Vodafone Network (Net Backend Routing) AS5378 statistics

Here are the peers I have just found that Voda UK uses for my product and more:

AS3356 Level 3 Parent, LLC
AS8220 COLT Technology Services Group Limited
AS33891 Core-Backbone GmbH
[AS1273 Vodafone Group PLC]

My product is the 12 pound a month Social Tariff FTTC VDSL 40down 10up one.

For more information please see https://bgp.he.net/AS5378

If you understand that page well you are doing really well at networking and I'm still fuzzy on some details myself but have some background here from a couple previous workplaces.

You may note that COLT is not peered currently on IPv6 connections / routes according to that site's AS5378 summary, and the last update to that ASN was 4 months ago on Feb 24, 2023

https://ipinfo.io/AS5378

I have also come to find the 2012 or so tool WinMTR which is great and exports HTML and Text. I even sent Voda an email!

Peering with Core Network Germany, Level3 and COLT is really good news for me. Here's an online MTR type example routing back from Core Backbone Nuremberg Germany to my router here in London West:
I had to enable ICMP ping replies on my 300v2 Voda Router. x.x.206.12*

Start: 2023-07-07T10:33:47+0200
HOST: nbg.lg.core-backbone.com Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1.|-- ae0-404.nbg20.core-backbone.com 0.0% 10 0.5 0.5 0.4 0.7 0.1
2.|-- ae3-2072.lon10.core-backbone.com 0.0% 10 13.7 13.7 13.6 13.9 0.1
3.|-- core-backbone.vodafone.uk 0.0% 10 14.3 14.2 14.0 14.4 0.1
4.|-- ??? 100.0 10 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
5.|-- 81.78.206.12n 0.0% 10 19.7 19.6 19.2 20.0 0.3

https://www.core-backbone.com/looking-glass/

//////////////

to NSA.GOV, my ICMP ping result from home is 6ms, but the DE peer measures at close to 250ms or 1/4 second!

Start: 2023-07-07T10:41:09+0200
HOST: nbg.lg.core-backbone.com Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1.|-- ae0-404.nbg20.core-backbone.com 0.0% 10 0.5 0.6 0.3 0.7 0.1
2.|-- ae2-2025.fra30.core-backbone.com 0.0% 10 3.7 3.7 3.6 3.8 0.1
3.|-- ae23-3204.cr2-fra6.ip4.gtt.net 0.0% 10 4.1 5.6 3.7 19.1 4.7
4.|-- ae2.cr3-lax2.ip4.gtt.net 0.0% 10 139.2 142.2 139.2 159.3 6.4
5.|-- ip4.gtt.net 0.0% 10 139.2 139.2 139.2 139.2 0.0
6.|-- 203.181.106.181 0.0% 10 139.3 139.3 139.2 139.5 0.1
7.|-- 106.187.12.41 0.0% 10 247.9 247.1 246.1 248.0 0.7
8.|-- 27.86.121.141 0.0% 10 250.2 249.5 248.7 250.3 0.6
9.|-- oteJIN302.int-gw.kddi.ne.jp 0.0% 10 254.3 252.8 250.1 269.3 6.0
10.|-- 111.237.68.26 0.0% 10 250.9 259.0 249.5 285.9 11.8
11.|-- ??? 100.0 10 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
12.|-- ??? 100.0 10 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
13.|-- a184-26-214-224.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com 0.0% 10 247.6 247.6 247.6 247.6 0.0

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| vodafone.broadband - 28 | 59 | 43 | 0 | 0 | 15 | 0 |
| 90.247.64.1 - 24 | 63 | 48 | 5 | 5 | 15 | 5 |
| 63.130.172.43 - 28 | 59 | 43 | 5 | 6 | 17 | 5 |
| 90.255.251.73 - 24 | 63 | 48 | 14 | 140 | 577 | 134 |
| No response from host - 100 | 24 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 24 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| No response from host - 100 | 24 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
|a184-85-54-68.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com - 21 | 67 | 53 | 5 | 6 | 15 | 6 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider

Edited by Naveen (Fri 07-Jul-23 09:49:48)

I must say even at 12 pounds 40down per month the service level is currently disappointing. I have had to resort to metered 4G on a friday / saturday morning 2am and later on a thursday. It is very contended.

