Plusnet FTTP Woes

At present I am on a fully copper ADSL connection with speeds of 10mbs. I am still in contract, but ultimately negotiated a new contract for the lowest tier of full fibre and the contract would start after the FTTP had been installed.

My home is in a poor condition caused by all the tradesmen I have used in the past and have only noticed problems some weeks, months or years after the so called tradesmen have left. I have learnt to live with the conditions.

This being said I am limited in what I will now allow. I will give the Openreach engineer or representative an option of removing two satellite cable wires where there is considerable room to thread their cable, but because fibre cable is inherently fragile he may refuse due to the diagonal angle the wires use to get outside or he may have other reasons.

I want to keep the appointment to at least give the engineer this option or hear what he suggests, but I am not holding out much hope.

PlusNet have already told me under no circumstances can I stay on my old ADSL contract that still has three months to run. If I do not have FTTP they will cut me off and charge a termination fee !

How can they stop my service and at the same time charge a termination fee when I am prepared to stay with them until the end of my contract

In reply to a post by sadguy:

I will give the Openreach engineer or representative an option of removing two satellite cable wires

Why don't you or a family member or friend remove the satellite cables, asking an Openreach engineer to do it is unfair as there are all sorts of ramifications if they do.

But leaving them in could allow Openreach to use them as a pull line so could make the job easier.

In reply to a post by ian72:

But leaving them in could allow Openreach to use them as a pull line so could make the job easier.

Ian, I expected more from you! suggesting an Openreach guy should use a satellite cable (running through a wall) to pull a fibre cable through is nuts.

Had you not negotiated a new contract, I don't think they could charge you a termination fee on the old contract for them (or Openreach) deciding that you need to migrate to FTTP. Presumably the termination fee is against the new contract; which could be cancelled within 14 days of it being made.

I assume that you don't have a landline or are willing to forego it as Plusnet don't provide digital voice.

Openreach (or their contractor) won't remove cables for other services. They often won't even remove copper openreach cables unless they intend to use the same cable route so you should remove them and ask the installer to use the route, which he may do if he thinks it is practical.

Thanks for the replys and sorry for the delay in responding.Things are gradually getting clearer. I did have an appointment booked for FTTP for last week but on the day before it was scheduled I received a text nessage from a company I have never heard of who would be doing the work on behalf of Openreach. I looked at their website and two Plusnet agents said they had never heard of the company . Looking at their website it shows they also have various activities seperate from telecomms work , so I declined and have rebooked with Plusnet in the hopes I will get someone else.
Plusnet say I can have a total of three engineer visits If I draw it out, by the time they have all been my old contract will have expired and I can leave them. The engineer completes a form at the end of each visit and if he is unable to find suitable sockets to use or not agree to using the space of the satellite cables etc which are close to the mains sockets, or we cannot agree in general he can suggest if he thinks appropriate SOGEA even though I am in a FTTP area as only the landlines are being switched off at the end of the year

Plusnet would have to raise a request via the Openreach "exceptions process" to allow SOGEA install in an FTTP priority area at a property where FTTP is available.

This is only granted in unusual circumstances: perhaps because of high excess construction charges (e.g. it would involve digging up and reinstating 50 metres of block paved driveway)

"Customer does not like the idea of a new hole in their wall for FTTP" may not be a good enough reason. I'm just saying that to prepare you.

However, if the existing satellite cables are unused, and you tell the engineer they can simply cut the cable on both sides and pull the piece of cable out, they'll quite likely be happy to re-use the hole (it saves them some work). Generally they are pretty accommodating to customer requests for cable routing, unless it has some safety issues (e.g. the hole is high up on the wall and you refuse to allow a ladder anchor to be drilled).

If the location of the hole is not suitable - e.g. there's no power for the ONT nearby - then you'll need a new hole drilled anyway.

If you really want the ONT where the old hole is but there's no power there, then run an extension lead to that place and say "this is temporary, I'm getting an electrician to install a new power socket here". If that's not true, then there are other options - e.g. some people choose to use a PoE injector to power the ONT over CAT5e. But you still need to run a CAT5e cable to wherever the router is, of course.

