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Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 06-Apr-11 20:23:54
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
The default target SNR margin is 6dB. Yours seems to have been raised. It is meant to lower in 3dB steps if your line is stable, but each 3dB step drop is rumoured to take 2 weeks.

You could ask your ISP to have the target SNR margin reset. The problem is most ISPs don't seem to understand the request, and even if they do not all are successful at passing the request on to BT.

You have the additional problem of not knowing what caused the bad sync which triggered the lowering of your profile. You might get your line reset only to suffer a bad sync again.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 06-Apr-11 20:44:05
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Sorry but I'm confused tongue
Is the figure I am quoting from my router a "target" Noise Margin or "actual" Noise Margin? It's labled "Noise Margin"
When I look at a plot of it on a graph in routerstats it varies throughout the day +/- the odd dB here and there. So does that not suggest I am looking at a live noise figure and not some target set by DLM which would be a constant surely?
I thought I understood SNR Noise Margin and Target Noise Margin but I'm not so sure now. Google here I come wink
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 06-Apr-11 20:56:01
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
The figure given by your router is the current SNR margin. Typically when a router syncs it will be at the fastest speed possible to achieve a target SNR margin of 6dB. As line conditions fluctuate the SNR margin will rise and fall accordingly (more radio interference at night tends to cause the SNR margin to fall).

In your case it seems that at one stage your router couldn't sync at all with target margins of 6dB, or 9dB, but could sync at 12dB.

The next time you restart your modem/router look at the SNR margin as soon as possible after restart. That should indicate your target SNR margin.


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Standard User deleted
(deleted) Wed 06-Apr-11 21:00:00
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Thanks John, I plan to normalise my wiring tommorow morning so will do it then.
Regards
Clive
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 07-Apr-11 08:51:06
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Just normalised wiring so now connected through NTE5 and adsl faceplate.
Router Stats below look musch the same. In fact sync rate a bit higher, attenuation figure the same, noise figure slightly higher ...
Speed test results the same @ 5.1Mbps.


System Up Time 00:02:07

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 340 289 0 2853 4609 00:00:32
LAN 10M/100M 415 603 0 1473 1066 00:02:02
WLAN 11M/54M/108M172 6 0 196 5 00:01:56

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6880 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 24.0 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 14.8 db 24.0 db

Edited by deleted (Thu 07-Apr-11 08:54:57)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 07-Apr-11 09:47:00
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
What did you do to normalise the wiring?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 07-Apr-11 09:53:18
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
One question.
I am only about 0.8Km from the exchange as the crow flies. Is 24dB Line attenuation a bit high for that kind of distance?
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 07-Apr-11 10:01:19
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I put my ADSL faceplate back into the NTE5 and wired my router back to my LAN wiring (just a small patch panel set up). I had disconnected everything apart from my main PC and the WAN connection from the router to eliminate all unnessesary patching etc.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 07-Apr-11 10:14:46
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Re: DSLAM Profile question - ADSL Stats As I see them


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
Guys,
In an attempt to sort out my confusion I have read up on several sites. I found a somewhat bewildering array of information but I think I am starting to get to grips with it.
I have tried to collate all the information I have found into one document. It's a work in progress but I'd like to put it up here to see if I am talking sence or pure gibberish (like I normaly do wink)
Please feel free to comment, good and bad (I can take it wink)
Any constructive critisism on anything I have wrong or could be explained better greatly appreciated....


ADSL Stats As I see them
Transmit Power The amount of signal sent from the exchange dBmw Tx Power
Line Attenuation The amount of power lost through line impedance, Joints etc dB Atten Generally the longer the line the higher the line attenuation will be. It can also be effected by joints in the line (especially if they are badly made) amongst other things. The data rate or frequency of transmission also effects line attenuation. The higher the frequency/data rate the higher the line attenuation.
Received Power What is left of the transmitted power received by the modem after the line attenuation dBmw Rx Power = Tx Power - Atten The receiver will need a minimum amount of power to be able to decode the signal. This is called receiver sensitivity.
Noise level The amount of noise power on a line. dBmw Noise Again the longer the line the more noise will be induced in it. Noise comes from many sources; Atmospheric noise (thunder storms etc.), electrical interference from white goods or vehicles in the area and crosstalk from other lines running parallel to your line. This figure will change throughout the day. Cable quality also effects noise levels.
Signal to Noise Ratio The difference between the wanted signal and the noise levels dB SNR =Rx Power - Noise Probably the most important factor in any transmission service. The receiving equipment must have enough received power in the signal and it must not be swamped by noise. i.e. the SNR must be at least a minimum value
Connection speed The data rate established between the modem and DSLAM at the exchange when synchronisation takes place. This is the maximum data rate that can be maintained point to point between the modem and DSAM Kbps or Mbps Note data throughput (speed test results will be lower due to overheads)
Signal to Noise Margin This is where I get a bit grey...but as I see it...
SNR Margin = Required SNR + a Margin for variations in noise levels. dB SNRM To maintain a given data rate the modem required sufficient Rx Power with a high enough SNR to enable it to decode the signal. Given that noise levels fluctuate the SNRM figure is used to ensure a stable connection.
Target Signal to Noise Margin Again a bit grey...
Given the historical noise fluctuations on your line this figure is set by the DLM (Dynamic Line Management (a misnomer if ever there was one)) to ensure a stable connection. dB Target SNRM

To summarise all this.
As your data rate increases the line attenuation for that signal also increases.
Therefore you will lose more of your signal and so your Signal to noise ratio will reduce.
If the SNR falls below a certain level you will start to get errors/packet loss etc. If this happens the DLM will reduce your profile and therefore your throughput speed until it sees a period of sustained improvement.
The only way to avoid/minimise the chances of this is to
a) Reduce your data rate. This is what DLM does through profiling.
b) Reduce noise levels by using quality cable, minimising joints, ensuring good separation from power lines and other electrical devices.
c) Make sure you run modem from master socket, remove bell wire etc.
d) Increase Transmit power level. This will raise your signal out of the noise. Unfortunately we can't control this.
e) Presumably some modems will be more sensitive than others and so better at digging low signal levels out of noise?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 07-Apr-11 11:38:51
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Re: DSLAM Profile question


[re: deleted] [link to this post]
 
No because, the phone line does not fly like a crow, but wriggles up and down the road

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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