IT IS VERY CONTENDED AT 12 a pop a month, PLEASE BUYER BEWARE IT'S CHEAP BUT CONTENDED VERY SPECIFICALLY you may be without adequate service for 6+ hours.

Identifiably, the test result here is:
Slower than 55.4% of tests on your ISP using VDSL2/FTTC

Edited by Naveen (Sat 29-Jul-23 13:04:05)

Have you considered it might just be local area which is contented. I had issues when I first switched to Vodafone, but since then they upgraded what they call the "cable link" and the service has been spot on.

If you are a new customer, just cancel and move to another supplier.

In reply to a post by mbames:

Have you considered it might just be local area which is contented. I had issues when I first switched to Vodafone, but since then they upgraded what they call the "cable link" and the service has been spot on.

If you are a new customer, just cancel and move to another supplier.

But are their leased lines okay, the Boss just ordered a 1 gig on a 1 gig barer, I guess we will find out in a couple of months once its in.

I'm really struggling to understand what problem you're trying to describe here and what the data you've presented us supposed to evidence. What real world issue are you having with your connection?

I suspect you will be fine with a high cost leased line style fibre cable there, we all know that VDSL only goes to around 80MB/s down or a little more. After that you need cable to the property. Honestly it might be double that but I'm not one to buy the down rate hype and I'm more interested like your boss in the up and down speeds at the same time maximised.

I just suspect that Voda is in a bit of a mess with this with the Sales team selling vocariously 12UKP BB for people on benefits that might really be biting into the bandwidth of other users say consumer not business. It's quite hard to set up router or fire-wall contention and I suspecting (say) that they have consumers, perhaps all of them on 80MB/Down and below, on a product that was unusable for 5-6 hours on a Friday last.

Let's hope it is fixed or at least the problem users are kicked off. The Internet is NOT free as in free money.

Why did you post this useless reply to my previous post after my next one Describing An Actual Problem?

I hope you are having fun next moment that is all.

I appreciate this reply thank you. I am in London W6 Hammersmith so if that's contended there are organisational level issues with the Voda BB Network I wouldn't want to start spending on to fix...

What do you expect for just £12 a month? What is your minimum guaranteed speed?

Edited by Ripshod (Sun 30-Jul-23 21:27:52)

In reply to a post by Naveen:

I suspect you will be fine with a high cost leased line style fibre cable there, we all know that VDSL only goes to around 80MB/s down or a little more. After that you need cable to the property. Honestly it might be double that but I'm not one to buy the down rate hype and I'm more interested like your boss in the up and down speeds at the same time maximised.

If you mean will we max it for endured periods, the answer is no, not right now, however I know we regularly upload 100GB + VHD's etc to cloud services on a 500Mbps leased line and we have moments or days where things are maxed out, and then things calm down (to around 100Mbps constant).

Its hard to predict and had to say what the usage is as the patterns are so mixed, some days or weeks are a lot lighter, others multiple of us are downloading customer data to then re-upload into designated services e.g. when there's a leaver this could be from 5GB to in excess of 500GB depending on the user. The programmers love maxing out quota allocations, others not so much.

It's like over the weekend I started two 1TB cloud backups and and its still running as others left other uploads in progress to avoid slow downs in the week. Last thing you want is to sound like a robot over a VOIP phone.

To be completely honest we do a lot more uploading than downloading however strange that might sound, the reason is simple, customer devices come to us when they fail, we recover data and upload to the cloud service of choice, in turn generating lots of network usage. I know the team prefer WiFi but I am one of the few with dual 1gigabit link aggregation to a switch on my desk as my usage is so high with not only data going to NASs but cloud. (It also means I get faster speeds while the others are all fighting over Wi-Fi speeds). I know they banned me from the Wi-Fi because they said I cause their devices to be unusable on certain remote desktop systems.

