Should we switch to VM?

Hi all,

See a couple of similar threads on this but have some specific queries and don't want to hijack other peoples threads.

We are currently with Plusnet and get 74mbps connection down, 14up. There are NO other providers available to us other than Openreach at present.

Just had a knock on the door from VM who have been doing some works in the area and apparently we can now get full fibre from them.

We have a £90 early termination fee from Plusnet and we'd end up paying an extra tenner a month for the VM service. Overall, cost is not an issue with this decision.

I guess my query really lies with what i can do on the VM network.

My static IP will have to go, which is a shame but not the end of the world.

Services:

Web server for my domain + blog.
Reverse proxy
ntfy (exposed to web)
Ollama with openwebui (exposed to web)
IRC server

So i guess question 1 -

Would i be permitted to run these locally under the VM T&C's? Appreciate i'd have to account for the dynamic IP which isn't a major issue and that most of these IP's are sticky anyway.

Q2 - Does VM use CGNAT and is that likely to be an issue for routing incoming web traffic?

I host a mailserver for my domain on the proxmox host. I reckon i'd have issues doing so without a static ip and configured rDNS - but am i right and is this permitted in the T&Cs?

None of these are an issue with plus but taking our connection from less than 100mbps to gigabit for a tenner a month feels compelling.

Am happy to relocate the mailserver to the cloud if its a deal-breaker.

Finally, the current router is in an awkward location and I would prefer it was installed elsewhere (upstairs rather than downstairs). Would VM run some cabling to locate this where i'd want it or would they bring it in via the same route as the openreach cabling?

Wonder if anyone has any thoughts?

Many thanks!

Edited by 2E0VEB (Thu 20-Mar-25 15:43:50)

I dont know about t&c's but running a irc server from home seems odd.

On technical questions.

No CGNAT, IP isnt static, on their docsis service it is really sticky, dont know how sticky it is on the FTTP service.

It seems you not keen on paying for proper hosting in a datacentre, but perhaps a cheap VPS might be a middle ground. Ionos have a really cheap offer going, the ipv4 will be static. Otherwise you could pay for a service to run on top of your broadband something like AAISP L2TP tunnel or cloudflare tunnel.

You'd have to check T's & C's yourself, but I think you'll have issues with any broadband connection and email given the rest of the world knows the IP ranges of home broadband and assumes it is spam. As Chryslis suggested, better off with a cheap VPS from ionos or OVH to host email and perhaps IRC.

Neither virgin's coax cable or FTTP areas will use the existing openreach wiring that Plusnet is using, so you should check where they will put the router. In a nexfibre area the router will have fibre from the wall to the router so you will want this somewhere it can't get knocked.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

I dont know about t&c's but running a irc server from home seems odd.

On technical questions.

No CGNAT, IP isnt static, on their docsis service it is really sticky, dont know how sticky it is on the FTTP service.

It seems you not keen on paying for proper hosting in a datacentre, but perhaps a cheap VPS might be a middle ground. Ionos have a really cheap offer going, the ipv4 will be static. Otherwise you could pay for a service to run on top of your broadband something like AAISP L2TP tunnel or cloudflare tunnel.

Thanks guys -

The IRC server is hobby related (amateur radio) and the whole principle of radio is to do your own thing with your own hardware so hosting elsewhere kinda defeats the object.

Self hosting/home-labbing is good to ensure you have full control over your systems and data but a VPS for some services isn't off the table, so that's a good call.

We've gone ahead with the order so we'll see how things pan out!

Thanks

In reply to a post by jchamier:

You'd have to check T's & C's yourself, but I think you'll have issues with any broadband connection and email given the rest of the world knows the IP ranges of home broadband and assumes it is spam. As Chryslis suggested, better off with a cheap VPS from ionos or OVH to host email and perhaps IRC.

