Openreach Useless!

Hi

So ordered a ADSL connection for my mum,

So I had a line reactivated 2 months after it was deactivated, It was activated with Phone and Broadband from Plusnet.

Two weeks after activation I arrive at mums to setup router and bits and transfer extensions from Virgin master to Openreach master.

Turns out the line was dead and using a basic Ethernet tester I could only just get a faint response on the line.

Call Plusnet and wait 34 minutes on hold!, Openreach engineer will be with you tomorrow.

Openreach guy turns up, finds the line is cut around 3KM away, reconnects on new pair from junction box, Sorted dial tone and also a conversation, so grabs Openreach guy before he pulls off and he investigates the crossed lines issue, meanwhile the conversation between some lady and her daughter about Christmas presents ends so can#'t tell if issue is fixed or not.

Got router connected, synced at just over 1000kbps and only on G.DMT, do some testing and move things about, so leave it for a few hours thinking it needed to adjust from fault.

Next day, the lady and daughter are chatting away again, broadband rubbish, so back on to plusnet, another Openreach visit,

no lady on phone at this point, show openreach guy video evidence of crossed lines he says nothing he can do as line tests fine, I mention broadband issues he says I'm only a phone engineer (WTH Really!)

So back on to Plusnet, Lady from support is [censored] because they closes the fault on the lady on the phone said she can hear the line fault from here end, So she rejects the faults as fixed..

Now I've left my mums and the broadband is dire and on 31/12/14 the Virgin account will close leaving me poor mum with 0.6mbps.

My issue here is, how the hell do you get issues like this fixed, if the engineers can't even use Video evidence.

I asked if he could just change the line pair but wouldn't as there was no problem, and then what made my blood boil was when I mentioned the broadband he said I would need a Broadband engineer and when I asked if he could call through to office and get one arranged, He replied

"well if you was a BT Broadband customer I could but your not"

I replied saying well Plusnet is owned by BT Group just like Openreach and BT, His reply

"Yeah, But your provider is Plusnet not BT"

At which I recapped the visit as, I'm banging my head against a brick wall and I'm screwed as I quickly lead him to the front door.

Is this common practice or did I just get a dud spanner!

Requests for a broadband engineer will always come from the retailer

Engineers can only do what they are allowed to do and the suggestion BT gets favourable treatment could see them disciplined

openreach supports each service provider (circa 530+) in an equal and equivalent way

openreach will only do what they are asked by the service provider

Edited by deleted (Sun 28-Dec-14 12:01:23)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Requests for a broadband engineer will always come from the retailer

Well I know that now but was surprised that Openreach still worked in two teams, unfortunately I'm still used to Virgin Media technicians and ways,

Been a while since I've dealt with Openreach.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Engineers can only do what they are allowed to do and the suggestion BT gets favourable treatment could see them disciplined

Well my first thought was that Openreach had to deal with all providers as equals, I'm still concerned regarding the Video evidence of the issue and the guy saying good look getting it fixed as its intermittent!

and also why his test couldn't pick up on the line noise though it is apparent on my corded test phone.

"well if you was a BT Broadband customer I could but your not"

Oh dear, that was a HUGE faux pas by the Openreach bod, and also wholly inaccurate.

When you get the crossed lines have you tried shouting into the phone to see if the other people can hear you? If you can then you might be able to find out who they are and therefore arrange to initiate the fault when the engineer is there.

In reply to a post by ian72:

When you get the crossed lines have you tried shouting into the phone to see if the other people can hear you?

Yes but unfortunately they couldn't understand many words I was saying and only made out "hello" "what crossed" and they then hung up and continued their conversation on their mobile phone....

I'm hoping they report the fault but don't think they will.

Unplug all broadband hardware and if crossed lines still occur then report as voice fault, the broadband is irrelevant at that point.

Good chance fixing voice will fix broadband.

Thats what I did to start and the fault is currently with Plusnet, Just waiting for them to reply with a time for an engineer to visit..

Personally I think the broadband is just locked on a low/banded profile and won't budge as their is drops occurring reguarly.

Without seeing the stats from the modem hard to comment on the line being banded, but if there is a voice fault no point pestering to get profiles or banding reset as the automatic systems will just do the same all over again until the underlying voice fault is fixed.