The download usage is mainly for updates and data downloads.

I do see your point about symmetric up and down speeds, I myself hate the upload speeds providers offer, that's why I am looking at YouFibre as its near the end of my Virgin Media contract, YouFibre offer 1 GIG up and down which to be honest I don't need but the upload is more my interest, there's periods where I max out my 50 meg upload.
Luckily because I have various throttling systems in place I can keep the latency down before it gets noticeable.


ISP load Graph
30 Day graph
24Hour usage

Thanks so much for the detailed reply RR_The_IT_

I am interested and very curious, if you should have the time to break it down, how did you set up home throttling to presumably prefer say a HTTPS GMAIL connection to an ongoing SFTP Upload? Do you have a fancy firewall there hardware on a Linux box configured for such on a Gigabit Lan?

Because at 8pm on Saturday evening you hadn't - and still haven't as far as I can see - posted anything resembling a description of a problem you're having.

If you're just here to vent some vague frustration then fine, but please don't dress it up as something that people might expend effort trying to help resolve.

.. and I realise my reply is not helpful in its own right.

If you're suffering suspected performance issues, may I suggest you:
1) set up a BQM at https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/... and share a graph after a day or so
2) perform some speed tests using a modern, device without any other active devices on your network, using a wired connection to the router. Speed tests from Thinkbroadband or speedtest.net are generally the most useful in my opinion
3) Give an outline of the actual problem you're seeing, and whether it's permanent or intermittent

Traceroutes to/from different sources to different IP addresses don't really help diagnose anything in this situation,

FWIW, Vodafone broadband isn't known for being the best performance, but if cost is your primary driver - as it would appear if you are on a social tariff - then it's not reasonable to expect gold class service. Saying that, the connection should still be functional and you shouldn't regularly need to revert to mobile data as a fallback.

Thanks Ionic but I'll have to read this later. I have linked this thread elsewhere online.

In reply to a post by Naveen:

I must say even at 12 pounds 40down per month the service level is currently disappointing. I have had to resort to metered 4G on a friday / saturday morning 2am and later on a thursday. It is very contended.

IT IS VERY CONTENDED AT 12 a pop a month, PLEASE BUYER BEWARE IT'S CHEAP BUT CONTENDED VERY SPECIFICALLY you may be without adequate service for 6+ hours.

You don't have congestion at 2 in the morning. The heaviest usage period is earlier in the week and is between very roughly 6 and 10 pm.

More likely if you're on FTTC there's something interfering with your connection, or you're using WiFi and that's very congested where you are.

You'll be slower than many using VDSL2/FTTC as you're on a 40/10 service while most are now on 55/10 or 80/20.

In reply to a post by RR_The_IT_Guy:

ISP load Graph
30 Day graph
24Hour usage

That graph seems to just show 'throughput' no mention of upstream or downstream. Am I misreading?

I'm still a bit confused as to what this thread is about in all honesty. Public peering databases are not always a true reflection of what is going on - for example on a Vodafone connection I just checked there is nothing between Vodafone and Microsoft, they are directly peered but this doesn't show up in online databases.

As others have said, if you have problems then post up what those are and people might be able to help.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by RR_The_IT_Guy:

ISP load Graph
30 Day graph
24Hour usage

That graph seems to just show 'throughput' no mention of upstream or downstream. Am I misreading?

To be honest I didn't do both with the separate stats as I noticed my VM connection can only handle one or the other at full, if you try downloading at say 550 Mbps down the download goes to 500Mbps when you upload at 50Mbps. not sure why, I can never get past a combined 550Mbps not sure if its just me but is strange.

The drop in download with an attempt at saturating is upload is likely due to the congestion you've introduced on your upstream connection slowing down acknowledgement return traffic for the download.

