Speeds at peak times

The speeds I'm getting at peak times are awful. These are meant to be on a 30mb line.

Here is a speed test from recently:

Speed Test

and a ping test:

Ping Test

and thinkbroadband quality monitor

My Broadband Ping

I've complained to them many times over the last 6 months and nothing has been done. The estimated fix date just keeps on getting pushed backwards. Is there anything I can do to improve this?

Shocking congestion like that is becoming more and more common with VM. It is almost certainly one or more people very local to you constantly seeding torrents on a high end package. As already suggested - change provider because VM simply don't seem to care. If ADSL isn't viable then at least call retentions (150 on VM phone and take the "thinking of leaving" option) and ask for a rebate. I downgraded from 50 to 10 because ADSL wasn't viable and will be moving to Infinity soon.

I cant see even the comcast style shaping fixing that, is way too excessive congestion.

All that will fix it is hard limits

30 Meg, 100GB per month
60 Meg, 250GB per month
100/120 Meg, 600GB per month

No funny traffic management, just plain limits. That way people can't cheat with VPN's etc.

Alas the war with Sky and BT Retail, means it won't happen, until both of them also blink.

I have a feeling i'll be doing the same too. Infinity 2 reaches my exchange in about 8 weeks..... Sorry Virgin....

The other day I got a VPN account but there seems to no difference between when it's on or off, so whats the point in trying to cheat with a VPN?

But what are you using it for? It won't cure slowdowns caused by congestion only slowdowns caused by traffic shaping. They were also a useful defence against ACS law before they got drummed out of the brownies because they concealed the end user IP in torrent swarms, I imagine most kiddie fiddlers will be using them too for concealment and as a proxy to avoid the IWFfilters all UK ISPs operate.

Shaping (if it is configured correctly and I'm not convinced that VM's is) will selectively slow down P2P traffic and that includes upstream seeding. If the P2P (or news) is tunnelled through a VPN then it will not be detected by the shaping kit and so not slowed down. The result of that is that a 100Mbps VM customer could use 10Mbps of upstream 24x7. The new traffic management reduces that but not nearly enough IMO. The local upstream pipe shared by a couple of hundred users or more has a capacity of 18Mbps so the likely result will be upstream congestion and that will limit the achievable downstream speeds. It will also cause severe jitter and maybe packet loss too as shown in the TBB monitor above.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

All that will fix it is hard limits

30 Meg, 100GB per month
60 Meg, 250GB per month
100/120 Meg, 600GB per month

No funny traffic management, just plain limits. That way people can't cheat with VPN's etc.

Alas the war with Sky and BT Retail, means it won't happen, until both of them also blink.

comcast shaping ignores protocol so VPNs wont bypass it, however I agree with you, the only 2 fixes will be either a hard usage cap or investment in capacity for that UBR port.

Although remembering they narrow pipes my proposed limits would be nearer.

20/30mbit - 50gig
60mbit -110 gig
100/120mbit - 250gig

Edited by Chrysalis (Tue 24-Apr-12 20:15:07)

While those figures are closer to what might work experience with ADSL providers suggests that any limit imposed on a previously unlimited service will send the heaviest users running away even if inside the limits, as many have no clue how much they use, and hate limits with a passion

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

While those figures are closer to what might work experience with ADSL providers suggests that any limit imposed on a previously unlimited service will send the heaviest users running away even if inside the limits, as many have no clue how much they use, and hate limits with a passion

its not about keeping unprofitable heavy users happy.

Its about doing limits that the infrastructure can handle, if marketing are to choose such limits then there is no point in having them.

Well at least thats my view, obviously with VM it is about marketing.

Ultimately tho if the limits are too high connections will noticebly feel slower and in severe cases stop mainstream apps from working.

As shown with the STM even tho the STM only reduced to previous level of speeds, it had a bad negative impact on the heavy users, those guys are not happy with anything but unlimited so they would still complain with 'any' limit.

And so they should move to a provider with suitable infrastructure to supply them with the service they desire.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Although remembering they narrow pipes my proposed limits would be nearer.

20/30mbit - 50gig
60mbit -110 gig
100/120mbit - 250gig

The problem with those limits is that if they were in place there would be absolutely no point it having the high speeds as that would only be a quarter of an hour daily flat out.

VM are between a rock and a hard place - all that cable can offer over FTTC is headline speed but the only reason you need high headline speeds is for heavy duty downloading and as soon as people start doing that the low capacity local pipes can't deliver the goods.

I still firmly believe that widespread FTTC is the kisss of death for cable broadband in the UK. It may survive but only as the poor man's option.

Dunno about that, the upload cap is 12,000Mb which at 10Mb upload speed will allow constant seeding at max rate for only approximately 2 and a half hours.

The caps are certainly very generous but the products are really fast as well which means you hit them quickly, it's not like you have a whole load of people seeding at full speed all day, every day, you just can't do that.