The stats are as follows:

Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (0.1 dB): 69 110
Attenuation (0.1 dB): 590 315
Output Power (0.1 dBm): 175 125
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 1,792 672

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 1,376 448 0 0

K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 44 15 0 0
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 16 12 0 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 4.00 4.00 0.0 0.0
D (interleaver depth): 4 4 0 0
Delay (msec): 4.00 4.00 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 0.17 0.22 0.0 0.0

Super Frames: 646,521 646,521 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 1,739 6 0 0
RS Words: 10,990,853 11,001,006 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 2,631,911 4 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 2,263 0 0 0

HEC Errors: 1,314 17 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total Cells: 35,667,162 0 0 0
Data Cells: 54,236 0 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0 0 0

Total ES: 1,269 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 12 12

If this is a 21CN exchange then the 448 Kbps upstream is a standard PlusNet cap that can be changed on request. The 1376 Kbps is low by a meg or so, http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc will do the maths for you.

In short even if there is a fault, the 59dB attenuation line could go faster if this was resolved, but its never going to be a fast ADSL line.

My exchange is CMKING and it is a 21CN but for some reason the router will only link at ADSL1 and not 2+.

I was told 3mbps for the line so I'm happy as long as it breaks 2.5mbps in test.

Has the speed been tested (and the stats taken) without any extensions connected? The best way to do that is remove the faceplate and plug the router into the test socket. Extension wiring can have a really bad effect on long lines unless filtered at source (and if an unfiltered extension is required for ADSL it should use twisted pair cabling).

Hi

Yes all tests done and the setup is as follows:

Openreach NTE with Interstitial MK3 Faceplate

Un-Filtered Data Extension with Router plugged into RJ11 socket (cable made with cat5e)

Filtered Extension for Phones

Only difference at test socket was a 0.5db drop on downstream attenuation.


PS. Openreach due out to look at phone fault tomorrow afternoon, will see if anything changes after then!

Edited by mlmclaren (Mon 29-Dec-14 17:23:53)

That's certainly an optimal setup and pretty well how my system is set up too.

All brand new too!

Well Openreach Telephone Engineer came today, turns out the noise on the phoneline had got a lot worst and was now hissing...

He went off and fixed the hissing and left saying all good, but unfortunately broadband is still the same and still have a hum on the phone line (louder than the usual 17070 Quiet Line test hum)

I have phone Plusnet to ask for a line reset hoping this will fix the speed issues and also get me ADSL2+ as I can only lock on to ADSL (g.DMT) at the moment.

The guy from plusnet tried giving me some rubbish about my line only supporting between 1-3mbps.... But when I signed up i was told it would support 2.5 - 6.5mbps.

So anyway we battle on, personally regret cancelling Virgin Media now, poor Mum can't get pages to load most the time and I dare even bother buying her a webcam for Skype!

I think its time to forget this up to technology and focus on something that will a solid speed for everyone...

The 6.5 Mbps would have been optimistic if the attenuation is correct.

3 to 4 Mbps is the best I would expect at that line length.

The choice of not buying an up to service is there for 48% of people, i.e. Virgin Media.

Well I thought that myself, I was only expecting around 2.5 - 3mbps but still only getting 0.6mbps and locked to ADSL 1 (g.dmt)

Well the way things are looking I will need to have Virgin reconnected as this basic broadband isn't working out...

But arguing with Plusnet over the contract should be interesting as they have straight away told me the charges for leaving early and also decided to change their minds on what the estimated speed range was and deny everything I read on their website when ordering.

Its a very corrupt system and nobody can do anything about it, also don't take this as a rant at Plusnet as they are all the same.

Well Plusnet changed my line profile to 3.5mbps at their end but even thought the connection improved to a record breaking 1200kbps its starting to look like it won't get much higher...

Plusnet have decided to send a broadband engineer to have a look though they don't seem too sure that it will get much better and probably won't make 2500kbps never mind the 2800kbps I had with Sky in 2013..

I'm assuming they have done this as it is part of the steps that has to be taken before someone can leave cost free when getting less speed than estimated.