When you're downloading something, there is generally an amount of response traffic in the other direction acknowledging receipt of a portion of the data, and potentially requesting the next chunk.. Exact details depend on the underlying protocols in use.

Just to add to this I had another burst of unusable level internet on Wednesday 2nd August at 17:55 through around 19:21 pm.

I had to resort to my expensive Voda 4g...

Don't they advertise that if they don't keep to the guarenteed speeds you can leave without paying the early termination fees?

In reply to a post by ionic:

The drop in download with an attempt at saturating is upload is likely due to the congestion you've introduced on your upstream connection slowing down acknowledgement return traffic for the download.

When you're downloading something, there is generally an amount of response traffic in the other direction acknowledging receipt of a portion of the data, and potentially requesting the next chunk.. Exact details depend on the underlying protocols in use.

What Ionic said. This is even more of an issue on DoCSIS networks where your last upload of a chunk of data also requests the next set of upload slots. Your TCP acknowledgements may be stuck in the modem's buffer behind a load of your upload waiting to be sent.

Only solution to that is QoS at below your maximum throughput preferentially forwarding small packets to your modem. WFQ does a fair job of this.

EDIT: You could saturate both at once if using UDP. iPerf running in both client and server mode simultaneously would work.

Edited by XGS_Is_On (Fri 04-Aug-23 08:14:21)

Likely but not in this case Ionic. It's good to chat to you by the way I have respect for you from these forums.

I appreciate that upload saturation could cause issues that seem like contension. However, what I am experiencing from Voda 40/10 12UKP/M for VULNERABLE OR SIMILAR customers is that, today, on a Monday, there was little usable internet really from around 6:30pm through now (which is 10:40pm)

The thing is well over (und oops) sold and Voda, it needs fixing! Please don't wait until you merge with O2, none of us can afford to!

Ah, the Voda to. Wow. Nope.

Edited by Naveen (Mon 21-Aug-23 22:50:13)

I think you have a local issue (either local as in just your service, or you're on a small exchange and Vodafone don't have the capacity into it) because if Vodafone was congested to the point that it becomes unusable for an evening then there would be more noise being made about it.

What have Vodafone said when this is reported to them?

Thanks JPM. I am trying to fix the Voda social product for the thousands of people paying 12 a month for it, many of which may well be fully like disabled. That's what the thread's about, when I bought the package I knew there would be Contension but it's MUCH WORSE than I thought. I have to use my mobile phone to internet on a Monday Evening for 2-3 hours?!

What?!

In reply to a post by Naveen:

I am trying to fix the Voda social product for the thousands of people

Wow really!!!!

In reply to a post by Naveen:

Thanks JPM. I am trying to fix the Voda social product for the thousands of people paying 12 a month for it, many of which may well be fully like disabled. That's what the thread's about, when I bought the package I knew there would be Contension but it's MUCH WORSE than I thought. I have to use my mobile phone to internet on a Monday Evening for 2-3 hours?!

What?!

This doesn't make sense. If you really think there are thousands of people using the Vodafone social tariff and that they are all being plagued with the issues you are suffering then where is the tidal wave of complaints? It is far more likely to be a local issue; @mbames and @jpm have already made that point to you but it seems to have gone over your head.

Why do you also assume that you would be hit with contention when you bought the package? Can you imagine the public outcry if any ISP was found to be deliberately restricting or capping access to a social tariff?

Perhaps passing on a phrase many of my friends from London use it is time to give your head a wobble.

Totally agree, some good advice has already been given, if OP wants members here to take them seriously then they need to prove they have done the leg work on eliminating their own connection first by using easy tools like BQM. I also wasn't ware that the Vodafone social tariff was technically any different than their normal tariff's apart from eligibility and cost.

Edited by deleted (Wed 23-Aug-23 08:31:03)

It would make very little sense for Vodafone to invest money in treating social tariff customers any differently at a network level, they're already losing money on the product.

