BT NET LEASE LINE & UDM PRO

Hello,

we are awaiting our 200mbps BT NET Lease Line order to be fulfilled by BT which should be happening within the next Month or so.

i just want to clarify (Since BT are not helpful) that our setup will work.

we have a UDM Pro Router for which we want BT net to use WAN 1 on it as our primary line.

BT have said they are providing an NTE which i presume will be an ADVA FSP150CP ?

i want the connection to go from the NTE into the UDM Pro, happy to connect in what ever way will work, CAT6, DAC, etc.

can someone confirm this setup will work?

People on this forum are normally extremely willing to assist those with leased line questions but sadly due to a recent spate of fake leased line questions/posts from one individual using multiple fake accounts it is hard for people here to know if this is another one of these fake posts (this question is virtually identical to those previous fake posts).

If this post is genuine I would recommend you take the time to google the router in question as there is lots and lots of existing information out there that will answer this question.

I’m not being funny, I have tried Googling and looked through loads of info and can’t find my scenario. I have just joined and am looking for some help, I was told this would be the place to go. I have no idea about fake posts and no idea why someone would get entertainment from fake lease line posts. But I’m an IT Manager at a transport company. Search my name on Linked Inn you’ll soon find me.

If your not sure how it works I would always recommend going for a managed line rather than wires only

Sadly a few always spoil it for everyone else.

I haven't checked you out so the best advice I will give is speak with BT Net again and seek clarity on how the service will be presented to you, the UDM Pro Router supports both RJ45 (port 9 ?) and SFP+ (Port 10 ?) Wan inputs which can be configured as either WAN1 or WAN2. Personally because its only a 200Mbps service for now you are better off having it presented as RJ45 as it will be easier for you to test, diagnose issues and manage. If the UDM Pro Router already exists it may be as simple as plugging a Cat 5, Cat 6 or Cat 6a cable in between the BT Net service to the UDM Pro Router RJ45 WAN port and changing the IP configuration details to what has been supplied by BT Net.

I have a few clients who have BTnet Leased lines and all of them were supplied with usual Openreach ADVA FSP, fibre link form that to a BTnet supplied Cisco Meraki then Ethernet from the Meraki to your router.

The Meraki is not doing NAT, so you won't have double NAT, just set your UDM up as a static IP WAN1 with the IP, Mask and Gateway BT provide you in the handover doc

For what it's worth it's not the route I would have went, BTnet are usually very expensive, I'd say unless your rural if you're paying a penny over £300/Month or on a contract longer than 36 months try to stop the order now and look at other options. 200mbps on a gig carrier should be coming in at the £200-250/month mark - even less if CityFibre have infrastructure nearby.

CityFibre offer a product called Ethernet Flex, it's a gigabit circuit shared by up to 5 users (usually it's not shared at all!) so you get a minimum of 200mbps all the time but can burst up to a gig if no one else is on that split. That is only £199/Month and would be my go-to if it's available for you.

Leased lines is kind of "my thing" so if you want any pointers or want me to check what other options are available for you so you can try to haggle your vendors price down feel free to PM me anytime

Hey, thanks for the reply, annoyingly, we are extremely rural… 10 miles from the nearest Exchange. We’re in the middle of a woods in the middle of no where so they’re laying 15km of cable to us. It’s a pretty big project for them. Yeah there’s a huge upfront cost to it also, because of what we do it’s a must have at this point however so we have no choice and BT are the only company that would do it let alone cost wise… no one else would even bother. So I won’t have 2 firewalls or anything or any problems like that having the Cisco router in place? Is there an option not to use the Cisco router now djist use the UDM and the NTE?

Thankyou… hopefully it will work one way or another then!

Cheers for you help.

In reply to a post by LiamBetts2000:

Hello,

we are awaiting our 200mbps BT NET Lease Line order to be fulfilled by BT which should be happening within the next Month or so.

i just want to clarify (Since BT are not helpful) that our setup will work.

we have a UDM Pro Router for which we want BT net to use WAN 1 on it as our primary line.

BT have said they are providing an NTE which i presume will be an ADVA FSP150CP ?

i want the connection to go from the NTE into the UDM Pro, happy to connect in what ever way will work, CAT6, DAC, etc.

can someone confirm this setup will work?

A direct internet access service is either provided as a managed service (with a router) or as 'wires only' without a router. So the first thing to be sure of is that this is truly a 'wires only' service and that BT will not in time be sending out to you a configured router when the service is near to going live.

If anything this helps you plan how you will manage and connect to the service but also physical space and power needs - wires only typically requires 2 RU of space (1 for the fibre tray/shelf and one for the Adva NTE). A dual power supply needed for the Adva too. Managed service needs another RU of space for the router.

If it actually is a 'wires only' provision then you will need to get the service configuration details for BT for the access. This is not only the IP addressing information but also any relevant VLAN information for the WAN port.