Congestion sucks, I don't have it in my area thank god and hope I never have it but it's the same as anythign else really it's never going to be expanded before the need is there so there's going to be periods of

yep it isnt high in terms of the overall possible usage but what is the typical usage?

I tend to my downloading in bursts so STM and the proposed comcast shaping would punush me disproportionally.

eg. I might download nothing all week except generic usage like some streaming browsing email etc. Then download 10 gig in one day. STM only looks at short term usage. a 50gig limit would be enough for that although only just. But imo the price of 30meg now (the new bottom tier) is still very good for that speed and usage. Burst speed should not be undervalued. People forget its not just high usage that costs money.

Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 25-Apr-12 15:51:14)

In reply to a post by anon123456:

The caps are certainly very generous but the products are really fast as well which means you hit them quickly, it's not like you have a whole load of people seeding at full speed all day, every day, you just can't do that.

You can't at 10Mbps but you can at the STM limited rate until the cows come home and even 2.5Mbps takes a sizeable chunk of the local pipe.

Anyway the number of complaints about congestion strongly suggests that either many do just that or VM are cramming even more modems per node than they should for acceptable performance.

My download habits are similar to yours then. I've no idea what the norm might be but judging by the forum bragging I'm sure we've both seen there are certainly people approaching or even exceeding a terabyte a month. Lord only knows what they do with it all.

I'm still convinced that the major problem is torrent seeding which somehow evades shaping though as that doesn't cause the perpetrator any inconvenience such as constantly buying hard drives or blurays and transferring the data.

Hi, i am also a disgruntled VM customer on the 100Mbit line, what you see on you monitor is MASSES of over usage on you're local exchange contact VM BB services during day time hours to speak to an English rep who can get things done, explain that you have had the issue for some time, also check on the VM customer forums for others with issues in the same area as you, if they fail to do anything after 1 week contact the OFFICE OF THE CEO of virgin media and explain that there is an issue and that it is unacceptable, include links to the BBM pics that you posted so they can see, run pings to bbc.co.uk through CMD and record you're results. They will fix the issue, you have a connection that is way worse than mine has been, They may take a while(ive beeb having issues for a year) and tell them that unless they fix it you will go to another provider as there are always other options, especially with SKY release fiber speeds, and BT to.

John

In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

But what are you using it for?

I was using it just for general browsing (+ youtube, iplayer etc) not downloading or P2P. General browsing is bad enough let alone trying to download anything. I'm not using it now because it didn't help.

A few points:

A lot of people on this thread have mentioned STM, what is this?

Also, how do you contact the CEO?

Its also the same on sky broadband in the evenings, fine all night and throughout the day but once peak time hits (7pm-11pm most nights) speeds nose-dive.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

All that will fix it is hard limits

30 Meg, 100GB per month
60 Meg, 250GB per month
100/120 Meg, 600GB per month

No funny traffic management, just plain limits. That way people can't cheat with VPN's etc.

Alas the war with Sky and BT Retail, means it won't happen, until both of them also blink.

I'm afraid I disagree completely, Mr.S.

Hard monthly limits won't help anyone attempting to watch a YouTube video at the same time that a decent number of other users on the same 'node' are downloading their monthly quota. The primary problem as I understand it is peak-time congestion, not the total monthly volume of data.

(I usually download around 150GB a month on a 20Mb connection but close to 99% of it is done automatically from 1am until 7am.)

You contact the CEO office by emailing the CEO - neil.berkett at virginmedia.co.uk I've used that method to complain about the Superhub. My first email had no response in over a day so I complained about that to the same email address and got a response apologising that my first email had been missed. The sender claimed to really be Mr Berkett. I also got the wretched superhub swapped out for a modem.

A VPN cannot speed up a connection. What it can do is conceal your identity and conceal the traffic type. Concealing traffic type is just what users of torrents want so that their traffic can avoid shaping (selective slowing down of some protocols). Free VPNs are slow and put any login data you may send through them at risk as you've no idea at all who runs them and has access to the logs etc.

STM is Subscriber Traffic Management - hardware controlled speed throttling - if you exceed the traffic limit imposed for your connection over a given period it will be throttled back by a specified amount for a specified time - http://help.virginmedia.com/system/selfservice.contr...

In reply to a post by ceedee:

I'm afraid I disagree completely, Mr.S

In general he's right although the numbers proposed may be wildly wrong. Off peak (say midnight til 8am) could probably be a free for all.

Monthly caps limit the amount of time the connection is in use and simple random variations of when subscribers use their allocations will ensure congestion isn't excessive - so long as the limits are correctly set. Upstream limits would be needed too as anybody constantly seeding even at rates reduced by STM will have an adverse effect on their area.

In reply to a post by ceedee:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

All that will fix it is hard limits

30 Meg, 100GB per month
60 Meg, 250GB per month
100/120 Meg, 600GB per month

No funny traffic management, just plain limits. That way people can't cheat with VPN's etc.