In reply to a post by jpm:

It would make very little sense for Vodafone to invest money in treating social tariff customers any differently at a network level, they're already losing money on the product.

I was thinking the same so was surprised the OP keeps claiming they are on a crusade for people using the Vodafone social tariff.

Still very slow at peak times. Things improved a bit when I convinced twitter support there was a problem. However I am now using mobile internet since as of 05:49 monday morning the VDSL service was good for neither streamed BBC radio nor even tweet messages to Voda itself!

I am loath to call them but my only other option is to switch to BT and pay 3 more pounds a month. Is this a good idea? BT would have to offer compensation for this kind of service I'm sure...

Here is my Ookla result on mobile broadband for anyone curious on this expensive backup solution I should NOT need: The phone is charging in another room and on 4G not 5G.

TEST_DATE TIME_ZONE DOWNLOAD_MEGABITS UPLOAD_MEGABITS LATENCY_MS
09/18/2023 6:19 GMT 28.96 9.33 14 Watford\

A little later this monday early morning and the network is too full already! I normally sometimes get 70/80 down! Not under 18!!
This is with the phone next to the USB AC1300 Wifi device.
TEST_DATE TIME_ZONE DOWNLOAD_MEGABITS UPLOAD_MEGABITS LATENCY_MS SERVER_NAME
09/18/2023 6:32 GMT 17.98 9.35 15 Slough\

From 8:40am onwards this monday both Mobile and Fixed BB have problems on Vodafone. The fixed seems to work at now (9:32am) but the mobile is down it seems according to my PC.

Edited by Naveen (Mon 18-Sep-23 09:32:36)

Well this is interesting!

As of 5:32AM today on Tuesday, both Vodafone Broadband VDSL and 4G went down.

I am sure there is a 4G tower in my central London area.

As of 5:58, 4G still wasn't working as I struggled to use it as a backup hotspot.

Now at 5:59, or 6am, the VDSL is TEMPORARILY working.

This proves (along with my last post about slower speed) that Vodafone do not have the bandwidth, even in Hammersmith W6 London, the area with the most competetive fibre provision, to achieve their network at all.

I'll leave that thought with you. I'm not sure this will post!

Thanks,
Naveen K
edit(s):

1) 4G is still down as of 6:17AM. And 6:22AM (2).

3) 4G is down at 6:30AM... 6:41am (4)

I would like to take this opportunity to ask people to ensure they have no malware on phone or PC. (5)

6) as of 11:15am, the VDSL is down.. 12:15pm, the VDSL not fast enough for radio and hardly working...

Edited by Naveen (Tue 19-Sep-23 12:14:18)

Well I spoke to Voda support and after ensuring I was plugged into the test socket and making sure my splitter seemed ok based on the router stats they reprovisioned my router in real time on the phone. And it seems ... better.

I still half expect to be kicked off the net at 5:38am but honestly it seems fine so far the little I've used it say. I want to be fair to Vodafone staff. Nice work we'll see and I can stop giving you 1/5 on Speedtest.net now, right?

Right?

On the other hand, how many people from my area Won't call up and will assume that they still have that virus and that's what 12 pounds buys them? Some, but less? It's a shame the original provisioning had problems since I joined about 3 months ago.

Also, if you're wondering what 'reprovisioning the router' is, you hold down the reset button for 15 seconds while on the phone to tech support after they run some tests. They are good - I didn't even get a fault reference number.

I'm glad I assumed Voda are competent turns out to be somewhat accurate

edit: I won't edit out the mistake (it was after 5:38am) but here is a speedtest at 6:05am this Friday. I hope this evening goes well too it's just fine...
https://www.speedtest.net/result/15281052188

Edited by Naveen (Fri 22-Sep-23 06:07:54)

Yeah not so fast it seems.

I'm getting a call back from Voda technical team on Monday, but only because their shift ending and they need an hour to go through their tests it seems. An hour, when we reprovisioned the modem on Wednesday? Yeah, sure... call center in India technical team wowee.

