Virgin media upload

I'm on the 30meg package at the mo... still 2mbit/sec upload. Is there any plan to upgrade this to 3mbit? I will be moving back to FTTC as soon as this contract is up.

I forget the labels they use but old users on the oldest packages need to elect to upgrade to the current 30 Mbps product to get the 3 Mbps upload speed. Or at least that was the impression derived from what others have said over time.

Probably would mean a new minimum contract.

upload is the only thing on virgin that lets it down.

I do have a superhub. I thought that when upstream bonding was in place they'd do this but evidently not...

Ah, I see. Well I'm not going to bother with a new contract here and I'm moving back to FTTC as soon as I can (this flat had it active and I took over the account - openreach were quoting 5 weeks for an install w/ new phoneline!).

In reply to a post by JimKirk363:

upload is the only thing on virgin that lets it down.

Not only but also business customers pay a hell of a lot more for a much slower overall service and can't get a fixed IP beyond the 10/0.7 package. A couple of years back we opted for VM because then FTTC was only a twinkle in someone's eye. We were obliged to have a three year contract with VM but with 8 months to run on that contract FTTC is now available at 68/15; trying to see how deep our pocket is to have both services for 6 months since any order for FTTC is at least a five week wait for an engineer to call.

The business option does not give 50/5 Mbps but 50/~3.5 Mbps. We get about 48/3.4 Mbps at present.
And, yes, it's cheaper than the 10/0.75 Mbps option we used to have.

And we need the 6 fixed IP addresses option to get the Superhub 1 (no, the Superhub 2 is not available to business) to be able to use our own router (no, business Superhub firmware does not give the Modem Mode so beloved of us consumers).

Edited by John_Gray (Sun 15-Sep-13 10:46:28)

Out of interest, does the 60meg package only have a 3 meg upload too?

yup - at least mine does

I don't see anywhere on the VM website where 6Mb upload is referenced on the 60Mb product. The traffic management only shows it as being 3Mb and the customer service guys can't create a new tier to quiet complaints.

Any references for cases where this has been done?

Our speedtest also shows a good number with 6 up

got any links?

this is news to me.

Edited by deleted (Sun 22-Sep-13 20:54:13)

The standard upload on 60Mbps is 3 Mbps. It will eventually be 6Mbps once the upgrades are fully complete. The traffic management pages don't even mention 6Mbps yet so I'm guessing it isn't all that common.

Downstream doubling in my area is complete but I'm still on 3Mbps up.

Edited by kwikbreaks (Sun 22-Sep-13 21:19:28)

Good to see customer service staff can undermine the capacity planning team.

New customers (and me) were on doubled downstreams in my area best part of a year before those who didn't complain were. There was some justification in my case as new customers were going directly to 60 down but less with upstreams as the XL60 product is provided to new customers in areas that aren't ready for doubled upstream as 60/3.

Traffic management pages suggest there are two versions of 30 - L30 at 30/2 and XL30 at 30/3 I'm guessing that new customers get 3 and the rest are on 2 until upgraded unless L30 is upgraded 10s who will only get 3 upif they complain.

I'm on a retentions deal already with a 12 month minimum term so doubt they'd double me and as I don't use cloud backups, run torrents, or do any massive uploads I'm not fussed.

None of these issues would exist if VM didn't announce stuff over a year before it happens and then run their businees like a car boot stall where new customers and those shouting and pushing their way to the front get the best deals.

Edited by kwikbreaks (Mon 23-Sep-13 09:47:53)

Virgin Media will never matched BT FTTC upload not a chance unless Virgin Media bring out 200/20. But, they won't do 200/20 until 2015 for now. BT FTTC can get 160/20 soon say BT.

Edited by adslmax (Mon 23-Sep-13 11:13:22)

And who says 160/20 in BT?

Vectoring might push 1 to 2% of people to that speed level, but would need profile 30 on VDSL2 to stand a chance to get that as an advertised figure, and no trials of profile 30 have been announced and the vectoring is not exactly rushing out of the door either.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

And who says 160/20 in BT?

