POTS replacement question

Come 2025 we are promised that POTS will switch off.
I'm interested in what will be offered to existing POTS only customers no wanting internet
I could imagine effectively a FTTC connection and in the cabinet a VOIP module supporting a number of copper pairs out to the "luddite" phone users who would effectively not notice the difference apart from loss of phone service during power outages.
Alternatively the telcos could provide locally powered ATA modules inside the premises.

Any one know the approach that will be taken or further reading I could do please?

Those premises without existing broadband who want a telephone service will be given a 512k broadband circuit which will be used to facilitate a telephone VOIP service through the router.

Just to correct you the PSTN will be switched off not POTS.

Edited by deleted (Mon 14-Mar-22 17:34:53)

Thanks for your prompt reply and apologies for my error.

Bob

In reply to a post by 9fingers:

Alternatively the telcos could provide locally powered ATA modules inside the premises.

Pretty much this, with a locked down device supporting no broadband, with at least a 128kbps service. The "ISP" (will be responsible for this voice service, rather than Openreach whom run the PSTN. For many who have voice only services that will be their telco (e.g. BT Retail) providing the data service.

Where confusion will occur is people whom have one provider for Voice (e.g. BT Retail) and one for internet (e.g. Plusnet).

Technology aspects aside, I'm expecting the cost to end users for post-WLR 'landlines' to increase once they effectively carved out of WLR price controls. Perhaps quite significantly.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Technology aspects aside, I'm expecting the cost to end users for post-WLR 'landlines' to increase once they effectively carved out of WLR price controls. Perhaps quite significantly.

This will be interesting to watch, but will the "line rental" component of the broadband charge increase, or will the crazy low rates from the likes of TT & VF continue?

What happens for those that like me have two separate lines (we needed them for home working 10 years ago) where one (BT) is voice only and the second line has broadband (Zen) with voice if we wanted it but don’t use?

The voice only line also has a security system attached.

Neighbours who have a single voice + broadband have had a letter from BT telling them that they will shortly get BT Digital Voice, however as of yet BT have said nothing to us about our voice only service - which is with BT - the line 2 is with Zen.

In due course the broadband circuit will go to FTTP, but no word about the other line. We want to keep two lines and two numbers for operational reasons.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

This will be interesting to watch, but will the "line rental" component of the broadband charge increase, or will the crazy low rates from the likes of TT & VF continue?

"Line rental" will vanish completely. As an end-user, you'll just buy a broadband line - with or without voice. As an ISP buying at wholesale, you'll buy SOGEA or equivalent.

The separate line rental + broadband is already called "transition" pricing by Openreach.

In reply to a post by MercuryRH2:

What happens for those that like me have two separate lines (we needed them for home working 10 years ago) where one (BT) is voice only and the second line has broadband (Zen) with voice if we wanted it but don’t use?

It depends on what you wish to do.

The voice only line also has a security system attached.

The security system will need an upgrade to connect via IP or GSM/GPRS instead of PSTN.

Neighbours who have a single voice + broadband have had a letter from BT telling them that they will shortly get BT Digital Voice, however as of yet BT have said nothing to us about our voice only service - which is with BT

I expect BT are prioritising the migration of voice + broadband customers first. If someone has a BT Smart Hub 2 it is just a case of plugging the existing phones connection into the socket on the SH2 rather than the master socket, although fixed extension wiring has to be tackled differently. Customers with older BT routers will be upgraded to a SH2 or SH3 .

Voice-only is more tricky, as in many cases they will be non tech-savvy and non-internet-using customers. BT, or other voice-only provider, will have to supply a router with inbuilt ATA, likely a Smart Hub 2 in the case of BT, which will need to need to be connected to the master socket and again any phones plugged into the router.

In due course the broadband circuit will go to FTTP, but no word about the other line. We want to keep two lines and two numbers for operational reasons.

Both PSTN numbers will end up being VoIP, you could keep two separate broandband connections or just have one which will support multiple VoIP sessions.

If you are sticking with Zen for broadband you could migrate the existing WLR3 + FTTC to FTTP + Digital Voice (Zen also call their VoIP service this).

Depending on your phone use it may be more cost-effective to migrate the FTTC service only, if Zen permit this, to FTTP or install a new FTTP-only service, if not. Then port the WLR3 PSTN number to a separate VoIP provider (e.g. Sipgate, AAISP, or others) which will cease any services on that copper line. You can configure the Zen-supplied Fritz!Box router to handle third-party VoIP connections, it certainly works with AAISP.

When BT offer IP voice-only you can take up their offer, or once you have resolved the security system communications just port that PSTN number to any VoIP provider.

MercuryRH2

When BT are ready to migrate you they will provide you with a locked down router/ATA for the voice only line. You plug your phone into the router. Whether that is provided by FTTP or FTTC is up to BT.