Ultimately, it's a case of everyone being reasonable all round, both engineer and householder. Openreach *do* use contractors; some of them are even quite good. I don't think you should cancel an appointment on that basis alone.

Don't forget the benefits of FTTP. Even if you don't take any faster speed, it will be more reliable and consistent than SOGEA. You should weigh that up against the small inconvenience of an ONT and/or possible extra hole.

And finally, there's the long term. You can expect that Openreach will want to decommission the copper network where FTTP is available, and I would expect two things:

1. OFCOM to give Openreach permission to charge higher and higher rates for copper services where FTTP is available
2. Service providers to refuse to sell SOGEA where FTTP is available

So you can expect your costs to go up, and your choice of service providers to go down (which also means you cannot access the best deals). And in the worst case, you may lose your service completely.

Why not just get FTTP installed now, and then you never have to worry about this again?

is the satellite cable hole, near to ground level?

Thanks again for your replys. The two satellite cables enter the house via the side of the bay window.itself. The window is not disturbed, just the brickwork immediately adjacent. There is also a 4 gang power socket approximately 4-5 feet nearby. However this option for fibre even if it were possible is a worry as its a suntrap, and also gets most of the rain. Where I live the temperatures this summer has been a constant 30 to 35C.However a nearby freeview cable which enters the same side of the bay window , a few inches away from the others has been there for at least 40 years !
I would not have my concrete driveway dugup for Fibre, it is 6 inches thick, nor my garden.
There are no other power sockets at the front of the house eg: hallway.The router is in a room at the back of the house on the ground floor.
I would also decline him drilling from the outside above the power socket because it is wired via the cavity in the wall.
My house is a "problem", there isn't much good about it (an understatement) and I wouldn't want to enter a claims process to get money back if he were to damage the wires.
In fact ,the only thing that has been constantly reliable, is my fully copper broadband. The street cabinet is only about 100 yards max from my house, 2 telegraph poles away ,excliuding the one that serves my property.
Remember, I have had FTTP "offerred" to me with no other options I would be prepared to pay more than double that price for SOGEA. I will see what the engineer says on the day regarding my property. Plusnet have already told me that the engineer will make suggestions to me if FTTP does not go ahead.

Edited by sadguy (Thu 13-Aug-26 16:34:57)

Discuss with the installation engineer upon their arrival your thoughts (and also note your concerns) about the cable route. For most part it won’t be their “first rodeo” and from what you’ve described so far it seems eminently possible and sensible to use the existing hole(s) from the now defunct satellite coax cables.

The installation engineer should be able to evaluate and suggest any alternatives as necessary (that you may not have considered or thought possible). At the end of the day it’s a discussion, and they want a satisfied customer/no complaints. So if you’re not entirely comfortable with the engineer’s suggested installation / cable routing / equipment placement and you can’t come to an agreement - well it’s your house and you can always cancel the appointment.

I wouldn’t worry too much about much about the location being a sun-trap or prone to rain; as long as the new fibre cable is sealed with mastic against the brickwork that should be fine. If the coax cables have survived there 40-odd years as you claim, then the fibre cable will also be fine - these cables are designed and rated for external installation, and have a multiple sheath construction that allows them to be pared back for safe internal installation - so called ‘inside-out’ cables.

Now a point from your last post, if you’re intending to keep the router in its current position and the ONT will be located on the inside wall near to where to cable enters the building - how will you connect the ONT to the router? Do you have an existing Cat5e network cable between the two locations - or are you proposing to route the fibre cable internally to the router location and place the ONT there?

Thanks for the latest posting. The router in the backroom is in a position where I have always kept my routers. Does have a cat5e Ethernet cable connected through to the room with the bay widow, and can reach the bay window. I will be looking to replace the cable at some stage.

