In reply to a post by john2007:

You need to track down the cause of the mid-morning noise (which is causing your SNR margin drop).

Does anything in your house switch on at that time? Microwave, central heating, recording etc.

Does anything nearby create radio interference at that time?

Have proved it isn't my cordless phone as it's not in use and the problem is still evident.
I did have a small breakthrough in that at the last occurence, an hour or so ago, I noticed a couple of "pips" on my wired phone even though it was on hook. On going off hook I noticed a crackling on the line. Did a quiet line test and it was indeed noisy. Checked router stats and it had seen a drop in noise figure down to about 4dB at the same time. So it's quite definitley noise related.
I moved the corded phone to the NTE5 socket and quiet line test was still noisy. Removed faceplate and tried from test socket and it was quiet. Put it back together and it was also quiet, so no hard proof there. I have tried several time going from test socket back to faceplate socket, disconnecting the extension wiring from the back of the faceplate and everything.
I can't conclusivly prove it's internal but I have been unable to get any noise on a quiet line test from the test socket. I do get some instances of noise on the line when I use the faceplate. I just can't get it to do it consistently so I don't know if it's the faceplate itself (doubt it as I have 2, one adsl and one ordinary faceplate and both are same), the extension wiring or ??? nothing else it can be is there??
I did completely disconnect the extension wiring for a few days testing and the problem was still evident.
I don't think it's anything electrical in the house causing it. I have cycled the freezer off and on and it makes no difference, same with everything I can think of.
Everything wired up and line is quiet now.
Pulling my teeth out would be more fun and probably more productive at the monet as I'm going in circles.
I was ready to shout BT but now I'm not so sure

How is your BT IP profile? As long as it is stable there's not really anything to worry about. I'd only get concerned if it keeps dropping because of low sync rates.

In reply to a post by john2007:

How is your BT IP profile? As long as it is stable there's not really anything to worry about. I'd only get concerned if it keeps dropping because of low sync rates.

My current profile is 5.5, speed tests around 5Mbps.
I have been over 6Mbps on speed tests in the past.
My concern is that if I keep getting noise hits on the line my profile will get worse.

Just to clear something in my mind...

Is it true to say that every time my modem resyncs (either resart or reconnection) it will sync at the Maximum rate achievable at that time given the current line conditions; Noise, attenuation etc. and taking into account any faulty equipment on the line such as filters etc.?

And that the sync speed is not limited by IP profile or any other limiting perameter set by the operator?

And once synced at a certain speed that the max throughput is limited to this speed minus overheads untill a faster sync is achieved?
Does the sync speed rise dynamicaly/automaticaly if conditions improve or does a resync have to be initiated to get the benefit of the improved conditions?

If I have this right then my sync speed of 6784kbps is pretty consistent, give or take a small margin, every time I resync.
So is it true to say that.. Unless and untill I achive a sync speed in a higher profile bracket I will be limited to a profile speed of 5.5mbps?

I am still getting regular spikes in my stats indeed at 2am today it was spiking to zero for about 10 mins. After the event my sync and noise figures settle back down so don't apear to be affecting my profile, at least in the short term. My only question is could they be stoppping it going up?

I am now back to connecting through NTE5 test socket and, to be honest haven't so far had any noise spikes since I connected at 8:50Am. So regular morning spike hasn't happened so far. Sync and noise figures the same as connecting normaly.

Sorry if I'm going over old ground again but I just want to get it clear in my thick head

it will sync at the Maximum rate achievable at that time given the current line conditions

correct. It won't go up from there unless restarted in order to try again, but it will fall back to a lower speed if conditions deteriorate. It won't recover from that without a retrain either. The target noise margin is of course a factor, and that can vary from the default 6 dB to as high as 15.

Unless and untill I achive a sync speed in a higher profile bracket I will be limited to a profile speed of 5.5mbps?

correct again. The profile speed reflects the lowest sync speed you've seen recently. The system is designed for stability, if every night you drop to the equivalent of a 5500 profile then it wants to stay at 5500 24/7.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

The target noise margin is of course a factor, and that can vary from the default 6 dB to as high as 15.

Thanks Phil, I'm getting there

My target noise margin is quite high (Reading it after sync shows between 14 & 15dB).
It stays there pretty consistently (around 14.2dB) apart from a couple of times a day when it drops dramaticaly, sometimes causing a retrain.
So when I retrain it will sync at the max speed it can to achive the target noise margin?
This will only change if better noise figures are seen for a period of time?
I'm just trying to figure if my target noise margin is high because my line is generaly noisy or if it's these spikes that are causing the problem. They can last for up to 10 minutes but generaly just a minute or so acording to my RouterStats.

Hmmm.
Not a blip in my stats since 0900 this morning when I connected to the test socket.

Current stats:

BlueEther's stats checker at http://adsl.tin2tin.net thinks my line is made of [color=orange]pretty standard wiring that could have seen better days.[/color]
Can you help me fix my line?

http://adsl.tin2tin.net/yourstats.php?statsID=151401

Please submit your stats with at least 6 hours uptime for the best results.
If your line is too unstable to gain 6 hours then here is an interpretation of the submitted stats:
[color=red]Down sync is low (35% of the theoretical maximum).[/color]
[color=red]Very high SNR at 14.4 down / 24 up.[/color]
[color=red]SN margins vary by too much.[/color]
[color=green]Attenuation looks normal.[/color]
[color=green]Output power looks normal.[/color]
There are a few FEC errors.