The people in Max's head.

The only stuff on this I've heard is a 120Mb product has been mooted and internally tested. This was basically just letting the modem sync as high as it can with no rate limit at all - VDSL Max if you like.

This is doable with 17a and no vectoring but obviously vectoring will hugely increase the number of people able to receive something close to 120Mb.

Longer term vectoring, pair bonding and phantom pairs will allow 160Mb to be deployed to some people but for now... Ya.

You can do 200/20 just fine on DOCSIS 3. Doesn't mean Virgin Media are going to make the necessary investment to make it happen this year or next. That the Superhub 2 is 'only' 8 downstreams suggests it's not that high up on the list though 200Mb is doable on 8 downstreams.

More to the point there is no point in jumping to the next speed level if the competition aren't really making great progress towards existing speeds.

Virgin Media are also struggling with capacity demands on their existing 8 downstream, 2 upstream plant.

Here's 500/50 running on DOCSIS 3:

https://www.comhem.se/bredband/bredbandspaket

Using 16 downstream modems, running 16 x 256QAM downstreams, 4 x 64QAM upstreams.

No such thing as DOCSIS 3.1 yet. Some testing of prototype kit that uses some parts of what will be the standard but there's no pre-certification equipment yet as the standard isn't there yet and nor are the descriptions of the final technologies to be used.

We had pre-AC wifi kit and pre-DOCSIS 3.0 hardware, 3.1 isn't there yet, still a little way away from pre-standard hardware being ready.

The technology being used is promising though.

EDIT: The 4.5Gb you saw wasn't DOCSIS 3.1. It was loads of DOCSIS 3 modems in turn bonded together in a similar manner to how you'd use a dual-WAN router at home just on a bigger scale. DOCSIS 3.1 won't be in operator trials until 2014.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Sep-13 00:29:42)

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

The technology being used is promising though.

Show this to Virgin Media management

http://www.multichannel.com/technology/cable-show-20...

I would suspect Liberty Global have some inkling.

Of course they won't, they buy all their network hardware from PC World and rely on their users to point out trials in other countries and of course they will have forgotten all about the 1.5 Gbps trial they ran at a glitzy event in Shoreditch

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

...they will have forgotten all about the 1.5 Gbps trial they ran at a glitzy event in Shoreditch

That trial was odd. It wasn't actually testing anything new. The 1.5Gbps was achieved again using mutiple modems bonded together, a completely impractical solution. It was using 2 x 16 channel downstream, 4 channel upstream modems.

Given Virgin are only bonding 2 upstreams so far on their production network and their latest and greatest CPE bonds 8 downstreams the idea of bonding at least 2 lots of 3 upstream and 2 x 16 down as this trial was are farfetched, however as it used some of the VM network, albeit a ridiculously upgraded and resegmented section, it passed as a trial on production network.

This has also of course also been superceded by some headcases using 5 x 24 downstream modems to bond 128 DOCSIS 3 channels since. Nice PR but means absolutely nothing for real products. 10GPON is a product, using however many modems bonded together by expensive hardware / software and removing all TV from a specially upgraded cable network to deliver data is not.

Edited by deleted (Tue 24-Sep-13 11:04:37)

Have the same package and I have the same problem. Complete nightmare. Support is unresponsive and incompetent. I am looking for a new provider as VM i really not up to the job.

Probably from that, apart from a flashy event in Shoreditch, in VM world DOCSIS 3 maxes out at 400Mb down and 38Mb up for right now.

I read that many areas have three upstream frequencies - do you know why are VM only bonding 2 of them - I assume the Superhub could cope with more than 2.

In your case I'm surprised it wasn't 16 as you obviously live in a universe far far removed from the norm.

There are 4 slots showing in mine but I've never seen more than two populated which stacks up with ignitionets statement that current VM Max is 400 (8 chan) down and 38 (2 chan) up. I wondered why they don't bond 3 if an area has 3 frequencies which I have seen mentioned. I've only ever seen 2 different frequencies in my own area 35.8 and 45.8 Mhz

In reply to a post by pcoventry76:

Is that the best you can do?