I doubt the engineer will be able to offer another location. The existing copper line is bought into the house via the top corner of the front door as it has been with previous doors. This time the door installer boxed it in to the door internally.

The front door leads to the hallway and the nearest plug socket is at least 18 feet away which is opposite the room I have the router in. He won’t want to do anything there, as he would need to drill through the outside wall into the pantry , where the gas and electric meters are ,and then through an internal wall.

I am not a very good judge of character based on my previous experiences with tradesmen, but I have thought through this fibre situation a lot in recent months. If he can think of another suitable place I will certainly consider it. A possible alternative to the side of the bay window where it meets the brickwork would be further down the same side of the bay window necessitating a hole to be drilled through the brickwork which would only be about 3 feet distance from the 4 gang socket. However based on what I have written in previous postings I am not going to suggest this unless he does so first.

Thank you also for the other information

Alot of what you said, is hard to understand as we are going form your worded description.

I understand your concerns about a contractor coming into your house - i get that completely. but this is a single hole, and you have completely over complicated it.

If i was you, i would gohead with the install, if you and the engineer can't find a solution that is fine but at least you will have a better idea what someobdy else whos does the job on a daily basis thinks what can be done.

Take a brave step forward.

In reply to a post by Taras:

I understand your concerns about a contractor coming into your house - i get that completely. but this is a single hole, and you have completely over complicated it.

If i was you, i would go head with the install, if you and the engineer can't find a solution that is fine but at least you will have a better idea what somebody else who does the job on a daily basis thinks what can be done.

Take a brave step forward.

Well said Taras

Original poster here.

The engineer arrived one hour early, in a van that appeared to have no markings that I could see.
Had no identification on the front of his uniform as to what company he represented, no personal identfication either, said it was in the van.

I had cleared the area for him to use, but he said he could not remove the cables or use the space that they occupied. He had a quick look in the hallway, no plug sockets. So that was it. He seemed in a hurry to leave which is near enough exactly what I thought would happen.This all happened in a time period of less than 5 minutes

Got on to Plusnet and reluctantly cancelled my interest in FTTP. The interesting part was because I had gone through an engineers visit I would be able to see out my fully copper existing contract until the end of its term and with no termination fees !

Edited by sadguy (Thu 27-Aug-26 13:50:05)

I suspect that in 3 months time you might well have the option of no internet, or having FTTP.

What a waste of his and your time.

The engineer arrived one hour early, in a van that appeared to have no markings that I could see.
Had no identification on the front of his uniform as to what company he represented, no personal identfication either, said it was in the van.

Then, were it me, I would not have let them in until they provided their ID.

In reply to a post by sadguy:

Original poster here.

The engineer arrived one hour early, in a van that appeared to have no markings that I could see.
Had no identification on the front of his uniform as to what company he represented, no personal identfication either, said it was in the van.

Can you report this back to Plusnet please, as this shouldn't have happened.

In reply to a post by sadguy:

My home is in a poor condition caused by all the tradesmen I have used in the past and have only noticed problems some weeks, months or years after the so called tradesmen have left. I have learnt to live with the conditions.

This being said I am limited in what I will now allow. I will give the Openreach engineer or representative an option of removing two satellite cable wires where there is considerable room to thread their cable, but because fibre cable is inherently fragile he may refuse due to the diagonal angle the wires use to get outside or he may have other reasons.

a couple of questions

is your property a single story (aka bungalow) or a standard two story house?

where does the coax cable enter the property, at ground level or higher?

Have you got any one who could help you to remove the the said coax cables ?

Out of interest how many FTTP jobs did you turn up for that you had to push back because of the customers property layout and where there was no possible install solution?

I know you know, but all indications are that this was an OR subcontractor - no names - who are neither paid nor incentivised to complete anything other than the most dead simple and straightforward jobs.

Otherwise they just lose money for their employer and do themselves no favours. This is what pay by the job gets you. So these jobs will get eventually reassigned to actual employed in-house OR engineers. Who as we hopefully know are far more patient, considered, professional and well just capable.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I know you know, but all indications are that this was an OR subcontractor - no names - who are neither paid nor incentivised to complete anything other than the most dead simple and straightforward jobs.

