting the router daily - preferably during daylight hours in order to try and get the best sync possible?

In reply to a post by ian72:

If the SNR is going down over a course of days have you considered rebooting the router daily - preferably during daylight hours in order to try and get the best sync possible?

Hi Ian,
I haven't tried that yet as I was wanting to see how long I could keep a connection for. It disconnected yesterday but we had a lot of bad weather just before 5pm and I imagine that the thunder and lightning had some effect on it.
Am I right in thinking that if rebooting for this purpose then I'd need to power off and leave off for several minutes before powering back on, so that I avoid the exchange thinking that it was a line drop?
Cheers,
Lee

Line drops should only be a problem if you reboot a number of times in a short period. Rebooting once a day should have no negative impact at all. It's always best to leave a device powered off for about 30 seconds when rebooting anyway - but other than that you should have no issues.

Sorry to bring this thread back from the grave but I've still been having problems with the connection and I've got a call centre rep (not overseas) claiming that my line is fault free, when it isn't.
He's calling me back tomorrow morning and I just hope to clear this up before he calls.

Basically, he said that he checked my line and could see that my connection has been fine for approx 1 week now and that as he cannot see a problem then he will not re-open the case.
Well, what he is referring to is the Internet Connection, which has been connected for about that amount of time (had to disconnect all electrical items due to a replacement power meter).
What I'm having a problem is with the ADSL Connection, which is disconnecting at random times and up to 3 times a day (sometimes I'll have a nice period of up to a week with no ADSL drop). Whenever I have had an ADSL drop, the Internet Connection timer will not reset but the physical connection will definately be down.

When I questioned him this afternoon (whilst I was at work) about why my ADSL drops and that when it reconnects it does at a different rate (varying from 4MB to 6MB) he basically said that there is no problem on the line and that it must be a problem coming from within the house, and he even went as far a implying that I was lying.

Could he be on to something or does it just sound like he has no idea / trying to push this off? Any information I can fire back would be great.