Finally - if this is wires only - in terms of physical connectivity double check with BT, but the usual default provision is a single-mode 1000BaseLX duplex LC interface that needs a matching pluggable on your router WAN interface. Its possible also to spec this interface to be 1000BaseT copper on the ADVA or indeed the multimode equivalent SFP pluggable as above. You just need to know which it is. Also DACs do work with ADVAs but they are not officially supported.

In reply to a post by LiamBetts2000:

Hey, thanks for the reply, annoyingly, we are extremely rural… 10 miles from the nearest Exchange. We’re in the middle of a woods in the middle of no where so they’re laying 15km of cable to us. It’s a pretty big project for them. Yeah there’s a huge upfront cost to it also, because of what we do it’s a must have at this point however so we have no choice and BT are the only company that would do it let alone cost wise… no one else would even bother. So I won’t have 2 firewalls or anything or any problems like that having the Cisco router in place? Is there an option not to use the Cisco router now djist use the UDM and the NTE?

If you don't want the meraki at all you'd need to order "wires only" service, best bet would be speak to BT or check any documents they've sent regarding the service and they should list if it's wires only or managed

In reply to a post by LiamBetts2000:

Hello,

we are awaiting our 200mbps BT NET Lease Line order to be fulfilled by BT which should be happening within the next Month or so.

i just want to clarify (Since BT are not helpful) that our setup will work.

we have a UDM Pro Router for which we want BT net to use WAN 1 on it as our primary line.

BT have said they are providing an NTE which i presume will be an ADVA FSP150CP ?

i want the connection to go from the NTE into the UDM Pro, happy to connect in what ever way will work, CAT6, DAC, etc.

can someone confirm this setup will work?

The ADVA will by default be provisioned with your connection to it being via the SFP (eg Fibre). The service provider (so BT in your case) can ask for it to be on the copper port if you wish. In your case it won't really make any odds if you're only doing 200 meg.

You then just configure the IP addressing in that BT will presumably provide to you once the line is in, and you'll be away.

In reply to a post by LiamBetts2000:

Hey, thanks for the reply, annoyingly, we are extremely rural… 10 miles from the nearest Exchange. We’re in the middle of a woods in the middle of no where so they’re laying 15km of cable to us. It’s a pretty big project for them. Yeah there’s a huge upfront cost to it also, because of what we do it’s a must have at this point however so we have no choice and BT are the only company that would do it let alone cost wise… no one else would even bother. So I won’t have 2 firewalls or anything or any problems like that having the Cisco router in place? Is there an option not to use the Cisco router now djist use the UDM and the NTE?

I doubt only BT would have provided it - anyone else that uses Openreach for Ethernet would have - I can think of several companies who would.

The ADVA will by default be provisioned with your connection to it being via the SFP (eg Fibre). The service provider (so BT in your case) can ask for it to be on the copper port if you wish. In your case it won't really make any odds if you're only doing 200 meg.

The other benefit of keeping the interface optical is that the service between the NTE and router can extend beyond 90+10m limits on copper. Useful if the router is in another building etc for example. Otherwise yes there’s not much else in it.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The ADVA will by default be provisioned with your connection to it being via the SFP (eg Fibre). The service provider (so BT in your case) can ask for it to be on the copper port if you wish. In your case it won't really make any odds if you're only doing 200 meg.

The other benefit of keeping the interface optical is that the service between the NTE and router can extend beyond 90+10m limits on copper. Useful if the router is in another building etc for example. Otherwise yes there’s not much else in it.

I mean sure, that's a fringe scenario. You may find however running copper is more power efficient too for a small connection. SFPs can be hungry beasts. Every watt counts!

In terms of power consumption, in my experience fibre is actually very power efficient especially the low power LX variety. 10G copper and pluggable copper SFPs are another matter entirely and yes can consume quite a bit.

Anyhow. To be fair deciding to take a managed router as part of the bargain (or not) is going to have a far more impressive quantum on power consumption than the difference between 1G on copper or fibre interface.

You say this, but with quotes for businesses how hitting £1.04 per unit, every single watt matters…

Somehow this has morphed in an energy efficiency thread...😂

In which case if the object is absolute power consumption - delete the managed router, go wires only, and use a DAC cable between the Adva and customer router.

Apologies for taking this completely off course...

Small margins, but to be honest geeks technology enthusiasts will want SFP+ and the rest including me will be happy with a Cat 5 (or above) RJ45 patch lead 😎🤣

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Sep-22 21:40:49)

It's a bit of nonsense in this particular case - the difference between 0.5W and 0.8W - yes 0.3 of a watt between a GigE copper port and SFP fibre port. There's probably more natural variation in the basic power supply of the NTE as they roll of the production line

I love a good energy efficiency argument, BUT if your business margins are so tight that 0.3W matters then I suggest other more tangible savings could be made....like not putting in a managed router. A whole box will save a ton more energy than choosing one interface type over another.

...or for that matter taking the microwave out of the lunch room or the kettle. 🙈😂

That aside, no joking, this winter is going to a rough one for lots of folks and a lots of small business will simply stop if the cost of utilities gets increasingly insane.