Otherwise they just lose money for their employer and do themselves no favours. This is what pay by the job gets you. So these jobs will get eventually reassigned to actual employed in-house OR engineers. Who as we hopefully know are far more patient, considered, professional and well just capable.

Agree subbies are typically not good but there is some responsibility on the customer not to scare the subcontractor off or give them a get out of jail card. I don't think I would have called the ISP afterwards and cancelled the job, I think I would have enlightened the ISP about the engineers attitude and asked the ISP to get an Openreach engineer on the next visit.

Not many, most issues where due to customers having unreasonable demands as to location, or how cables were run.
More often than not, you could reach some compromise.

The OP appeared just to not have it installed no matter what . For reasons I cannot fathom.

We are only getting one side of the story. In my view, an easy pull through and simple siting, subby would have been all over it like a set of badly fitting overalls. That the subby scarpered without cashing out with an external splice point and a kickback to Openreach suggests to me that it wasn't that straightforward.

Edited by FibreBubble (Fri 28-Aug-26 21:39:18)

In reply to a post by sadguy:

Thanks again for your replys. The two satellite cables enter the house via the side of the bay window.itself. The window is not disturbed, just the brickwork immediately adjacent.

could we have a picture of said area. It may help in helping you.

In reply to a post by FibreBubble:

We are only getting one side of the story. In my view, an easy pull through and simple siting, subby would have been all over it like a set of badly fitting overalls. That the subby scarpered without cashing out with an external splice point and a kickback to Openreach suggests to me that it wasn't that straightforward.

I just rechecked what the OP has said about the window, because i was worried he wanted it to go thru an existing hole that is in the a upvc frame - but hes sayings thru brick work.


the most damage we have seen an OR contractor do is blow brick out. And we have to remember that this is a single hole

Personally I would make a fresh start and I would ignore my dissatisfaction with the existing/redundant cables, (which you can then either live with as you do now or you can remove or can have them removed at a later date to suit you).

I would treat this new FTTP installation as a fresh start but you do have a few constraints and the first limitation is the way in which the new FTTP cable travels down the street to get to your house.

You indicated that you have telegraph poles and then you said you do not want your path or garden disturbed but unless you have underground ducting in your area, (which is what we have to our home - we do not have or want any telegraph poles), the grounds around your home would not need to be disturbed because the cable will probably run from the same telegraph pole to the same location/bracket on your house that the existing ADSL cable already runs to. - (If it had needed to run via the garden it would not have been a did deal as gardens/grass soon recovers).

From that bracket location you then have a few decisions to make.

(1). How do you want the fibre cable to move around the outside wall of your house?

(2). Where do you want the fibre cable to enter your house?

Personally, (if you do not want to have a new electrical socket installed), I would choose a location on the exterior wall of the house where an electrical socket already exists inside of the house and that would be the location that the new ONT is installed near to the existing electrical socket. - A new hole could be drilled through the wall near to the existing electrical socket. - A junction box/slice box would be fitted on the outside wall to cover the new hole and the new FTTP cable could be run externally from the cable bracket to the new junction boxed, sliced and then enter the house to feed the new ONT.

The new router would them be sited next to this new ONT and would just connect via WIFI until when/if you use ethernet cables.

You can then, if you wish to keep to, your existing ADSL contract running until it ends and use FTTP at the same time or you may have decided to just change over to FTTP immediately and no longer bother using ADSL.

I can see plusnet terminating your contract at the end of the 3 month period leaving you with no internet at all

OFCOM are currently removing the maximum costs openreach can charge for legacy products especially where FTTP is available
Openreach are also giving ISP BIG discounts to get them to move their customers to a FTTP product
Its not just a case of paying double or triple for sogea ofcom wont let them and I doubt plusnet will let you keep a service they need to contribute to the cost of supplying.

