In reply to a post by blimsta:

That's one problem and from what I can understand signal problems don't affect latency directly only if interleaving is applied?

Signal problems can affect latency on a packet-by-packet basis.

Minimum latency (ie for every packet) is increased when interleaving is applied.

However, any tiny burst of noise (ie signal problems) can cause packet loss - particularly if FEC is turned off (and FEC+interleaving usually go hand-in-hand in the downstream direction). More noise bursts lead to higher amounts of packet loss.

This packet loss amounts to, for some packets, an infinite latency.

Packet loss has an impact to downloads - when you will see some amount of "pause" while the two sides work out that a packet has been lost, and resend the missing packet. If there are enough pauses, download speeds are impacted.

If you want to monitor your packet loss rate (and have a static IP), take a look at the TBB BQM at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping

Edit: There's some interesting information relating to packet loss at this tutorial. They set acceptable packet loss levels to 2.5%, while a linked paper on VoIP suggests that 1.5% gives a poor result for telephony.

Edited by deleted (Sat 04-Jan-14 11:17:00)

In reply to a post by blimsta:

Just now I have noticed 20-30 seconds of time out just as we get a gust of wind. This has happen before

One gust of wind, followed by 20-30 seconds of timeout? This size of timeout is suspiciously similar to the amount of time it takes to resync. Depending on the timeout values set at the PPP layer, PPP might survive while the modem re-syncs.

Or a longer gust of wind lasting 20-30 seconds, with the timeout lasting the same amount of time? In this case, the symptom suggests noise bursts on the line causing packet loss.

I was on the phone to PN support via VoIP and every time I hear the wind outside the call became distorted.

This aspect very much sounds like noise bursts on the line, causing packet loss.

I recall you mentioning that, for one call at least, the poor VoIP call quality happened in one direction only (downstream, to be heard by you).

That can be explained in FTTC, where it can sometimes be seen that downstream has neither FEC nor interleaving turned on, but upstream has FEC turned on without interleaving. The additional protection for upstream could be enough to give good call quality in that direction, while even a small amount of loss downstream can adversely affect what you hear.

according to PN the Pro add-on would have no affect on my gaming with the fibre unlimited and P2P traffic.

In fact, the one circumstance that PN say that the Pro add-on has an effect on the unlimited fibre package is precisely for gaming - but only in the case for new games where they haven't set up prioritisation rules.

It's hard to follow Blimsta's fault description because he mixes terms and descriptions up.
1 moment he's talking about his game, then the next moment he is talking about something completely different.

What I've read, He isn't having line drops/disconnects. No drop in sync or drop of ppp.
His sync speed is good, and has full download speeds according to speedtests he's posted with good ping (16ms).

The disconnections he is describing, is the connection from his computer to a game server. His P2P traffic to and from the game server is timing out, not his internet connection. His P2P game traffic ping times increase 160+ milli seconds when Plusnet's network becomes busy. P2P game traffic is fine at 4am.

That is Blimsta's primary/main fault with Plusnet as I read through it.

The gaming problem is on going. Plusnet peak time is more like all day, especially over the holidays and most of winter.
http://community.plus.net/blog/2013/12/20/its-christ...

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Around Christmas we had a storm or two that has done a lot of damaged in my area. Met office reported 90mph winds. I've been getting 5-10 and the more recent 10-30 second time out (dc from games). So that is progressively getting worse. I also have been checking the router logs and while this happens, there are no logs for ppp session or wan port down.

Now when I ring Plusnet about this, because I couldn't use my connection over Christmas. They basically told me to do a Wireshark, yes that's right for a time-out error.

So what are they going to do, is what I want to know. A engineer to come round and not even check the line seems like another waste of time.

What sort of engineer visit would be expected from this kind of reply (PN support) because I got the idea it was a line fault call out?

After being ask about engineer visit again.

First I sed this

This is such an inconvenience.

If I sed no, I cant get to the master socket unless its 100% necessary does this mean you are unwilling to help me?

The master socket is the one in use but its not easy to get to and I live in a shared house. I would need to gain access to that part of the house and then get inside a locked cupboard. I watched him fit the simple 2 core cable leaving it twisted as required.

If you do feel like you must check the master socket could you at least give good reason to why with proof. Error logs pointing to that type of error.

Plusnet support reply

Your line is showing up errors as I've shown below:
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins) Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp 2013-12-27T15:03:21.887+00:00 2013-12-27T15:18:21.887+00:00
Ingress Code Violation 0 0
Egress Code Violation 0 0
Errored Seconds 247 74
Severely Errored Seconds 189 41
Unavailable Seconds 0 0


It would be worthwhile to get access to your master socket if possible.

I sed

Ok that seems like good reason.

I'm not sure if you are aware but the line from the cab to the duct next to the pole was changed and the BTOR guy sed it was running with no errors so that leaves the line from the duct up to the pole and in my house unchecked. I hope that is helpful.

Any date should be ok as long as its not the 9th Jan. As soon as possible would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Why can they not just finish the job and check/replace the last part of my line (30min job if that). Luckily my house is closes to the pole and I can even arrange for parking.

This is confusing! In one post it's a waste of time their having an engineer visit then 29 minutes later you post here saying you think they should swap your drop cable out.

You were claiming it was a congestion problem, that you had 'stunning' evidence of it and now you are saying that you need your drop cable replaced. This 'stunning' evidence apparently appeared a few days after you agreed that you had a line fault and agreed to an engineer visit.

You said the fault had been going on for months and are now discussing the effect the recent storms may have had. Is this going to be relevant to a fault you claim is nearly a year old?

If they were asking for a Wireshark it was because you were complaining specifically about the game stalling rather than overall connection problems. They asked for a Wireshark trace because it would have shown which priority queue the game was going into.

This has been incredibly hard to follow and I can see why the troubleshooting has been extremely convoluted. A couple of things in just this copy/paste have confused me thoroughly such as:

I watched him fit the simple 2 core cable leaving it twisted as required.

From your first thread the fault stalled because you stopped responding, this one they ask about an engineer and your response is that it's an inconvenience and to ask for proof, then a couple of days later you're on their forums accusing them of corruption, lying and claiming that you know what the issue is. A couple of days later you're on here venting.

Do you really think this will get things fixed any quicker? If you actually do agree this is a line fault, though your opinion of what the issue is seems to change hourly, moving to another ISP will achieve absolutely nothing and you'll just start all of this over again.

Just stick to the overall issue of everthing stalling, forget your gaming, forget your assumption of peering congestion, forget any preconceptions, respond promptly to your ISP with the information they ask for rather than adding things that are either irrelevant or presumptuous and follow the process. Things usually get fixed quicker that way.

unnecessary rant. Deleted.

Edited by deleted (Sat 04-Jan-14 21:54:40)

You are getting quite obnoxious. People are confused by your varying posts and ideas. People ARE trying to help so help them to help you by answering questions that they ask!

I just don't know what to say, ok?


Can we get the problem fix?


Plusnet are sending a engineer round to fix a line fault that he will not be able to fix because is isn't a line engineer. That's the low down. No confusion, just you two.

Edited by deleted (Sat 04-Jan-14 21:25:53)

Chip on your shoulder about having a disability? Shouldn't stop you from having the patience to answer questions that may help others to help you.