My comment was around practicalities of simply using a RJ45 copper patch lead over the whole fibre thing for a 200Mbps circuit that may only need to go a few metres. Sometimes people want to over engineer the solution because technology gives them a buzz 😎

Edited by deleted (Sun 04-Sep-22 21:48:23)

Or just read through this massive thread:

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4664574-bt...

Oh heavens. I remember that thread now 😀

In reply to a post by dect:

My comment was around practicalities of simply using a RJ45 copper patch lead over the whole fibre thing for a 200Mbps circuit that may only need to go a few metres. Sometimes people want to over engineer the solution because technology gives them a buzz 😎

Historically with EAD, Openreach (following on from BT) on the NTE customer interface offered copper for services that were up to 100 Mbps and otherwise fibre for services that needed a gigabit bearer.

Only quite recently did Openreach update the EAD offering to include 1000BaseT copper on the customer interface. I think they changed around mid 2020. This was probably as the service evolved and broadened its base over the years from a strictly corporate product and moved into the non-corporate market, also as prices eased and they became more relatively available.

Still I'm pretty sure for EAD, fibre remains the 'default' offering for gigabit and part gigabit services from the NTE unless the customer specifically requests the copper 1000BaseT for access.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Oh heavens. I remember that thread now 😀

Never missed a beat since!

I tried a DAC for one of my customers and got no connection.

Thanks Dan.

I've asked recently if we can use the ethernet port and always get told its DFP only for gigabit bearers.

Thanks
Dan

Having refreshed my memory perusing the monster linked thread above...🤣

I think it was @jpm that noted the copper port for Gig bearers (available since mid 2020) an ‘upgrade’ path when the customer is moving from say a 10 or 100 Mbps based bearer on copper.

For “new” gigabit bearer services OR will insist on access provision using SFP

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

I tried a DAC for one of my customers and got no connection.

Thanks Dan.

It’s known to work with the Adva’s but perhaps it could be the DAC used.

Ahh, that makes sense.

Thanks
Dan

It could be, it worked between the router and a switch so I know it works.
I think it was Netgate branded.

Thanks
Dan

In reply to a post by danielhyde:

I think it was Netgate branded.

Hmm might have had some odd vendor-lock by Netgate. The cheapo generic ones (as noted in the other thread) work fine with ADVAs

Possibly, it worked in a Mikrotik switch.

Thanks
Dan

In reply to a post by LiamBetts2000:

Hello,

we are awaiting our 200mbps BT NET Lease Line order to be fulfilled by BT which should be happening within the next Month or so.

i just want to clarify (Since BT are not helpful) that our setup will work.

we have a UDM Pro Router for which we want BT net to use WAN 1 on it as our primary line.

BT have said they are providing an NTE which i presume will be an ADVA FSP150CP ?

i want the connection to go from the NTE into the UDM Pro, happy to connect in what ever way will work, CAT6, DAC, etc.

can someone confirm this setup will work?

Sorry for late reply but I have set up up an Advanced link into UDM Pro just fine before.
The connection you type you will get on the Adva will be the one specified on order; if it's fibre it means fibre, and you can't use the copper port. Don't try to change any optics yourself. You can use fibre into the UDM Pro but you need an SFP for it.. make sure it matches the spec (multimode, single mode, strength, speed, etc.) I presume you'll have a 1Gbps hand off (on the interface) for a 200Mbps line. Don't try to use a DAC from Adva as the optic in advance is probably BT's responsibility.

What I can't comment on is the IP side as we've only done this internally on our network so that authentication is something you need to confirm with BT. I would have thought a leased line they'd supply a router though.. not just an Adva.. but I may be wrong.

seb

Hey, so our line will now be a 1gb connection.

i have FS SFP & MM patch cable ready to go, its the settings part i need, they are meant to be providing me the details that i need but is their anything specific i need to put in on the UDM pro for subnetting or the Static IP settings etc, addition IP Addresses, VLAN?

In reply to a post by LiamBetts2000:

Hey, so our line will now be a 1gb connection.

i have FS SFP & MM patch cable ready to go, its the settings part i need, they are meant to be providing me the details that i need but is their anything specific i need to put in on the UDM pro for subnetting or the Static IP settings etc, addition IP Addresses, VLAN?

Your UDM Pro will do the NAT so it needs a 'public' address or you need to configure PPPoE or something. I've only done this on an Ethernet line where I control the other end rather than as a leased line so that I don't know but you may have to configure DNS server (you can probably use 8.8.8.8 too) as well. Did you order it as MM btw? I have no idea

You need to configure which is WAN1 I think.. so if you're using SFP it will be port 10 or 11.. You'll need to set the connection to Static IP if you get a service that's just routed or PPPoE with username/password if needed (e.g. if you had a broadband service you'd use PPPoE) - ask BT for the settings you need. The inside side it will pretty much do out of the box as I recall.

seb