In terms of absolute latency maybe, but stable is a good start

Hi Roberto.

This just looks like a long rant against a poster rather than exploring the issue. Something that I am sure the site disapproves of.

The issue raised was whether Vivaciti rent any backhaul whatsoever let alone offering more than BT or o2? Or whether they simply pick up referrals to other operators?

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-May-11 21:36:12)

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

The issue raised was whether Vivaciti rent any backhaul whatsoever

I'd assume that Vivaciti rent their backhaul from exactly the same organisation that BT Retail rent theirs... but there's more to an ISP than backhaul, customer service counts for a great deal.

In reply to a post by billford:

I'd assume that Vivaciti rent their backhaul from exactly the same organisation that BT Retail rent theirs... but there's more to an ISP than backhaul, customer service counts for a great deal.

Does renting backhaul mean the ISP qualifies for a forum on this site?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does renting backhaul mean the ISP qualifies for a forum on this site?

That's something you'll have to take up with Seb/John, I know they're looking at the inclusion criteria but I don't know what they're considering.

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Hi Roberto.

This just looks like a long rant against a poster rather than exploring the issue. Something that I am sure the site disapproves of.

The issue being whether Vivaciti rent any backhaul whatsoever let alone offering more than BT or o2?

I'm not quite sure how and when this became "The issue", as you introduced it in the first place for no apparent reason. I am not aware of vivaciti renting any backhaul. Neither am I aware of myself ever having stated or even implied that they do. I am completely ignorant of why you introduced that question into your comments on what I said to another poster.

My understanding is that Vivaciti are a referral operator that doesn't rent any backhaul at all. They may refer to other operators on commission?

This favourite term of yours, "referral operator", is not one I can recall being used by anyone else on these forums, or elsewhere in any industry-wide discussion. As far as I know, your term "referral operator" is intended to mean Virtual ISPs (VISPs), ie reseller ISPs.

I have no objection to your using that term, but your insistence on it in many places in these forums, and the context in which you use it, does rather seem you intend it to have a pejorative meaning. Fine. If that is your intention, you are entitled to your opinion and it is no skin whatsoever off my nose.

They may rent 'NOC' space off of a second hand furniture showroom somewhere in Essex?

I have no idea about their premises, though again I haven't met the term "NOC" space in the whole of my rather long life. Explain it or not, as you wish, it doesn't really concern me.

A well-run business will normally spend as little as possible on overheads, unless they are absolutely rolling in money and wish to throw some of it about on prestigious premises. Firms who expect customer visits of course do often factor in the impression their location and premises can have, but companies trading purely on the internet may not need to. As I understand it some rather important and prestigious companies started life in garages attached to the founders houses?

Perhaps you could clarify?

Well, I've tried . Please ask again if anything isn't clear or you need any more help. Perhaps if you do, you would first like to deal with the four specific questions I asked you in that post.

I shall continue to do my best to help people who come here with problems or questions. You seem more and more frequently to be offended by this. I'm sorry if that is how my efforts affect you, but can't think of any other way to help people that won't have this effect on you.

In reference to www.ptsdcs.com/noc.asp:

A Network Operations Center, or NOC, is the primary work space engineers utilize to monitor, manage and troubleshoot problems on a network. The Network Operations Center offers oversight of problems, configuration and change management, network security, performance and policy monitoring, reporting, quality assurance, scheduling, and documentation by utilizing sophisticated network management, monitoring and analysis tools. The NOC provides a structured environment that effectively coordinates operational activities with all participants and vendors related to the function of the network. The NOC technicians typically provide support twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week.

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

The issue raised was whether Vivaciti rent any backhaul whatsoever

I'd assume that Vivaciti rent their backhaul from exactly the same organisation that BT Retail rent theirs... but there's more to an ISP than backhaul, customer service counts for a great deal.

As in my latest reply to RJ, which I started before your post was visible, I don't think vivaciti rent any backhaul directly themselves, though maybe they do.

However that subject was introduced by RJ as apparently being synonymous with "handover", ie the old BT Centrals and these days MSILs. What he didn't query was whether or not vivaciti rent capacity on MSILs, and again I don't know but doubt it. I gave him my reasons for not going into the detail of that in the third paragraph of the post he has just objected to as being a rant.

I maintain that the handover capacity per customer available on vivaciti is higher than that per customer on BT Total Broadband and Infinity.

Thanks for that BatBoy .

I wonder how the complainer comes to think that is relevant to a reseller. I would have thought that such a function was by definition carried out by the businesses whose services are resold.

I wonder how many corner shops impose full quality control procedures over the manufacture of Heinz Baked Beans?

In reply to a post by RandomJointer:

Hi Roberto.

This just looks like a long rant against a poster rather than exploring the issue. Something that I am sure the site disapproves of.

The issue raised was whether Vivaciti rent any backhaul whatsoever let alone offering more than BT or o2? Or whether they simply pick up referrals to other operators?

Nice edit. Perhaps I should reinstate in bold the bits you have removed . However, quite by chance, the unedited version is present in full in my previous reply, by piecing together the quotes I make in the order I give them.