In reply to a post by Pheasant:

With due respect, and doubtless I get get pilloried by the majority demographic (on here anyway), but extension wiring….like it’s 2023. It’s so niche no ISP other than good old A&A can be bothered dishing out instructions.

The majority demographic here, or that in the whole country?

Please don't take this as saying that you're one, because it absolutely isn't, but that thinking is partly that of the DGAS BT morons I mentioned before.

Their "demographic" is that nobody uses landlines for voice. It is that nobody uses landlines for alarms of any type. Because they don't.

It is that everybody has a mobile phone and good coverage. Because they do.

It is that everybody has a good, and reliable, broadband service which they use. Because they do.

They are morons, because they assume that the entire country is like them, and they DGAS about the fact that it is not.

In reply to a post by binary:

There was also the advice about ensuring people have a wired phone alongside their cordless one in case of a power cut (advice which is defunct in a post-PSTN world!)

The BT morons DGAS about power-cuts, as they all live somewhere where they are rare, and short duration, so they assume it's like that everywhere.

There's also the somewhat niche but quite real issue of buildings with thick walls.

The BT morons DGAS about thick walls because they all live in places without them, so they assume it's like that everywhere.

I can well imagine, as the switch to DV goes on, some people being quite surprised that all their intricate home extension wiring suddently means nowt (unless they opt for a voice reinjection solution).

The BT morons DGAS about analogue extension wiring because they don't have any, so they assume it's like that everywhere.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

Openreach did trial a number of voice reinjection (VRI) faceplates which allowed a VoIP / Digital Voice analogue phone service to be connected to the fixed house extension wiring.

However, with the introduction of the NTE5c premises could have an NTE5c, an original NTE5 or an older style master socket so it isn't just a case of the ISP sending out one type of replacement service-specific faceplate (SSFP) which the customer could swap, it would either require the customer to correctly identify what type of master socket they have and/or an engineer visit.

Given the continued reduction in use of fixed wiring, e.g. many premises will have a cordless phones with a DECT base so it only requires the connection from that to the master socket to be moved to the ISP router phone socket, I suspect that VRI SSFPs were quietly dropped.

You can buy them on eBay.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

a lot of people will get rid of the home phone, I think, the only reason most people have one is that it was available

One reason I have them is that I valued the reliability of the old POTS system.

But it seems that the DGAS morons at BT don't value it, so they assume that nobody does.

Rather than blaming BT you may want to review Ofcom’s guide

In reply to a post by Erwins_pussy:

You can buy them on eBay.

There are plenty of NTE5A and NTE5C sockets plus xDSL faceplates for both, but I've never seen a voice reinjection faceplate listed.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

You still need a demarcation point, i.e. somewhere to plug the copper uplink for the router, and you still need the surge arrester that's in the master box.

I stumbled across an NTE5C 'TearDown' on You Tube, and Openreach now seem to have ditched the Surge Arrester ? (And no soldered components, all rather 'Chad Valley' )

https://youtu.be/jD67a-ZC7VY?t=162

Edited by broadbandjockey (Sat 25-Nov-23 17:36:05)

No, because this would be irrelevant as you'll still need your BT Smart Hub 2 router to connect for digital voice.

Also, with FTTP being upgraded why would Openreach install a new NTE for FTTC that uses DV?
Alternatively there's a solution to have what you want and that's a Digital Voice Adapter. https://www.bt.com/help/user-guides/phones/digital-v...
This allows you to plug in to a power socket and still get a Telephone Socket that works via a wireless Digital Voice service. But this will only work with a BT Smart Hub 2 router.

However, no doubt that for the elderly people this will be a problem, especially the ones with Alzheimer's disease/dementia. They will need to be technical and know how to either connect the wireless Alexa digital handset phone as it will need initial WPS registration with router or they need help with someone plugging their phone to the router.

There's also one further drawback that you're forced to use only the ISP router and for those elderly people who are not interested in broadband have no choice but to still opt for a broadband service since they need Digital Voice.

This is why the purpose of an NTE faceplate is defeated since DV is very much reliant on a broadband connection. There's no way you can have a faceplate without it connecting to the actual internet service. That is also another reason Openreach want to retire analogue so they don't have to deal not only with the outdated copper cables but also the extra faceplate dependency that requires a phone port. The only way to effectively retire the copper line for good while still retaining a phone service is to have Digital Voice. This has been made with FTTP in mind. No one wants to have to deal with a separate copper line just for analogue voice.

My biggest complaint isn't the lack of a separate telephone port on the socket for DV but the dependency to use a BT Smart Hub 2 router or the actual ISP router. This can be a big problem for people who want to use their router. Because as you know you can't disable automatic firmware upgrades with most ISP routers. If router fails and you don't have a backup then the DV telephone service ceases to works.

I like DV and certainly this is the future. But I'd like compatibility with future third party routers. For example the wireless phone should've been made to work with a third party router via a WiFi registration in the same way that does now. Except that this isn't a WiFi device but a special wireless service only for the phone. It shouldn't be exclusively tied to the ISP router because then you have to give up the phone should you want to use your own router.

Edited by BLaZiNgSPEED (Sun 26-Nov-23 01:47:20)

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

. . . those elderly people who are not interested in broadband have no choice but to still opt for a broadband service since they need Digital Voice.

Not true. The ISP will have to supply some way for the customer to connect but there is no compulsion to take on an internet service to maintain a phone connection. That is the ISP's problem. The most likely way forward is that the ISP will provide a basic router with phone socket or ATA and then enable a broadband service locked down to 1MBps or less. The customer is not opting for this solution, it is the provider's solution to maintaining the service. This will be required to be provided at no cost to the customer.

Non-technical people will require help to set this up and it will be interesting to see what arrangements are made for such people with landline phones on extensions elsewhere in the house.

Edited by GonePostal (Sun 26-Nov-23 08:57:38)

For people who have an existing POTS landline-only service from BT, BT/OR are installing media gateways in exchanges to allow the existing service to continue post Dec-2025.

You won't be able to order it as a new service though. Eventually the existing users will be gone, so that should not affect the long-term exchange closure programme.

Does anyone order a new voice-only landline service these days? If they do, I expect they'll be recommended to buy broadband with a digital voice service included, from the likes of BT, Sky, Vodafone or Zen.