Need help understanding old BT wiring at NTE5 Master Socket

I am trying to get some clarity from someone more adept at this kind of thing, on the old (pre-1980 according to http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm) wiring on my NTE5 Master Socket. My aim is to connect a filtered faceplate to help boost the speed on my 16Mb Home XILO connection.

Excuse the bad photos, but here are some images with the lower half of the faceplate removed from the master socket.

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...

The cable coming into the bottom of the box has blue, orange, green and brown wires inside.
The green wire is connected to the faceplate.
The brown wire isn't connected to anything.
The blue and orange disappear into the top half of the socket and seem to be connected to something.

There is one extension socket upstairs (which had a dial tone last time I checked)

My questions:

1. Is the cable entering the base of the Master Socket BT's cable, or an extension cable going to the socket upstairs?

2.What do each of the wires do (how can I tell which are important?) & does it seem like they are wired correctly for the current configuration (or a previous occupiers DIY bodge job?)

3. Does it look like this wiring is incorrect and is causing/contributing to my slower speeds?

4. How do I fit and ADSL Nation XTE-2005 with this wiring?

Bear in mind that I want to do this legally, and that I do not really need the upstairs extension to be working.

Difficult to say what is what ...

It could, but may not be, a BT feed at the bottom with a pair feeding the A&B terminal and the green being used as the ring wire, or it could be an extension badly wired in.

If it is the main feed then it was not done by BT - you mention pre 1980 wiring. Well almost! The cable used though is not pre-1980 and it would have been Blue, Brown and Orange in use.

It is hard to tell but the wire may be "Alarm Cable" which is not suitable for phone circuits.

It is breaking your agreement with BT but provided you do not change or alter any wires and are careful, unscrew the two screws and remove the top half of the face plate and see what is behind it. Is there another cable? What is connected to the A&B terminals.

Can you trace where the incoming drop wire feeds the house and how it is routed? Is there another junction?




And yes that set up could well contribute to low speeds.

Edited by MHC (Tue 06-Apr-10 10:57:48)

Is the cable sold core ?
From a distance it looks like someones used an old 4 core flex cable. It certainly doesn't look like twisted pair though. It is hard from just photos.

My guess like I think MHC is thinking is this is for the extension and there are hopefully two wires (and hopefully twisted pair) feeding the back of the master socket.

Again a guess but I think the other wires if they are for the extension could just be wired into the master rather than into the face plate you have here.. since otherwise you only have the green wire feeding the other extension and that work work..

If you were local to Basingstoke I'd even offer to come and have a look for you but I am guessing you may be a little further away

Thankyou for your reply MHC. I have now done some more detective work and discovered the following.

On the master socket, The A&B terminals have the blue and orange wire connected to them (orange at the top, blue underneath).The green cable is connected to pin 3 on the faceplate.

Master Socket:
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...

I have found a junction box near the front door with the BT drop wire clearly entering one side and two cables coming out of the other side. (One appears to go upstairs, presumably to the extension socket, and one downwards - no doubt to the master socket)

I have taken a few photos and drawn a diagram of this junction box which no doubt will help to decipher the wiring situation a little more.

Junction Box Photos:
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...
Junction Box Diagram:
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af122/koalaelf/B...

Thanks for your kind offer Pgre, but I am a little far away over in Bath.

In answer to your question, the cable is solid core. All the cables seem to be solid core (including BT's wire that comes into the junction box that I have now discovered) The BT solid core seems to be nice shiny copper, whereas all the other cabling (to master socket and extension socket) is a dull grey metal.

I have posted links to new photos/diagram of the Junction box in my reply to MHC above. This seems to clarify some issues - but I am still not quite sure what it means in terms of how to wire an ADSL Nation filtered faceplate, or whether this wiring setup may still cause problems with my internet (it is obviously old!)

The orange and white pair at the junction box are the incoming A+B pair. These should be connected (Via suitable extension cable) to the A+B terminals of the NTE5 master socket and to nothing else. All extensions are then wired from the front plate of the NTE5 master. Currently, it looks like the upstairs socket has no protection or you have two master sockets.
If re-cabling, use only CW1308 or CAT5/6.

ok easy.