Neither virgin's coax cable or FTTP areas will use the existing openreach wiring that Plusnet is using, so you should check where they will put the router. In a nexfibre area the router will have fibre from the wall to the router so you will want this somewhere it can't get knocked.

Thank you! Yes the T&Cs felt a bit vague but plusnet were quite happy with it - they even set rDNS for your static IP on request which has been helpful whilst we've been with them.

All noted on the install options, have done a bit more digging and its a two-stage process - the outdoor work will be carried out ahead of time and we're told they have "arrangements" to use Openreach ducts to the properties - one of my neighbours had them out the other day and they pulled the drop in through the ducts no problem - all done in 20 mins.

We'll be getting them to route the install upstairs where our switch is located and from what i've researched since posting, they are quite content with that so all is good.

Routing it downstairs means we'd have to start running some network cabling indoors which is messy so we'll refuse install if they insist but i think that seems unlikely.

Cheers!

In reply to a post by 2E0VEB:

Thank you! Yes the T&Cs felt a bit vague but plusnet were quite happy with it - they even set rDNS for your static IP on request which has been helpful whilst we've been with them.

I was with Plusnet before and they did static IP and rDNS (but maybe not now for new customers?). Virgin Media aren't interested in anything like this on a home/domestic service.

told they have "arrangements" to use Openreach ducts to the properties

Good if you have OR ducts that can be used, the network operator (probably nexfibre I guess in your area) will pay OR under the Ofcom required Physical Infrastructure Access (PIA) scheme where OR is forced to sell access to its ducts and poles to third parties. Around my town most homes OR cabling is not in ducts, so it doesn't help here.

We'll be getting them to route the install upstairs where our switch is located and from what i've researched since posting, they are quite content with that so all is good.

Good news.

The other thing you could do, at least with the email, is relay outgoing through a VPS, so run the server locally and just have the VPS front the outgoing email (and perhaps backup MX for incoming if the IP is not sticky enough!) That's what I do (I do have static, but with my previous ISP, I couldn't do rDNS (I can now but haven't yet switched it back (partially because its still a static in a "home ISP" address space.

Having said that, before fiber arrived, I was with VM (business and on their cable network). The (coax based) service was mostly OK (but pretty high latency compared to xDSL/FTTP) and no problem getting static IP and running mail/web/sftp services etc. (but bear in mind it was the business package, although at a residential address with no actual business... Not sure if Nexfibre offer business services (and if so at what cost?). The customer service was pretty dire (although better than the residential service as far as I have heard) and generally service was unreliable (mostly their supplied router (Hiltron?) in would lock up far too frequently for my liking, requiring physical power cycle - which was tricky from the other side of the world!). 4/5G backup and USB relays inline with the power supply fixed that, typical fixing the stable door after the horse has bolted!. Granted I only jumped because I had a altnet (cityfibre) option so symmetrical 1G for less money.

In reply to a post by philg:

The other thing you could do, at least with the email, is relay outgoing through a VPS, so run the server locally and just have the VPS front the outgoing email (and perhaps backup MX for incoming if the IP is not sticky enough!) That's what I do (I do have static, but with my previous ISP, I couldn't do rDNS (I can now but haven't yet switched it back (partially because its still a static in a "home ISP" address space.

Having said that, before fiber arrived, I was with VM (business and on their cable network). The (coax based) service was mostly OK (but pretty high latency compared to xDSL/FTTP) and no problem getting static IP and running mail/web/sftp services etc. (but bear in mind it was the business package, although at a residential address with no actual business... Not sure if Nexfibre offer business services (and if so at what cost?). The customer service was pretty dire (although better than the residential service as far as I have heard) and generally service was unreliable (mostly their supplied router (Hiltron?) in would lock up far too frequently for my liking, requiring physical power cycle - which was tricky from the other side of the world!). 4/5G backup and USB relays inline with the power supply fixed that, typical fixing the stable door after the horse has bolted!. Granted I only jumped because I had a altnet (cityfibre) option so symmetrical 1G for less money.

