Never found commercial favour....

Plenty of standards get heavily pushed by vendors and simply wither and die on the vine. Countless examples abound. Here's one; even in the now utterly dominant world of Ethernet networking there were once competing standards for the same thing: 100 Mbps Fast Ethernet!

100baseT is now 100% universal - but back in the mid-nineties there was a three-way 'VHS/Betamax' war going on between 100BaseTX, 100BaseT4 and the standard pushed by the HP - yes I give you 100VG-AnyLAN... These were all defined IEEE 802. standards but only one ever made it through to dominant and lasting commercial success over the past nearly 30 odd years

Edited by Pheasant (Mon 06-Jun-22 21:07:59)

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

GPON as 2.4 Gbit/s up, 2.4 Gbit/s down exists. I have no idea why no one using it. There is so little documented infomation about it. Even can not find anywhere there it is being used, which make it an even greater fascinating to me. What going on? Why?

More expensive optics in each home for no real gain.

To be honest I wanted to just get rid of the ONT but from everything you've guys have said it sounds like it's quite tricky, and has only been done on OR, and if it has been done it's undocumented.

There must be some other providers that have support for this sort of thing in the UK or no?
Any reason why ISP's etc are reluctant to provide support for this? Or they just can't be bothered?
Why even lock the OLT to specific ONT's I don't get it. There's PPPoE already for auth.
Do they just want a demarcation point or what is it?

Edited by 0007 (Sun 12-Jun-22 03:10:11)

In reply to a post by 0007:

Do they just want a demarcation point or what is it?

Certainly its a demarcation point on the Openreach network, its also worth remembering on a PON if you connect something directly to the fibre coming into your property that affects the light source it won't just affect you but all the other users of the PON so you can see why they don't want you doing it.

In reply to a post by 0007:

Why even lock the OLT to specific ONT's I don't get it

Makes sense to me, everyone's data is presented to every ONT on the PON, you have to have a method of addressing what ONT can read what data.

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-Jun-22 07:13:19)

Just say it is possible but I rather not do it. There are legal issues in which you could become in to a rather hot mess if you did. The main laws I could think of are:-
Computer Misuse Act 1990
Communications Act 2003

Thing like this have happen before, but with different intentions where people used to hack cable modems to get service level there wasn't entitled to. https://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2009/03/19/virgin-...
It just something that comes to my mind. It the reason why I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want to be the test case.

PS I am not saying you are thinking doing same thing.

There must be some other providers that have support for this sort of thing in the UK or no?

In the UK, not a single network. None.

Any reason why ISP's etc are reluctant to provide support for this? Or they just can't be bothered?

From the providers perspective there is zero benefit and more to lose than gain, due to the additional support complexity allowing third party devices into the network. It becomes yet another variable that could go wrong. There are also potential issues with physical network reliability and OH & safety if you give carte blanche on the optical interface. Fibre connectors are far less forgiving of abuse, soiling and mishandling than copper. On a shared PON architecture the operational integrity of all other users on the PON can be affected.

Why even lock the OLT to specific ONT's I don't get it. There's PPPoE already for auth.
Do they just want a demarcation point or what is it?

On a wholesale network like Openreach or CityFibre the network ISPs are able to decide on their own access control protocol whether that’s is PPPoE or IPoE/DHCP - this is separate from the essential lower level network access and security at the GPON level.

For this it is the network operator that must secure their network to ensure that there are no rogue devices that could intentionally steal bandwidth/access or simply other users data

In reply to a post by dect:

Certainly its a demarcation point on the Openreach network, its also worth remembering on a PON if you connect something directly to the fibre coming into your property that affects the light source it won't just affect you but all the other users of the PON so you can see why they don't want you doing it.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In the UK, not a single network. None.

Now that to me makes a lot of sense, but then my question to you would be how do other ISP's accommodate for this outside of the UK. They surely face the same issues that we would face by allowing others to have their own SFP modules etc.

In reply to a post by amiga_dude:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2009/03/19/virgin-...
It just something that comes to my mind. It the reason why I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't want to be the test case.

But that isn't really similar though is it, because you'd still need PPPoE info to be able to actually login to the network which is done at the OLT right, not the ONT?

Edited by 0007 (Sun 12-Jun-22 08:04:54)

PPPoE info to be able to actually login to the network which is done at the OLT right, not the ONT?

You’re confusing two completely different things.

Where PPPoE authentication is used by the ISP (not the network operator) it is negotiated outside of the OLT and ONT security. Neither of those devices take part in that authentication. PPP traffic is like any other traffic and is transparent. On the same PON network you can have multiple ISPs coexisting using a mixture of authentication both with or indeed without PPPoE

Yeah so even more to my point, having it go straight into your own SFP would be no issue for any ISP in terms of being able to get 'free internet' as another poster brought up. As there'd still be the process of authentication (PPPoE), which definitely isn't done at the ONT as you've mentioned.

The main points you all mentioned were:
1) Extra support/issues to accommodate for this w/ no benefit to the provider
2) Fibre connections at risk of being damaged due to connectors.
3) Can affect other Fibre users in the area due to shared PON architecture / light source
4) Eliminates 'Rouge devices' that could steal bandwidth/access data unintended for them.

My point is only to be able to have an ONT SFP Transceiver in my router and avoid having to use the ISP provided ONT.
My main question really now is how do ISP's out of the UK then accommodate for this when there's all these issues that are bought up by allowing the enduser to use a SFP module.

Edited by 0007 (Sun 12-Jun-22 08:33:09)

I’ve nothing more to add, feel like this is all rather circular…