Question on tracert/traceroute

I cannot access telehouse.net on my mac but I can on my windows laptop.
Both using the same internet connection.
I have done a tracert on the windows pc and a traceroute on the mac to telehouse.net and there are differences which I am hoping may indicate the nature of the problem.
But I cannot understand why the trace routes would be different ?
Does anyone know ?

Could you post both the traceroutes as I don't want to guess?

Windows trace :
Tracing route to telehouse.net [85.90.40.37]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms BThomehub.home [192.168.1.254]
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 9 ms 8 ms 8 ms 31.55.187.184
5 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms core1-hu0-8-0-5.southbank.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.127.178]
6 9 ms 8 ms 9 ms 62.172.103.23
7 7 ms 7 ms 7 ms 166-49-211-230.eu.bt.net [166.49.211.230]
8 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms 166-49-211-38.eu.bt.net [166.49.211.38]
9 16 ms 16 ms 25 ms telehouse-gw.ip4.gtt.net [77.67.90.6]
10 17 ms 16 ms 16 ms TELECLOUD.US.COM [85.90.40.37]
11 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms TELECLOUD.US.COM [85.90.40.37]

Trace complete.


Mac trace :
traceroute to telehouse.net (85.90.40.37), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 1.083 ms 0.867 ms 0.817 ms
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 31.55.187.184 (31.55.187.184) 9.292 ms 9.043 ms 9.013 ms
5 core2-hu0-0-0-1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.168) 9.445 ms
core2-hu0-10-0-0.southbank.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.170) 8.300 ms
core2-hu0-8-0-1.southbank.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.184) 8.146 ms
6 213.121.193.207 (213.121.193.207) 8.736 ms 8.387 ms 8.954 ms
7 t2c3-et-3-3-0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.238) 8.033 ms
166-49-211-228.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.228) 8.778 ms 8.904 ms
8 166-49-211-38.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.38) 9.193 ms 9.225 ms 9.774 ms
9 telehouse-gw.ip4.gtt.net (77.67.90.6) 17.020 ms 17.131 ms 17.170 ms
10 www.telecloud.eu.com (85.90.40.37) 16.743 ms 16.384 ms 17.419 ms
11 * * *
12 * * *
13 * * *
14 * * *
15 * * *
16 * * *
17 * * *
18 * * *
19 * * *
20 * *^C

The mac trace never completes.

Just an extra quick bit of info.
I can't access telehouse.net on my Chromebook or iPhone either.
So the Windows laptop is the only device so far that works.

Windows and OS X use different protocols for traceroute. Windows uses ICMP and OS X uses UDP by default.

If you use your Mac's traceoute with ICMP by using the -I option the results are identical;

macchiato:~ sarah$ traceroute -I 85.90.40.37
traceroute to 85.90.40.37 (85.90.40.37), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
 1  10.18.2.2 (10.18.2.2)  1.974 ms  1.032 ms  0.857 ms
 2  losubs.subs.bng2.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.80.21)  8.937 ms  9.274 ms  9.411 ms
 3  ae1-182.cr1.th-lon.zen.net.uk (62.3.86.80)  9.042 ms  9.216 ms  8.971 ms
 4  ge-3-3-0.mpr1.lhr3.uk.above.net (195.66.236.76)  9.048 ms  9.732 ms  11.012 ms
 5  reserved.above.net (213.152.231.188)  9.541 ms  9.608 ms  9.353 ms
 6  telecloud.org (85.90.40.37)  9.618 ms  9.761 ms  9.561 ms
 7  telecloud.org (85.90.40.37)  9.846 ms  9.629 ms  9.679 ms

and note that whichever the Mac uses, it still gets to the same final reply address - 85.90.40.37, so you do reach it. It's just that telehouse.net responds differently to ICMP and UDP traceoutes, which is perfectly reasonable.

Edited by caffn8me (Mon 25-Jul-16 19:28:40)

Do you have different DNS servers assigned to the Mac and PC ?

Both Mac and Windoze resolve the address as 85.90.40.37

Thanks Sarah - that is very interesting info.
The traceroute with the -I option works on my mac also.
So I am confused why the mac cannot access telehouse.net website.

I thought that but then the PTR for the IP has more than one record meaning the traceroute name would appear different but that does not matter as the IP is the same.

:~ mattm$ host 85.90.40.37
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.telehouse.co.uk.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.telehouse.net.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer TELECLOUD.DE.COM.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer telecloud.eu.COM.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer TELECLOUD.US.COM.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer TELECLOUD.ORG.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer telehouse.co.uk.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer de.telehouse.net.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.TELECLOUD.DE.COM.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.telecloud.eu.COM.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.TELECLOUD.US.COM.
37.40.90.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.TELECLOUD.ORG.

Matt

Batboy- I have tried different DNS servers on the mac - makes no difference.
As Sarah said they all resolved to the same IP address.

I'm having no problems reaching http://telehouse.net but at the moment there's a major exchange bearer fault on the BT network. I can reach two Chiswick sites I manage by traceroute and ping but anything which sends a lot of data fails.

See here.

It's possible that your route to telehouse.net goes via the affected link.

Edited by caffn8me (Mon 25-Jul-16 19:48:30)

This is what I'm seeing on BQM Chiswick

I have been having this problem since last Friday, presumably before that fault developed.
Also I can access the site ok on my Windows laptop.

That definitely looks bad Sarah LOL.

Getting around the problem at the mo by using a VPN on my Mac.