Pull the satellite cable out yourself I am sure they would then use that socket.

On the subcontractor openreach are currently moving to an outsourcing model and making many of their engineers redundant MJ Quinn are the major contractor for them so dont be surprised if they turn up to do the install.

PM me which area you live if you want further info.

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

OFCOM are currently removing the maximum costs openreach can charge for legacy products especially where FTTP is available

Some additional context for the OP - this recent change to the rules which means that Openreach have to reach 90% of FTTP coverage (rather than 100%) of the exchange area, before price controls on copper products can be removed, doesn’t come into effect until April 2029. It’s discussed in this thread and the full announcement with all the details is here.

Edited by Pheasant (Fri 11-Sep-26 07:10:45)

On the subcontractor openreach are currently moving to an outsourcing model and making many of their engineers redundant

(my bold)

That might be ‘making good copy’ … but is wholly untrue.
What Openreach are doing is offering Early Voluntary Redundancy packages to those who wish to take them.

With exception of the opening paragraph, which is only partly true - and already known by the OP the rest of the post you and I have quoted is factually inaccurate.

Yes offering voluntary redundancy (and actually sending engineers to mjquinn for interview) as they are outsourcing their needs
Openreach hope to make 55,000 employees redundant and get engineer levels down to below 10,000 staff

are you saying these 55,000 staff are just PTSN staff that dont want to move from system x

are you saying these 55,000 staff are just PTSN staff that dont want to move from system x

No, I am saying your statement,

making many of their engineers redundant

, is incorrect. They are being offered EVR.

That these are PSTN only staff is further flim-flam.

With BT massively recruiting over more recent years so they could deliver FTTP to the masses, it was always going to be the case that once they had got to a significant point in that rollout they would need to reduce their staffing numbers backdown again. Glad to hear they started with Early Voluntary Redundancy first rather than going straight to Compulsory Redundancy.

There was always bound to be a reduction in Openreach Staff after the FTTP Rollout is complete because FTTP will require much less ongoing infrastructure repairs than the old FTTC systems did because FTTP is far more reliable.

Years ago, it always seemed ridiculous to me that many years after the rest of the EU had fully embraced FTTP that Openreach/BT were allowed to still hold on tightly to FTTC and they were reluctant to roll out FTTP.

It was always the case that all of the good legislation came out of the EU and all of the [censored] came out of Westminster but in 2016 in a Gerry Mandered Referendum in which a paddling 17.4 million people out of a possible 66 million people, (about 37%), voted to leave the EU in an ADVISORY referendum the idiots in Westminster forced us to leave.

At least our government eventually saw sense and they pressed Openreach/BT etc. to roll out FTTP.

Like it or not FTTP is coming and just as King Canute could not hold back the tide, eventually, most of those who are reluctant to have FTTP will have very few alternative but at the end of the day FTTP is much better from an internet viewpoint.

There is a case to be made with regard to landline phones for vulnerable people and I am not sure how that will be accommodated.

Edited by Fido (Fri 11-Sep-26 22:35:32)

Not sure that the choice of signing up for 'voluntary' redundancy with enhanced terms or being made compulsory redundant on government minimum terms in three months time is much of a choice. Or that voluntary.

Edited by FibreBubble (Fri 11-Sep-26 21:41:54)

It also seems funny that if these jobs dont exist due to end of fttp rollout why they are contracting mj quinn to do the work and getting openreach emplotees jobs at mjquinn.

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

It also seems funny that if these jobs dont exist due to end of fttp rollout why they are contracting mj quinn to do the work and getting openreach employees jobs at mjquinn.

This is standard practice, downsizing and using third party resource to fill any temporary gaps isn't surprising specially when you consider Openreach's technology road map.

I should also add that large employers who are making people redundant often employ recruitment companies to work on a one to one basis with staff affected to help them find new jobs, I know of one employer who provided this service for a year after the redundancy and also offered to pay for training to facilitate a career change.

Edited by PCJM40 (Sat 19-Sep-26 15:59:39)