In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by JohnR:

As the root cause of the problem was your inability to action what you requested in a realistic time frame.

Caused by Vivaciti having a regrade order on the line.

Vivaciti
The regrade from 20cn to 21cn was automated (as with most isp's) we had notified the customer of when this regrade was due to complete and said we could generate a new MAC once this had completed, we also gave the option to cancel the regrade, and once the regrade had cancelled we could issue a new MAC, but before this happened the phone had a cease order

MrSaffron
A move to orange WLR/SMPF should not require a cease, most likely arose as Orange/BT Wholesale saw the odd orders from the provider migration to 21CN and decided to cease that so customer could migrate.

So the OP was informed of timescales and what was happening, yet still went ahead. It would appear that the new isp/bt have placed the cease...
So it should be these companies who are paying up for the error...
As it would appear that they have not asked anyone, simply acted in their own interests to gain a customer.

In reply to a post by JohnR:

In reply to a post by Fastriver:

I am recovering from a heart attack, 2 stents fitted, plus other health issues and I am on sickness benefit.
I requested a MAC from Vivaciti on 13/12/2011 and confirmed with the company that it was because I was on benefit of £67.50 a week and needed to economise.
I received MAC on 21/12/2011: LCSW2595380/JM21M
I was very depressed over the Xmas period, suicidal thoughts, no family etc so was in no fit state to research and investigate migration to cheaper provider so didn�t use the MAC
.
Went into Orange shop in town on 30/01/12 and ordered Landline:Orange, Broadband:Orange.
Was told to request MAC from Vivaciti, which I did, the same day, 30/01/12. .

Do I have to pay?
Hope someone can help me please.

1st part on your health I guess you have put in to gain sympathy, as has no reverlance to what has happend.
Other than cause a lot of the problem. As had you moved quicker this would never have happened. It does not take long to check providers out, and many would argue Orange is not a good choice... But each person has their own needs out of a isp.

Sorry to be blunt there, but I just tell it as I see it.

Personally I would just stump up the cash and pay the £29.69. As the root cause of the problem was your inability to action what you requested in a realistic time frame.

Do you have access to the OP'm medical records? Do you know how his medical conditions affect his ability to cope with everyday life?

If not then don;t get on your high horse and preach on what he should have done as you are not in posession of all the facts.

To the OP get down to your local citiaens advice and get them onboard, they have access to free legal advice from solicitors and they can help you get it resolved and help you get letters written etc.

In reply to a post by Fastriver:

Perhaps it is now time for Vivaciti to contribute here.

They tend to bury there heads in the sand and hope it go's away going on past experience.

But like you said the argument is between Vivaciti and Orange, you owe nobody nothing. Let them fight it out.

If you don't pay, all that will happen is a couple of scary letters but it will be all huff and puff, nobody will come round your house and if they do they have no rights to take anything from you, they can ask for the money and you can tell them where to go and that will be the end of it. If it go's to small claims court make sure you countersue.

Make sure you print a copy of that ticket where Vivaciti admit it was not your fault that these costs have a risen.

These very rarely go to Court, for Vivaciti to take you to small claims Court it will cost them around £25, hardly worth it. I would fight this all the way.

Do you have access to the OP'm medical records? Do you know how his medical conditions affect his ability to cope with everyday life?

No - but clearly you do as you have ruled in his favour already.

I'm not suggesting for one second that the OP falls into this category but do you suggest that the company writes off every debt for someone who comes to them with a sob-story?

In reply to a post by JonRennie:

I'm not suggesting for one second that the OP falls into this category but do you suggest that the company writes off every debt for someone who comes to them with a sob-story?

I would expect a company to pursue the correct appellant from where the charge arose (Orange) and not from the easy target who can be leaned on.

In reply to a post by JohnR:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by JohnR:

As the root cause of the problem was your inability to action what you requested in a realistic time frame.

Caused by Vivaciti having a regrade order on the line.

Vivaciti
The regrade from 20cn to 21cn was automated (as with most isp's) we had notified the customer of when this regrade was due to complete and said we could generate a new MAC once this had completed, we also gave the option to cancel the regrade, and once the regrade had cancelled we could issue a new MAC, but before this happened the phone had a cease order

MrSaffron
A move to orange WLR/SMPF should not require a cease, most likely arose as Orange/BT Wholesale saw the odd orders from the provider migration to 21CN and decided to cease that so customer could migrate.

So the OP was informed of timescales and what was happening,

The OP didn't put the regrade order on the line, the ISP did. This may just a delaying tactic used by Vivaciti to obstruct the migration. Note that a valid MAC was never supplied.

Vivaciti has no contract with Orange, and Orange have no obligation to speak to them about the OP's line as Vivaciti did not supply the line in the first place (only broadband) - in fact if Vivaciti were to try and chase this with Orange, Orange *should* refuse to talk to them under the Data Protection Act.

Do you sell a service to the public.? I think I'd like to come and buy it from you and then give you all the reasons that I shouldn't bother to pay you, possibly blaming a third party.

If you're consistent in the application of 'bleeding heart' logic then I should get away with it.

Note that a valid MAC was never supplied.

I don't believe that's the case. The first MAC issued was valid, it was just never used.

They then erroneously re-issued the same MAC when the OP requested a new one (bad).

Once they realised what they had done, they then admitted they couldn't issue a new MAC because an "automated re-grade order" was now on the line. A new MAC could be issued after this was complete.

In haste, and during all this, a miscommunication happened between the OP and Orange. Since Orange had no valid MAC to use, they then proceeded with a cease and re-provide. Orange / the OP should have waited until Vivaciti could supply a valid MAC, and they should NOT have continued with the cease and re-provide without fully making the OP aware that this would incur cease charges.

A complete and utter mess, to say the least.

As I have stated here, the OP needs to pursue Orange to claim compensation for the erroneous cease they started, to then clear the debt (cease charge) with Vivaciti.

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Feb-12 11:25:46)

Couldn't have put it better myself.

In reply to a post by mixt:

Note that a valid MAC was never supplied.

I don't believe that's the case. The first MAC issued was valid, it was just never used.

That's not what Vivaciti said

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

I have looked up your account and can see that you had requested a MAC, the original MAC was invalid and this was due to a current regrade order on your line to bring it to 21cn