Given that the site uses VOIP phones and credit card terminals that use internet, they're a bit stuffed.

So as I was saying, do you use the same DNS servers on the Mac and PC?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

So as I was saying, do you use the same DNS servers on the Mac and PC?

Irrelevant as both traceroutes show clearly that the Mac and the Windows box both resolve telehouse.net to the same IP address.

Irrelevant to whom?

Irrelevant to the packets what amble from the Mac or the Windows box in this case and which subsequently meander across t'internet to far end at telehouse.net.

That's very interesting. But, who cares? Let's fix the problem instead.

And how, precisely, will determining the DNS configuration help that given that the DNS servers used by both pooters give the same results?

I'm not sure you're interested in fixing the problem.

All using BT DNS servers.

Do you mean using the servers automatically assigned by the router, or have you manually assigned them in the network connectoid?

From the router.

Need to find someone who uses a mac with latest osx, iphone or chromebook with BT broadband to try it.

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Jul-16 22:21:03)

i thought you had the same problem on an iphone?

Post edited

Doesn't work on my iphone

Using your ISP or mobile data ?

Using my BT connection with router assigned DNS.

Do you have BT Wifi on your router?

Is BT WiFi the same as BT FON?
If it is no I don't I have deactivated it.

Yes it is. That works on my iPhone.

That is very strange, I don't understand what the hell is going on here.

So you were using BT FON (WiFi) on your own router and it worked ?

On win 10 with firefox, the website displays but the spinner keeps on going as if data is trickling through. I'm guessing the iPhone gave up waiting.

In reply to a post by evfrson:

So you were using BT FON (WiFi) on your own router and it worked ?

Yes

That is weird.

I noticed the same as you on my Windows 10 computer a few minutes ago, the site loaded but very very slowly.

Maybe BT are messing about with parental controls again. They usually intercept DNS requests even if you specify 3rd party servers like google when they do this.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Maybe BT are messing about with parental controls again. They usually intercept DNS requests even if you specify 3rd party servers like google when they do this.

Probably. I deactivated and deleted parental controls earlier today but made no difference, but who knows what the hell they are doing. I will leave it a few days and if it still doesn't work I will raise it as a problem with BT.

It could also be a problem with telehouse themselves.

From a mac, completes fine.

Traceroute has started�

traceroute to telehouse.net (85.90.40.37), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
1 bthomehub (192.168.1.254) 2.863 ms 1.476 ms 2.023 ms
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 31.55.185.188 (31.55.185.188) 19.149 ms 17.047 ms 16.557 ms
5 core1-hu0-9-0-0.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.132) 17.321 ms 17.517 ms 16.544 ms
6 peer6-hu0-7-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (62.172.103.15) 17.568 ms 17.244 ms 17.627 ms
7 166-49-211-230.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.230) 16.725 ms 16.229 ms 16.293 ms
8 166-49-211-38.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.38) 16.561 ms 16.841 ms 16.842 ms
9 telehouse-gw.ip4.gtt.net (77.67.90.6) 24.581 ms 24.317 ms 24.061 ms
10 de.telehouse.net (85.90.40.37) 25.436 ms 24.878 ms 25.311 ms
11 de.telehouse.net (85.90.40.37) 25.662 ms 25.091 ms 24.905 ms

In reply to a post by BuckleZ:

From a mac, completes fine.

Traceroute has started�

traceroute to telehouse.net (85.90.40.37), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
1 bthomehub (192.168.1.254) 2.863 ms 1.476 ms 2.023 ms
2 * * *
3 * * *
4 31.55.185.188 (31.55.185.188) 19.149 ms 17.047 ms 16.557 ms
5 core1-hu0-9-0-0.colindale.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.127.132) 17.321 ms 17.517 ms 16.544 ms
6 peer6-hu0-7-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (62.172.103.15) 17.568 ms 17.244 ms 17.627 ms
7 166-49-211-230.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.230) 16.725 ms 16.229 ms 16.293 ms
8 166-49-211-38.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.38) 16.561 ms 16.841 ms 16.842 ms
9 telehouse-gw.ip4.gtt.net (77.67.90.6) 24.581 ms 24.317 ms 24.061 ms
10 de.telehouse.net (85.90.40.37) 25.436 ms 24.878 ms 25.311 ms
11 de.telehouse.net (85.90.40.37) 25.662 ms 25.091 ms 24.905 ms

Can you access the website ?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

It could also be a problem with telehouse themselves.

No, just tested it on another ISP and it loads fine. Looks like a BT problem to me.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

It could also be a problem with telehouse themselves.

No, just tested it on another ISP and it loads fine. Looks like a BT problem to me.

Are you sure it's not a DNS problem?

Steady... I was merely trying to replicate the problem as accurately as possible. Which I did, as it happens

No i can't access the website.

evfrson,

Speaking generally, how exactly does one use the -I option in OSX? Traceroute is normally performed in what is a graphical interface in OSX. To use the -I option, do you have to go to Terminal instead?

In reply to a post by BuckleZ:

No i can't access the website.

Thanks for trying that.

In reply to a post by meditator:

evfrson,

Speaking generally, how exactly does one use the -I option in OSX? Traceroute is normally performed in what is a graphical interface in OSX. To use the -I option, do you have to go to Terminal instead?

Yes - open a terminal window and traceroute -I from there.

Right, OK, thanks. I'll make a note of that so that I remember, if at some time in the future I need to make use of it.