So Engineer will be out on Monday morning and I'm going to arrange with my mum to have a phone conference with the Openreach chap to see what the outcome is!

A long shot - but have you or your mother tried the QLT since the apparent "crossed-lines" have appeared.


I suggest that it is tried again, listening carefully to the initial announcement about the Line Number, to see if it is your mother's; or possibly that of the other line.

That was the first thing I did.

I think their is still a line fault anyway as the line has a louder than usual humming on the line and the crossed line issue may still exist, but the fault has been marked as resolved so we will see.

But I'm sure that a Broadband engineer will confirm this if it is an issue!

Well haven't got the full details yet but an Openreach engineer has been out and vandalised the home network I installed.

My setup was Master NTE with MK3 Interstitial > Un-Filtered Data Extension (RJ11)

Phones are also on a filtered extensions.

He has apparently removed my Data extension and a CAT5e modules from the wall and replaced them with an NTE Master because "The NTE is filtered"

This has now cut off all ethernet ports around house from connecting to internet.

and then he has said he's going to do some work externally (cabinet) to sort fault.

I've been on the phone to plusnet to try get some contact details for this "engineer" and also got nowhere with them, they keep saying "we have to wait for paperwork from engineer"

This guy had no reason to be in my mums house, the master socket is in the porch.

Is this usual, I'm really f*&^%£ off with T@£$% like these breaking my hard and precise work.

UPDATE 11:34

Not long spoke to Broadband Engineer who has been "fiddling" this morning, nearly ended up arguing over his decision to move my master socket from porch to living room at the back of my mums house

(ruining the nice black chrome socket matching I had going and causing slight damage to paintwork)

Nearly ended up in a row, specially when I explained that I do home networking solutions, he then said he would return to the property "at my request" to reinstall the RJ11 module but he would not reconnect the RJ45 (no surprise there, I suppose they can't cope with 4 pairs overs 1 )

I decided not to give that idiot permission to enter my mums property again and that I might fix it at a later date.

Once tones of voice had calmed, we started talking about the issue at hand and he said he has requested a pair change from the local cabinet back to exchange..

So fault was not at my house then! or with my setup!

He said that procedure is to replace parts at customers house and then test externally, I advised that it should be the opposite way round.

So now, when am I next in Birmingham!

Edited by mlmclaren (Mon 05-Jan-15 11:45:35)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

3 to 4 Mbps is the best I would expect at that line length.

My new stats since line pair change:

Mode: ADSL_G.dmt
Traffic Type: ATM
Status: Up
Link Power State: L0

Downstream Upstream
Line Coding(Trellis): On On
SNR Margin (0.1 dB): 68 110
Attenuation (0.1 dB): 580 315
Output Power (0.1 dBm): 179 124
Attainable Rate (Kbps): 4,372 876

Path 0 Path 1
Downstream Upstream Downstream Upstream
Rate (Kbps): 3,776 640 0 0

K (number of bytes in DMT frame): 119 21 0 0
R (number of check bytes in RS code word): 16 12 0 0
S (RS code word size in DMT frame): 2.00 4.00 0.0 0.0
D (interleaver depth): 8 4 0 0
Delay (msec): 4.00 4.00 0.0 0.0
INP (DMT symbol): 0.25 0.18 0.0 0.0

Super Frames: 360,253 360,253 0 0
Super Frame Errors: 19 0 0 0
RS Words: 12,248,593 6,129,197 0 0
RS Correctable Errors: 2,904 0 0 0
RS Uncorrectable Errors: 86 0 0 0

HEC Errors: 57 0 0 0
OCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
LCD Errors: 0 0 0 0
Total Cells: 54,540,996 0 0 0
Data Cells: 332,747 0 0 0
Bit Errors: 0 0 0 0

Total ES: 15 0
Total SES: 0 0
Total UAS: 13 13

Looks normal now

Well just a shame its took 5 visits from Openreach to get the line pair from the exchange changed, even after I asked an engineer to do it.

Now hopefully my mum won't need Openreach out again, not after the shambles service we've dealt with and still need to go fix the home network,

Lucky smart TV has Wi-Fi and was only thing on Ethernet network.