VOIP if no internet

My brother does not have internet (and refuses to have it) What happens when he loses his analogue landline?

He gets a fibre to his house or his existing line is converted to SOGEA and he gets a Digital Voice adapter of some sort. If everyone is clever enough, they refer to it as Digital Voice and don't explain that it is delivered using Internet protocols, he accepts it and that is the end of that. Or they do tell him that it uses the internet and he has to choose whether to accept it.

A lot depends on why he refuses to have the internet. If he wants a phone but not the internet and is quite rational about it, it shouldn't be a problem.

In truth, while the call(s) may be delivered over the internet it would not be fair to call it as "having the internet" because you can't do anything with it that "having the internet" implies.
It's just a telephone line!

Mobile phone call are also delivered over the internet but if you have a dumb phone you haven't got the internet.

So don't say the word if he won't understand and you don't want to explain.

Edited by Nervous (Fri 14-Mar-25 08:47:39)

The current PSTN switch off is Jan 2027 , still over 20 months away and telephony only customers are likely to be the last group migrated to DV ( assuming they are a BT customer ) , there are two solutions, one as stated , is effectively the customer is provided with a low bandwidth broadband connection (0.5Mb) good enough for IP telephony, the customer provided with a mains powered box the landline phone connects to , they pay the same as they did before …the second option which doesn’t require a mains powered box , but is only a designed to be a short term solution between PSTN switch off and a requirement to use FTTP once it becomes available, is an ATA , sited in the exchange building , the existing copper pair connected to the ATA rather than the PSTN switch , so from the consumer POV , no real change , no mains powered box at the customer property.

I’ve not seen or heard of how , should a new customer order BT telephony only today , post WLR withdrawal, how they actually get a telephone only service provided , I dare say the number of brand new customers wanting telephony only is vanishing small , after all a cheap mobile service is likely to be a better fit for those wanting a telephone only service , rather than paying around £25 for telephony only over a ‘landline’ …plus the chances are those that want this already have it , until Jan 2027 anyway.

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 14-Mar-25 09:56:22)

In reply to a post by michaelh:

My brother does not have internet (and refuses to have it) What happens when he loses his analogue landline?

Does he buy phone service from BT?

There are two possibilities.

1. As described above, BT could provide new equipment that connects to the phone line digitally on one side, and provides an analogue telephone socket on the other side.

2. "SOTAP for Analogue". BT install a media gateway in the exchange, and move his line across to that on the exchange side.

You don't get to choose, but if BT decide to choose to take option (2) in your exchange then there is no reason for anyone to enter the home or for any wiring changes; you brother will see no change. This service will *not* be available for new order; it's intentionally designed just to migrate phone-only services for elderly people with minimum disruption or support, and is expected to shrink over time for obvious reasons.

If BT don't install the media gateway, then they'll have to use option (1). Iif it's an elderly or vulnderable person, they'll be required to support them with the switchover. Furthermore, the device needs to be mains powered, but also needs battery backup in case of power failure. And the internal extension wiring (if any) may need adjusting.

Hence there are short-term reasons for preferring option 2, even though BT would like to stop installing equipment in exchanges, in preparation for the exchange closure programme in the 2030's.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

. . . Iif it's an elderly or vulnderable person, they'll be required to support them with the switchover. Furthermore, the device needs to be mains powered, but also needs battery backup in case of power failure. . . .

It is an OFCOM requirement that vulnerable customers are provided with a means of maintaining emergency contact for at least one hour in the event of a power outage. This may be a UPS or battery back-up at their expense.

In reply to a post by Nervous:

In truth, while the call(s) may be delivered over the internet it would not be fair to call it as "having the internet" because you can't do anything with it that "having the internet" implies.
It's just a telephone line!

Mobile phone call are also delivered over the internet but if you have a dumb phone you haven't got the internet.

So don't say the word if he won't understand and you don't want to explain.

internet - interconnection of many computer networks..

Also the internet is a myriad of protocols, from http(s) to ftp, to vpn and also sip.

We're well into splitting hairs here but the "Internet" is a fairly established term for the global network with addressing managed by IANA, a company private WAN wouldn't qualify even though it's also inter-connected networks.

An FTTP service delivered from a voice-only provider that gives you an ATA, allocates it a private IP address via DHCP and then provisions it remotely has not given you an internet connection but they have given you access to an IP network.

Whether this satisfies the requirements of someone who insists they "don't want an internet connection" would depend on the reasoning why. If it's a security thing then it does tick the box, if they believe they are being affected by electromagnetic radiation then they wouldn't find it acceptable.

I wonder how BT and/or OR handle a sales request for a second telephone line for a fax machine?

Cheers!

Yea, thanks for that, I think.

Hi,

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

I wonder how BT and/or OR handle a sales request for a second telephone line for a fax machine?

Presumably the same way they would handle any request for something they don't sell? Probably along the lines of "no we don't sell those, have you though about [x] instead?", where [x] is the nearest thing to what you want that they think you might buy.

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

I wonder how BT and/or OR handle a sales request for a second telephone line for a fax machine?

Cheers!

I get the tongue in cheek aspect of this, but it does prompt the question how do BT and OR handle a request for a second telephone line? At all?

With the DV adapter being firmly integrated into the router, it looks like another phone line either requires another fibre [which is the thinking of copper telephony] or a standalone ethernet DV adaptor, in which case no one would need BT as their ISP to have a BT phone line.

"Wow, two phone lines? Sounds like you're a small business, let me have someone talk to you about BT Cloud Voice."

I dare say with the massive reduction of call minutes over the years , it’s much more likely that in domestic situations no telephony at all is needed rather than a domestic consumer wanting more than one ‘number’ or multiple lines on the same directory number …..the USO was always a requirement to provide a basic telephone service, a single ‘line’ satisfies the universal service obligation, provision of multiple lines was always a commercial decision, if financially it makes no sense to provide them , there is no obligation for BT to do so , so in these post WLR days , on the few occasions where a domestic consumer requires more than one ‘line’ provided , if that comes with a (paid for) second broadband service chances are it’s is a request that’s considered ,( if SoGEA a second copper pair with its own router/DV port , if FTTP a multi port ONT or two separate ONTs but both with their own router ) ….should the request be for a telephone only second service. and the customer doesn’t want a business solution, then presumably BT will simply request that they find an alternative provider that can satisfy their requirements, if that’s at the cost of losing a customer, so be it.
All speculation on my part , but I don’t suppose BT are inundated with these type of requests.

Edited by Iniltous (Mon 17-Mar-25 14:27:35)

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

I wonder how BT and/or OR handle a sales request for a second telephone line for a fax machine?

They’d probably laugh at Fax, and sell you an expensive solution for a second VOIP service. Many VOIP services and ATA’s support fax if you must.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

I wonder how BT and/or OR handle a sales request for a second telephone line for a fax machine?

They’d probably laugh at Fax, and sell you an expensive solution for a second VOIP service. Many VOIP services and ATA’s support fax if you must.

Pretty badly on the whole.

Not sure why anyone would want to have a physical circuit to run a fax machine, when you've been able to email and instant message attachments for decades. Even mom and pop suburban/country conveyancers have moved with the times. Ot just subscribe to a virtual fax service. There really is minuscule need for a (physical) fax machine nowadays.

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

I wonder how BT and/or OR handle a sales request for a second telephone line for a fax machine?

With laughter?

(More seriously: I believe some ATAs *are* capable of taking modem tones and encapsulating them over SIP. But really, if you're stuck in this situation, it's time to find another job)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Pretty badly on the whole.

Agreed; they are pretty horrendous to get working. Avoid!