Sorry you got lumped with an unexpected bill. But this is 100% enta's fault and here's why.

Your phone line is being provided to SIN349 which is the spec that almost all service providers rent the line to, that is basically voice spec and they choose to put DSL on top of. Openreach does not guarantee broadband services on lines rented to SIN349 so if any line not suffering a line fault or a an issue putting the line out of spec, requires to be investigated then there is a charge for the SFI services.

The Service Provider knows in advance of raising the SFI task that it will be chargeable. The Openreach engineer is required to carry out a pair quality test on arrival to prove to the service provider that it is not a line fault, if the line fails the PQT then there is no charge for the visit. If it passes the PQT then the engineer continues with the task and all completed modules are chargeable to the service provider. If the line fails the PQT then the engineer treats it as a regular line fault (business as usual) and no charge are raised. It is the service providers choice to pass charges onto their customer nothing to do with Openreach or BT.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-May-12 10:53:21)

Kinda shows that the T&C which operate in this area are not fit for purpose. It is a reasonable expectation for a service to perform within technical parameters for the physical line. My check with the handy dandy checker at farina1.com showed that this was below the level expected - confirmed by the line breaching the FTL given for my line. Whatever the financial aspirations of BT, the lack of any fault cause identified in my premises should have been clearly noted as confirmed and communicated to my ISP. That you seem to be saying that BT have a rental scheme that permits the charging for faults on lines that are under-performing adds to the feeling that OFCOM are again failing to regulate in this market and allowing the provider with SMP to dictate the terms to the severe disadvantage of the end user.

Frankly - I am sick of BT, the line has always suffered random resyncs, right back to my time on Pipex's 512k service - before ADSLMax arrived. Reading how many others seem to get these charges incorrectly levied after a "network fault" I think it is a shame that BT don't put in the same energy to sorting out issues as they do to trying to bill people for work which should not be charged.

Its not a long line - 3 km - the wiring isnt ancient - the overhead is around 12 years old give or take a month and is less than 30 feet - the post being the same age due to BT having removed ducting at that time. The fact that Vivaciti have had to hike the noise margin on my current LLU service to stabilize it tells me that the problem still exists and hasn't gone away despite attention on a couple of occasions where ADSL has been lost and work has been done by engineers that have been told of the random issue, each time I have been told that the work to rectify the major issue should have also settled the random issues - but of course that was a fantasy. I'm glad I left Enta, the service had fallen away since the changes that came with WBC/IPSC, they seem less open and transparent and frankly less customer satisfaction focused than they were when I joined - although a couple of the tech guys there are real stars.

I knew farce was still alive in the UK... but where in the 60s it was about underpants jokes in theater... now it is based in broadband provisions and supply.

I feel for you troubles warweezil, its terrible service here in the dock.

I got a call today from Viva over my low sync, been getting a pretty steady 11-12 for a few weeks everything running nice and smooth then all of a sudden dropped to 7! every time the SNR has been bumped to 9-12dB, and every time I request a provision of 6dB i get it for about a day then its shot back up?

Viva said they are investigating it with network engineers but i dont hold much hope, the problem here is down to BT infrastructure and because we arent London or Manchester we dont matter until well in the future.

Wouldn't it make sense for BT to invest FTTC or even FTTH in rural areas first bringing them/us up to speed and enabling competitiveness (as it is a competition yes?) with major cities, or is that simple logic thus not BT's bag..

i dont expect 24Mb i just want what my line is capable of, but it seems thats not going to happen until at least 2018...

Yeah its time that the tourist class service we get from the "telecoms infrastructure" was reflected in tourist class pricing.

Sucks that the county contributes so much in some areas of the national infrastructure and yet is starved in other areas - it is indeed a one way thing - always taking.

Have had some family issues that have taken priority but will be calling Viva myself soon as with the raise in Noise margin I'm not much better off than I was on ADSLMax.

How much more tourist class do people want broadband pricing to get? Its lower than most other countries I have visited for sure. Deals where you can get broadband for under £5 etc.

When you see coverage from other countries broadband in the UK press, remember invariably the journo is visiting on behalf of a telco, so unlikely to see the rural villages that have no service, or a choice of just one retail provider.

Maybe you'd be more interested in a service that guarantees data rates and service? £50-£100 a week for assured service instead of a voice spec line at £11 a month?

Like I said you rent a voice line with dsl thrown over the top at a smidgen of what assured data services pay for and its that last bit you have an issue with. The line does not have a fault, however the DSL service you are renting is not being delivered by your SP to the service level that you would like or expect, thats the angle you need to work on if you want to get it resolved.

I know it dosn't work for you but it really is a service provider issue as all Openreach's involvement is only to provide a line capable of voice communication, thats what they are paid to deliver nothing more, if you pay for a higher service then you will get a higher service. The T&C's you agreed to with Enta are none of Openreach's concern, why would they be you have no contract with them.

On an SFI job the engineer is paid to act as the SP's agent, if the SP does not authorise the right work guess what? it dosn't get fixed. If the SP only authorises a home visit + external network and does not authrorise an exchange visit and the issue happens to be in the exchange what do you think will happen?

Edited by deleted (Tue 15-May-12 21:15:49)

Well 3 isps have seen issues with stability on this line so I think the rant at Enta is a little misplaced... 2 of the ISPs were selling BT services that BT themselves are keen to wholesale - Go figure!

I didnt write the script on the site I checked but the Farina site and the Kitz checker agree on where my line should be "tecnically", someone somewhere needs to fix the thing. I'm sick of being run around by BT, ISps and the apologists for BT.

Bad enough we pay over the odds for old tech services while WBC is charged at a much lower rate, but they add a lack of competent maintenance to a lack of investment in this area. Im not alone in seeing under-performance on this exchange - suggesting there may be a bigger problem that is being ignored?

I think most people around here would settle for a level playing field rather than paying a premium over the (faster) WBC for a slower service. Surely parity to reflect the lack of investment wouldn't be too much to ask?

How much more tourist class do people want broadband pricing to get?

That's true but BT and ISPs have never asked me that, they set their pricing structure to suit themselves don't they?

Broadband seems to be one of those things where you can pay less but get more ......... providing you live in the right place with an up to date exchange that isn't congested

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

How much more tourist class do people want broadband pricing to get?

That's true but BT and ISPs have never asked me that, they set their pricing structure to suit themselves don't they?

Broadband seems to be one of those things where you can pay less but get more ......... providing you live in the right place with an up to date exchange that isn't congested

Ive never said i want it for a fiver a month, I could actually save maybe 3 or 4 pounds a month by moving to a bundled package, I pay my current price because it is the only way I can get anywhere near a decent service, but what angers myself and many others is the over pricing of an older slower service on kit that is long since paid for against a faster service offered on newer kit. A point which many people seem blind to. I remember right back when WBC came out and pricing was being debated reading that (higher) "leverage pricing" was being applied to IPSC to persuade ISPs to move people to WBC - that is grossly unfair where BT are not investing in the WBC upgrades to enable people to move, you cant fairly impose leverage pricing on people where there is nowhere to go!