Alas the war with Sky and BT Retail, means it won't happen, until both of them also blink.

I'm afraid I disagree completely, Mr.S.

Hard monthly limits won't help anyone attempting to watch a YouTube video at the same time that a decent number of other users on the same 'node' are downloading their monthly quota. The primary problem as I understand it is peak-time congestion, not the total monthly volume of data.

(I usually download around 150GB a month on a 20Mb connection but close to 99% of it is done automatically from 1am until 7am.)

yep but what you forget is monthly limits will also reduce sales meaning less users on the pipe.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

yep but what you forget is monthly limits will also reduce sales meaning less users on the pipe.

..and what everybody forgets is that if VM revenue falls they'll spend even less (if that's possible) upgrading the oversubscribed areas.

I stick by my original prediction - 10 years from now I doubt that this forum will have a cable section.

Following usual ISP practice those figures are download+upload

If the congestion gets worse, then VM may be faced with increased churn and premium users downgrading, affecting ARPU anyway.

Will be interesting to see how the 80/20 pans out on Sky

It might work but I'll lay odds that it will never be tried... VM is a marketing led company and they won't drop "unlimited" from their advertising lightly.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

.. increased churn..

I suspect that a goodly proportion of the high end users wouldn't recognise congestion unless it was severe. Those that do care about speeds, jitter, packet loss, etc. in all probability are those who took the high speed package in order to actually use it rather than for willy waving and those are precisely the customers VM needs to lose.

stupid dads laptop battery rubbish (it turned off with no warning........)

users do notice the packet loss once gets high, as pages will stall or not load

wish Virgin would install an configurable QOS into there nodes (Fiber to cable device) so it limits the total speed down like BT do as that would stop packet loss or limit it to normal very rare packet loss, i Prefer lower speed over Packet loss

In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

yep but what you forget is monthly limits will also reduce sales meaning less users on the pipe.

..and what everybody forgets is that if VM revenue falls they'll spend even less (if that's possible) upgrading the oversubscribed areas.

I stick by my original prediction - 10 years from now I doubt that this forum will have a cable section.

not sure if can get much less

as it is now the amounts announced are a tiny fraction of their revenue, and its not even concentrated on the bad areas.

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 26-Apr-12 17:07:08)

Most of their money probably goes in servicing the debt. I imagine if anybody is interested the figures can't be that hard to find. I'm really not sufficiently interested - so long as they last the next few months that will be fine by me and after that I really couldn't care less.

In reply to a post by leexgx:

wish Virgin would install an configurable QOS into there nodes (Fiber to cable device) so it limits the total speed down like BT do as that would stop packet loss or limit it to normal very rare packet loss, i Prefer lower speed over Packet loss

How do you propose they install configurable QoS into a layer 1 media converter?

Edited by deleted (Thu 26-Apr-12 23:09:09)

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

I've just woke up..

turned the PC on.

Superhub reports 382kb used since 6am..

right so I should be able to get some speed to download my next lot of work..right?

WRONG!

On every protocol I use and whether it's via a VPN or not I am getting 18mbps.

18!

I am trying my damnedest to get hit by the STM because at least then it always goes to 50mbps and stays there.

So did VM expect that? a customer TRYING to hit the STM to get a better service.

Pah! can't wait to get rid of this shared [censored] and have a line ALL to myself!

I wouldn't complain too much if I was breaking the terms of a residential connection.

Cheers

Grim

Edited by deleted (Sat 05-May-12 16:00:29)

Time must do funny things down the road in Sheffield. Yesterday (Friday 4th May 2012) you said you were getting your SDSL line on Monday. Now correct me if I'm wrong but as yesterday was Friday and today is Saturday how can Monday have come and gone without me noticing? Think it's a case of you being all talk and full of you know what as normal. BUT if you have moved on to pastures new then goodbye as no network needs people who download such large amounts of data without any consideration for the impact they have on other customers.

Cheers

Grim

Edited by deleted (Sat 05-May-12 20:37:51)

In reply to a post by JonasTone:

Hi, i am also a disgruntled VM customer on the 100Mbit line, what you see on you monitor is MASSES of over usage on you're local exchange contact VM BB services during day time hours to speak to an English rep who can get things done, explain that you have had the issue for some time, also check on the VM customer forums for others with issues in the same area as you, if they fail to do anything after 1 week contact the OFFICE OF THE CEO of virgin media and explain that there is an issue and that it is unacceptable, include links to the BBM pics that you posted so they can see, run pings to bbc.co.uk through CMD and record you're results. They will fix the issue, you have a connection that is way worse than mine has been, They may take a while(ive beeb having issues for a year) and tell them that unless they fix it you will go to another provider as there are always other options, especially with SKY release fiber speeds, and BT to.

John

What number do you use to contact VM broadband customer service?

I've been using 0333 000 3101 but the other day I couldn't get through to an english rep in the daytime.