The security system will need to be vetted to ensure that it works over the new system. If BT knows about it already that will be why you will be at the end of the programme.

Costs will not change for you at the point of migration.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

As an ISP buying at wholesale, you'll buy SOGEA or equivalent.

The equivalent being SOTAP. They’ve been eerily quiet about this given it’s supposed to launch this August.

I think they’re secretly hoping a lot of domestic PSTN-only customer connections will (continue the decades long trend) wither and die on the vine, so to speak.

Leaving them with a rump of a few million “transitional” connections. Still it’s going to be a lot to convert into a broadband service, albeit light-weight for voice traffic.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

Voice-only is more tricky, as in many cases they will be non tech-savvy and non-internet-using customers. BT, or other voice-only provider, will have to supply a router with inbuilt ATA, likely a Smart Hub 2 in the case of BT, which will need to need to be connected to the master socket and again any phones plugged into the router.

Millions of Aunty Doris’s….will they have a power socket adjacent to the phone socket. If they’ve only ever had a phone…

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Millions of Aunty Doris’s….will they have a power socket adjacent to the phone socket. If they’ve only ever had a phone…

If they have a lamp on the 'telephone table' in the hall they can use the socket which provides power for that

Note: For those who have not come across the concept of furniture specifically for the use of making or receiving phone calls use your favourite search engine.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

As an ISP buying at wholesale, you'll buy SOGEA or equivalent.

The equivalent being SOTAP. They’ve been eerily quiet about this given it’s supposed to launch this August.

I think they’re secretly hoping a lot of domestic PSTN-only customer connections will (continue the decades long trend) wither and die on the vine, so to speak.

Leaving them with a rump of a few million “transitional” connections. Still it’s going to be a lot to convert into a broadband service, albeit light-weight for voice traffic.

One problem is what happens during a power cut. Ofcom have said that one solution to this problem is to provide a one hour back up which IME is far to short. What they could have said is that there must be an indoor mobile signal with appropriate power backup as in telephone exchanges at the moment.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

What they could have said is that there must be an indoor mobile signal with appropriate power backup as in telephone exchanges at the moment.

Not sure how many masts would need backup power for this to work, and for how long? Lots of masts are not connected to the core network by cable, but use microwave to another mast in a chain.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Technology aspects aside, I'm expecting the cost to end users for post-WLR 'landlines' to increase once they effectively carved out of WLR price controls. Perhaps quite significantly.

I can imagine that, for the landline/voice only market, the future might rather look like it's back to the past, with a choice of BT, BT or BT for a voice line without a broadband service.

As I understand it, I think BT Group (or KCom in Hull) will be the only provider obliged to offer a voice-only service, and at a regulated price? If so, it's not hard to imagine that the others simply won't bother.

In reply to a post by dect:

Those premises without existing broadband who want a telephone service will be given a 512k broadband circuit which will be used to facilitate a telephone VOIP service through the router.

Just to correct you the PSTN will be switched off not POTS.

Out of curiosity, tow are you defining POTS, and how is your definition distinct from PSTN?

POTS is hardly an official, technical description!

POTS and PSTN are really interchangeable terms for the same thing. You’ll find POTS used more from a North American centric audience.

In reply to a post by binary:

Out of curiosity, tow are you defining POTS, and how is your definition distinct from PSTN?

POTS is hardly an official, technical description!

In my opinion, POTS describes the delivery of the PSTN but its not actually the PSTN itself. POTS can also be used to describe the delivery of products like BT Featurenet 5000 which typically hangs off an SRU in a BT exchange although the SRU can also be located on site too.

Back in the 1990's we used POTS to mean Plain Old Telephone Set although nowadays the 'Set' seems to have evolved into the word 'Service'.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

POTS and PSTN are really interchangeable terms for the same thing. You’ll find POTS used more from a North American centric audience.

You mean like Hoover and Vacuum. are they the same thing?? answers on a postcard

Edited by deleted (Tue 15-Mar-22 16:45:52)

Binary

POTS: Plain old telephone service. ( 64Kbit voice )

As opposed to PANS : Pretty advanced network services.( HD voice plus a plethora of advanced facilities sometimes including video.)

PSTN is built around POTS but has had many added facilities since 1984, ( CLI, Call diversion, Ringback, Blacklist, ISDN etc)

BT's Digital voice appears to be a voice only 64Kbit service so still POTs but could run PANs services using the same platform and different end codecs ( Defaulting to 64K during Codec negotiation at call setup if different end codecs are in place.)

In reply to a post by binary:

Out of curiosity, tow are you defining POTS, and how is your definition distinct from PSTN?

POTS is hardly an official, technical description!

The terms are often use interchangeably, but technically have different meanings.

POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) is an analogue telephone service over copper wires.

PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) is the overall switched network, and is not only connected over copper wires. For example BT used fibre (TPON) to connect some areas to the PSTN.