This is a good shout and some interesting background.

Would have been happy to take on a business service for the extra capabilities but was categorically told they weren't offering that on these lines.

Was with VM many moons ago on cable (different address). Actually, i recall being on the original Blueyonder at one point, iirc it was a 512k connection which felt lightning-fast compared to dialup prior to that!

Their CS was absolutely spot on as Telewest, it helped that i had friends who worked there. As VM their CS is just about the worst i've ever experienced from any company.

That said, unless their service is down i would have no need to talk with them so i figure its a bit of a gamble but for a significant speed uplift, worth the risk.

Will look at the VPS setup you mention, seems a good plan and a way of making my setup work as i want it to.

One thing that does bug me is trying to find out what config options exist on the hub5 - i can find a "Quickstart" guide online but that's just your basic "setting up wifi" stuff.

Sure it would come as no surprise to you that we run our own DNS and run a more complex LAN than your average customer.

I may go down the route of setting up our own router and using the hub5 in modem mode - but from the posts i've read, that doesn't actually work - some suggest it does, but is unreliable and inconsistent.

The things we have to wade through just to get a bit more bandwidth!

Cheers Phil!

In reply to a post by 2E0VEB:

using the hub5 in modem mode

Don't forget there are two separate units:

* Hub 5 = coax cable areas (DOCSIS) - modem mode

* Hub 5x = nexfibre areas (FTTP) - no official modem mode

The FTTP version supports the 2 Gbps speeds, but does not officially support modem mode and is provided with all speeds. The Hub 5 is for coax cable areas is only supplied on the higher speed if you buy the 300 or 500 services you may still be given the Hub 3.

Edited by jchamier (Mon 24-Mar-25 10:01:28)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by 2E0VEB:

Thank you! Yes the T&Cs felt a bit vague but plusnet were quite happy with it - they even set rDNS for your static IP on request which has been helpful whilst we've been with them.

I was with Plusnet before and they did static IP and rDNS (but maybe not now for new customers?). Virgin Media aren't interested in anything like this on a home/domestic service.

told they have "arrangements" to use Openreach ducts to the properties

Good if you have OR ducts that can be used, the network operator (probably nexfibre I guess in your area) will pay OR under the Ofcom required Physical Infrastructure Access (PIA) scheme where OR is forced to sell access to its ducts and poles to third parties. Around my town most homes OR cabling is not in ducts, so it doesn't help here.

We'll be getting them to route the install upstairs where our switch is located and from what i've researched since posting, they are quite content with that so all is good.

Good news.

Yup i think Plusnet stopped offering statics to new customers from December. It was a major factor in our decision to go to them after we left Sky.

Can't fault PN at all tbh, would have stuck with them if they'd been able to offer a faster connection but they're entirely reliant on openreach and their incredibly slow rollout of FTTP in this area. "Due by the end of 2026" is the latest info.

Guy at PN i spoke to about leaving said he would too under the circumstances.

Ducting is interesting as it saves so much hassle pulling in a drop - and in years gone by, in another existence, i've done quite a few of those myself!

That said, they'll no doubt be installing their external box near where the BT connection emerges, which is an inconvenient location for where we want the internal run to arrive.

So we'll need to ensure they can route some cable around our garage and to the side of the house - pretty much as a far away from the ducting as its possible to get, in order to allow routing to where we want it interally. Will all be a bit of a pain but very much worth it when i can get a gig into my switch.

Right now we have a 100mbit connection via powerline ethernet - which is fine in one sense as that's greater than our current broadband speed but wholly inadequate for a gig connection.

The route an internal run would have to take from there is crazy - over the living room door, around the back of the living room, up the stairs, over the landing and then into the office. I can't see any easy way of doing this without it being a complete mess hence needing the cable run outside and straight up the wall.

That said, looking forward to some decent throughput on here so will be worth the hassle.