You have indeed got old wiring and it has been done incorrectly. it is twisted pair copper (good quality) it is simply ancient. FYI bt have now revrted back to this old style cable a couple of years ago as it is cheaper to manufacture as there is no banding on the colours. This was done before adsl when wiring was teed / star wiring, while it works for telephone it isnt great for dsl. It is illegal for you to do this, BT will do it for a hundred or so quid, but as a bt engineer, what I would do is:

1. disconnect the green wire from the faceplate.
2. reterminate the green to port "2" on the face plate and the brown on the "5"
3. on the gpo junction box unscrew both the terminals which have two wires under the screws (leave the single orange and white alone that is the feed).
in the screws opposite the white and orange (you can see a connecting bar) screw in the solid blue and solid orange respectively. now your two feed wires hit the back of the nte5.
4. using two of the spare screws on the same side, strip back and twist the now loose green wire to the loose blue wire and screw down. Then do the same for the brown and the white with blue banded wire.

Now when you disconnect your faceplate your extensions will go off as should be - you're extension is now back wired using the nte5 cable - this is what a bt engineer would do. If you find your phone doesnt ring upstairs (as you are not feeding the bell wire) it would be easiest to replace the upstairs socket for one with a capacitor. But most phones have a ringer built in anyway and no bell wire = better dsl.

Hope this helps.

Edited by deleted (Tue 06-Apr-10 16:52:35)

The phrase "Cowboy" comes to mind - I presume it is not your wiring.

There are several ways to sort it out but as you want ADSL at the extension it will not be easy or tidy.

Technically you will need BT to regularise the installation by providing a correctly wired master at one location. Provided you are reasonably new at the premises and can persuade BT that you have not done the changes the cost is reasonable.

Is it easy and tidy to get a new cable from the junction box to where your master currently is?
That cable is not much use for ADSL - although fine for voice?
Would a master look out of place where the junction box is?

Get BT to install a master (which can have no sockets on the front) and then run your own telephone (CW1308) or Cat5 cable to where you want your splitter installed. You will need a filter on upstairs extension too but that socket can be wired using the existing cable.

They have backfed the bellwire from the master in a sort of hybrid star wiring. Just pull the green bellwire from the master.

Nope, it is not my wiring. I've had a Virgin service since I moved in until recently, so I have only just discovered what a mess the wiring is. Can't stand bad DIYers & cowboy types... but it seems someone who used to live here had no such reservations. >_<

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I don't need ADSL at the extension (which is in one of the bedrooms) - in fact I don't need the extension socket to work at all! I only want a master socket (in the lounge at the front of victorian terrace house) that gets the best broadband speed I can from my line (ie. ability to wire in a decent filtered faceplate & good wiring up to the master socket - with no other dodgy wiring causing problems)

I think a new cable from junction box would need to run under the floorboards ideally (do BT engineers ever lift floorboards to run cables? Or could they use the old cable to pull a new one through?). It would only be approx 7m run of wire.

The cable does seem to be fine for voice, I have called the BT engineer out - but since I only pay for line rental/calls package with them - will they charge me if it turns out to only be a problem that affects the broadband?

The junction box is literally screwed to the top of the front door frame in the hallway - so fitting a master socket there may be a little odd... I have no problem with the modem/router being on the wall next to other "service" boxes (eg elec. & gas) but having to go into the (draughty) porch to pick up the phone doesn't seem appealing.

I am hoping that since the master/GPO junction box are (according to folks on here) incorrectly wired - the BT engineer will be happy that it is their responsibility to fix it (I have only just discovered there are any oddities with the line since I got a BT line connected and used it for broadband. I have lived here for 3 years, but had Telewest/Virgin BB up until now)

Can I reasonably expect that they will install new cabling? Or are they more likely to try and rewire what is there? Should I request anything in particular? (eg. could I ask them to install a filtered faceplate - and is the BT one as good as the ADSL Nation one?)

Thankyou for your help btw - it is hugely appreciated.