How droll.

It was 4 - just 4.

what frequencies? if you on the standard ones I believe that isnt possible, a discussion on CF suggested VM need to shift the frequencies to get a 4tth channel in.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

a discussion on CF suggested VM need to shift the frequencies to get a 4tth channel in.

That sounds very possible to me. They seen to be using 10MHz channel spacings so the high channel on the current scheme would be 55.8MHz which looks to be too close to the 60MHz I've seen mentioned as the highest frequency in the spec if the modulation uses the USB.

In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

They seen to be using 10MHz channel spacings so the high channel on the current scheme would be 55.8MHz which looks to be too close to the 60MHz I've seen mentioned as the highest frequency in the spec if the modulation uses the USB.

USB?

The spec goes up to 85MHz subsplit and modulation isn't an issue.

The constraint is the physical plant. VM have areas with a few different subsplits Some top out at 50MHz, some at 65MHz, some at 85MHz. Some areas used to top out at 40 or even 30MHz but these were upgraded for the 10:1 ratio programme.

In between the DOCSIS 2 upstreams VM have DOCSIS 1.1 for STBs and legacy kit that barfs on 6.4MHz upstreams so how much room is left I'm not sure.

When you go from 2 to 3 or 4 upstream channels bonded it reduces the maximum transmit power the modem is allowed per channel by 3dB from 55.21dBmV to 52.21dBmV.

Sadly not as simple as just flicking a switch: plant has to be lined up to ensure as few modems as possible are in this range, then the outlying modems fixed.

EDIT: Here you go - hat tip to Cable Labs.

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Sep-13 17:44:34)

Not relevant now after your answer to my question but by USB I meant upper sideband. Amplitude modulation of an RF signal results in two sidebands either side of the nominal channel frequency. Only one of the sidebands is needed to demodulate the signal and the old analogue TV used what is called vestigal sideband with the upper sideband used and the lower sideband mostly removed.

Not sure where I got 60MHz from but obviously it was wrong anyhow.

In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

Not relevant now after your answer to my question but by USB I meant upper sideband. Amplitude modulation of an RF signal results in two sidebands either side of the nominal channel frequency. Only one of the sidebands is needed to demodulate the signal and the old analogue TV used what is called vestigal sideband with the upper sideband used and the lower sideband mostly removed.

Not sure where I got 60MHz from but obviously it was wrong anyhow.

Ahh ok. The 6.4MHz width of the carrier includes side bands. They can be placed exactly 6.4MHz apart without issue if an operator so desires.

EDIT: Sorry I should be more accurate. A root raised cosine filter is used to eliminate the side bands. This leaves a symbol rate of 5.12MSym/s despite the bandwidth being 6.4MHz.

So the 6.4MHz doesn't actually include side bands, it includes overhead from removing them via matched filtering.

Edited by deleted (Wed 25-Sep-13 18:48:26)

DSP chips have completely changed the way all these things are done and I make no pretence of understanding them. The amount of data that can be crammed into limited bandwidth these days is quite staggering.

I agree. Some incredibly clever people working on this stuff. It's way beyond me.

In reply to a post by KRS:

Have the same package and I have the same problem. Complete nightmare. Support is unresponsive and incompetent. I am looking for a new provider as VM i really not up to the job.

Yes exactly my sentiments. They USED to be good and much better than BT, but in past 4 months there connections have become totally unreliable with drops every hour at least .Engineers say it is happening to hundreds they know of if not more.All because the Management wont listen to the engineers and fix the servers.

In reply to a post by ilikesurfing:

Yes exactly my sentiments. They USED to be good and much better than BT, but in past 4 months there connections have become totally unreliable with drops every hour at least .Engineers say it is happening to hundreds they know of if not more.All because the Management wont listen to the engineers and fix the servers.

If the management wont listen to the engineers and the customers end, then surely the customers had every rights to cancel the service!