Where I can go now with line problems?

Sorry this is a long post but I felt I needed to give full information of the problem and what has been done so far. I have had line problems for months. My ISP says there is a line fault, and there is noise at times. BT Retail via the chairman�s office now say the line has been fully tested and there is no fault. During the involvement with the chairman�s office someone from BT Wholesale did phone me but as soon as they knew there was occasional noise said nothing they could do confirming what my ISP has been saying now.

Over the months I have used two different BT filter face plats and 3 different filters into the test socket. Two different modems, Belkin Pre N wireless modem and Speedtouch ST536 linked to a Belkin Pre N router, have been used and I changed my cordless phone over. Both the phone and modem are direct into the master socket; there is NO extension wiring. When not in use the Printer etc are not on and turned off at the main switch so there is no other electrical equipment running then, but the modem still suffers loss of signals.

I have tested line noise with a cable phone direct into the test socket with, no modem, which tested with noise last night. The only real test we have left is removing the phone, but we have no mobile reception and the phone is in regular use. All electrical equipment in the house was turned on and off, monitoring for any effect using RouterStats Lite, over two days, with no effect.

The main sources of interference, TV, central heating etc. are at the far end of a long house, which has stonewalls. The phone and electrical wiring are newly installed in the last two years.

At times phone calls cause loss of signal to the modem and often when connection is re-established the up speed is down to below 100k. (56khttp ://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results/id/121493733440678531864.html )
Other times there are just a number of loss of signals, again at times producing low up speed. But normally conextion is reestablised at full up speed.
My ISP says the BT logs are showing only a few compared to the large number I am loging as the reconextion is to fast to be loged by BT.

Down speed has been good for the last few months but the level of errers has become an incresing probem causing increasingly slow internet access in proctice for example after after 1h 22m yesterday

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 40 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 10,463,483

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 187

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 127


And on the 1st July

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 129 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 812,527

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 11,400

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 8,897

Fallowed by a reboot of the modem that produced

Uptime: 0 days, 0:41:54

Modulation: G.992.1 annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 64 / 5,344

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/KB]: 0.00 / 0.00

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 10.5 / 19.5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 28.5 / 47.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 8.0 / 10.0

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / TSTC

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 5 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 130 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1,984

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 8

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 6


I am at a loss as to what to do now, I feel there is a line problem but BT Retail say there isn�t and with intermittent noise am able for them charging me again if I get them back and alls quiet with the line! BT Wholesale/ISP say there is a line problem nothing to do with them. But BT Retail say BT Wholesale should have the test capability to trace any problems I still have and its now down to my ISP to get BT Wholesale to deal with it.

I would be grateful of any advice as to where I can go now?

Remove the phone and leave the modem plugged in to the test socket. Reboot the modem. Do you get the same stats (attenuation, SNR margin, sync rates)?

Thanks for suggestion, To get a even result I have rebooted with the phone attached

xDSL linestate up (downstream: 5600 kbit/s, upstream: 448 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 12.0 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 47.0 dB, Up: 28.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 9.5 dB, Up: 20.0 dB)

and again with the phone removed from the filter and turned off

xDSL linestate up (downstream: 5504 kbit/s, upstream: 448 kbit/s; output Power Down: 19.5 dBm, Up: 11.5 dBm; line Attenuation Down: 47.0 dB, Up: 28.5 dB; snr Margin Down: 9.5 dB, Up: 20.0 dB)

doesn�t look very different to me but after this restart already have errors with no internet use by me!

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 220

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

this jumbed getting here to put reply to
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 562

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

That shows no significant difference with or without the phone attached.

FEC, CRC, and HEC errors accumulate regardless of whether you are using the connection or not. Null ATM packets are transmitted between you and the exchange rather than data packets when you aren't using the internet.

With that amount of errors it is slightly surprising that BT's monitoring software hasn't boosted the target SNR margin.

Has anybody ever suggested any possibilities for the source of the noise causing the errors?

Sorry for long reply again but...
Over the last year there have been periods with a lot of noise on the line. Since BT did some network replacement this improved. Over this time my ISP and BT Wholesale said RF interference was the problem, which is why we did the tests of all electrical equipment over 2 days. But a retired BT engineer came and looked at my house and said there was no way RF was present as there was no internal phone wiring. This was supported by a BT engineer who phoned me and said there was no known RF problem in the area around me. A third reason I dismissed this was my son worked in electronics R&D in communication and though he thought it a lode of rubbish checked every thing out and no found nothing!

The retired engineer thought the problem sounded like a point or points of high resistance on the line. A poor contact that either improved when damp or could be worsened by allowing leakage to earth, He thought either or both could be the cause as we get things worsened more when we get dry periods but also often can do so after a wet period also. So we had a good period up until just over a week ago, come hot dry weather and it worsened, But with the wet weather there has been little improvement and the errors have been getting worse then ever!

Other reasons have been modem, changed, filters, ditto, socket, into test socket, PC (not on when not in use and still get loss of signal, lights, we get it when we have been out or even away for weeks! It was said Christmas lights, but we were 1000 yards or more from the then nearest ones! Radio Ham, yes there is one near, but he is working abroad most of the year so unless he can wok it remotely not him (any way local BT engineer would have heard of a RF problem as the pole is right out side the hams house).

The phone effecting the modem, changed phone and moved it to far end of desk (short extension lead). My son took the old one and set it up at his house next to his modem, no effect at all!

There have probably been others put forwarded but in nearly a year you tend to forget the �less� likely ones!

Potentially , RF interference could be induced indirectly from another line either in the same or an adjacent cable bundle. If that line does not carry an xDSL service then the end user may not even be aware of a problem even though it may (potentially) be afecting other lines.
Reports from Openreach techs have suggested that amongst other items, faulty Sky box's connected to a phone line can affect broadband over a wide area due to interference `spreading' through cable bundles.
Even neighbours faulty TV's have been identified as sources of RF interference.

Thanks for the comment that sounds a valid point, but I would have thought if a "bundle" is effected others would have been effected/complaining. Poor TV reception here does lead to most houses having sky. The BT engineer, if he was being honest, didn't know of any problems and the radio ham's house has BB and more than one other are linked to the pole out side his house. Its a village and the main cableing runs at the bottom of our house garden, were the line goes so I would have thought all/many of the cables/users there could be being effected as well?

But as BT are not interested in dealing with the problem I am at a loss with how to take this further as a possibility?

A long distance driver lives in the house net door. Hew isn�t there in the day time and I do get loss of connexion in he day time as much as any other time. There is also a thick stone wall, over 18 inches between us (no idea where his TV is in relation to my modem). There are no other TV's near; we are in a hilly county village which is why TV reception is poor and houses are not close!

I do know his phone line runs to a different connexion point (where our one did until it was replaced by BT as a result of line problems two years ago). The connections join the main run to the exchange nearer the exchange than our new line, The main cabling runs alone a road with branches off to users on either side. When our one was replaced it was a shorter distance to run the new one direct to the bottom road than back up to the old �branch� lines.

Edited by john7 (Fri 04-Jul-08 08:55:41)

Since restartin modem last night the errers are

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 5 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1,764,413

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 4,138

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3,667