Not exactly, frankly. The problem tonight was that at 9pm or so Youtube wasn't playing a simple low resolution music 'file' it was buffering.

Voda are way oversold and out of backbone capacity. The staff tried to fob me off by asking me to do a speedtest then telling me that the internet is working, which it is not (this page didn't even load at all).

She also said that pressing the wifi button on top of the router would turn off wifi. For a technical person, she wasn't very technical. She was assuming I was a moron.

It's too late for me to leave but save yourself and get something fast cheap 3rd party. That's my verdict. I'll let you know how it goes next week after a weekend of doubly paid for slow or nonfunctional Vodafone broadbands (plural) as I'm currently posting with my phone. She didn't give me a fault reference, even.

Right, I have a fault raised with 3rd line support and a reference number.

2nd line support were bad, when I said I was using ethernet they went on to ask how my wifi was?
Also the speedtest they asked me to do failed on upload, much to my satisfaction. Tgey have asked for 3 Speedtest.net results screenshotted and emailed to them, morning, afternoon and evening.

All I can say to that is that this page loaded today but not last time I tried to post on this connection. Even Radio 1 Dance is not streaming currently.

Regards,

Edited by Naveen (Tue 26-Sep-23 12:59:19)

I'm sorry to say this thread has been virtually impossible to follow

For this I apologise
PCJM40
...
I have a mental health difficulty (a serious one) I'm just trying to get the information out there on my own.

Vodafone have raised a ticket for me but it closes Sunday so tomorrow evening (and ACROSS the weekend's busy times) I'll see how the connection does it seems to be better somehow today sofar after the tech on the phone enabled something called ACS on the router.

Hopefully that's done something to help me here. I'll keep you posted.

TL;DR of thread:
Been with Vodafone Home VDSL 40/10 for just over 3 months now (can't ask for refund then)
Slow speeds, probems wifh facebook, twitter posts, even sending email, at Peak Times
Some investigations and comments
Might be working ok (now I've tweeted them a lot and called them a fair few times) but seems far too contended and generally a low quality service even for 12 a month.
Not good for new users in my estimation.

Edited by Naveen (Thu 05-Oct-23 23:57:02)

I just got kicked off my VDSL internet at 2:20 ish PM here in central west London. I would say the network is not ready for the amount of users it has, and would stand by my advice for especially new users to avoid for now.
I may contact Voda support again but it seems that 2nd line did all they could last time. I don't expect a fix in a hurry but Voda did recently run adverts claiming to have the best network in London (!) so you never know, I guess I'm stuck with it and a very expensive Voda mobile contract.

As a Voda customer for many years I'm less than happy with the situation, but at least I've made people aware. If you don't know what I'm saying, there's a so called 'TL;DR' (too long, didn't read) in my last post.

Did you ever post a link here to a live BQM for your broadband?

No, I don't run that because I don't like to have ICMP running on my router.

In reply to a post by Naveen:

No, I don't run that because I don't like to have ICMP running on my router.

I thought you was serious about getting to the bottom of your issue.

There isn't anything wrong, it's a local issue but without troubleshooting it's never going to be uncovered. We're almost four months into this thread and we don't even know the FTTC sync details.

I hope this doesn't stay the current assumed top post for long, but I must admit that Vodafone have sorted out the problems I was having as described (all of which were factual for the record), in around the last 8 weeks. I have not really had problems in this time.

However, I don't accept this fully, as I had to write here (presumably) and also contact them multiple times to try and achieve resolutions which were insufficient as described to me on the phone as I recall.

Everything is fine, and for 12 a month, this is now a good value service that I would recommend (to the around 91% of eligible people in the UK who could benefit from it, yes, this is now my preferred ISP therein) and I hope there are no hard feelings and you are having a good day. I Could have replied earlier, and might have, but what prompts this reply is the

everyone.connected campaign

Congratulations for that Vodafone, and enjoy the money!