Text

1 23 45 67 89 1011 1213 1415 1617 1819 2021 22

Uptime:                 5h 38m 10s Modulation:             G.DMT - Interleaved on Annex A                                (Up Stream)     /       (Down Stream) Sync:                           448     /       6784Data Transferred:               /       Attenuation:                    15      /       24SN Margin:                              24      /       14.4 Power:                                  12.1    /       19.8Vendor:                                 /       Modem:                  an unknown modem with adslctlLoF:                                    0       /       0 LoS:                                    0       /       0Error Sec.:                             0       /       1 FEC (Uncorrected):                      30FEC (Corrected):                                51805 FEC (RS Counter):                       85379334  HEC (Errors):                           2       /       2Data Cells:                             0       /       619698  CRC (SFerr):                                    6       /       2 Supper Frames:                  1255595 /       1255578

Check Error SecondsYou have had 1 seconds in which errors happened in the last 5h 38m 10s on the down link.
That is an average of 20,290 seconds between each errored second.


* Error Seconds on the upstream are kept on the DSLAM so are imposable to diagnose problems from our end.

Check FEC ErrorsKnown as Forward Error Corrections, these are error corrections implemented by the interleaving process between the modem and DSLAM in the exchange.


The firmware on your Thompson Speedtouch has a bug in it that miss-represents the FEC up errors, please ignore these errors
There have been 0.0607% FEC errors on the downstream since your last resync
As these errors are corrected errors thy are not necessarily something to worry about but might slow your throughput down as the router has to correct the errors before passing them on to your PC.

Check CRC ErrorsKnown as a cyclic redundancy check this is used to verify the proper frame transmission between the transmitting and receiving end.
These errors often mean that data has to be retransmitted and will slow the throughput transmission down. In extreme cases can lead to disconnections.


There have been 6 CRC errors on the upstream.


There have been 2 CRC errors on the downstream.


* CRC errors on the upstream are kept on the DSLAM so are imposable to diagnose problems from our end.

Check HEC ErrorsUsed to check and rectify the cell headers, if these errors are too high it will slow the throughput transmission down.


There have been 2 HEC errors on the upstream*.


There have been 2 HEC errors on the downstream.
That is 0.0003% of the data cells.

* HEC errors on the upstream are kept on the DSLAM so are imposable to diagnose problems from our end.


Equipment CheckIt is recommended that you check all of your equipment for faults:
Check (and swap if possable) all ADSL filters, extension cables/sockets, the DSL cable that connects the modem and the modem its self.

This helps to eliminate any internal issues that are not directly related to the phone wiring.
Quiet Line TestIt is recommended that you do a quiet line test:
This is done by connecting a corded analogue phone and dialling 17070 opt 2.
This needs to be done in the test socket, this can be found behind the faceplate of the master socket.
Don't use an ADSL filter
If you don't have a test socket disconnect all other equipment from the line.

There should be no noise on the line, any pops, crackles, hiss or hum etc will need to be reported to BT or who you pay line rental to as a "vioce fault".
Make sure that it is not an issue with the phone or any other equipment connected to the line or BT OpenReach will charge around £130 for the call out.
Monitor your LineIt is recommended that you monitor your line if support have increased SN margin targets, if you have had BT out to fix a voice fault you may wish to change back to the standard profile and continue to monitor your line for excessive errors or dropped connections.

Some good tools for monitoring many routers:
RouterStatsLite
DMT
Or you could try Tone a tool that I have written.
Test SocketIt is recommended that you test your connection from the test socket. This can be found behind the faceplate of the master socket.
If the stats vary a great deal from those in the master socket or an extension then you need to look into improving your internal wiring.


Above image © yesyesuk, used by kind permission.
Internal WiringIt is recommended that you check and remove the ring wire. The ring wire is a legacy of old phones that could not produce their own ring and needed a separate voltage to ring the bells. This is no longer needed for modern phones, and the ADSL filter also provides this function as a fall-over.

For the best operation of ADSL2+ there should only be two wires connected at each end of any extension socket. They are usually the blue and white/blue pair and should be connected to terminals 2 & 5. The BT line will also be connected to 2 & 5 on the old style master socket and on the new NTE5 master will be connected to A & B on the back section. It is safe and within your rights to remove any wiring that is after where the BT line terminates at the master.

The ring wire is normally orange in colour and will be connected to terminal 3 of the faceplate, this needs to be removed at each end, along with any other wires.

All extension wiring should be of a good quality solid core wire and be twisted pair. The flat DIY extensions from B&Q etc will very quickly kill the ADSL2+ signals so will need to be replaced for the best functioning ADSL.
After you have compleated the above and if you have problems with your connection to your ISP it is recommended that you start a thread at your ISP's forum in the speed and connection section (for Be* that can be found here: Be Speed & Line Issues ) with the stats that you used here, and a description of your problems. The summary in the first tab has a BBcode cut and past section if you forun supports BBcode.

Less errors as well

Looks like I have an internal problem.
Could it be my filters? I have several old ones and a just aquired ADSL v1.0 adsl faceplate (not sure how old it is thoughg as I was given it by a friend "in the trade".
I know it could be my fgilters but what are the chances of all of them being duff? and are they likely to cause intermittent spikes in my noise/signal levels?

I'm leaving to work in France for a few weeks tomorow so won't be around for a while.
I'm leaving it in test socket for the duration to see what happens to my profile while I'm away.

Thanks to all for the help so far. I'll be in danger of knowing what I'm talking about soon

Enjoy your holiday.

Can someone explain the relationship between Target Noise Margin and Sync Speed please?
Does a high Target Noise Margin limit your possible Sync Speed or will it sync at the highest possible rate acording to the noise levels at the time regardless of the Target Noise Margin?
In other words, if I re sync at a time when I have low noise on the line will it sync at a higher rate or will the sync be limited because I had noise on the line before and the target was set high because of it?

In reply to a post by john2007:

Enjoy your holiday.

Holiday? I'm going out to work