In reply to a post by mikegg:

Thanks for the replies.
As a reference point, I had £0.88 in my account and successfully topped up with £10 - no issue about not being able to Top-up.

It is still up in the air but most of us are still hoping that existing Sipgate Starter Customers stay as they are.

A few months ago: I emailed Sipgate again to see if they had reconsidered their plans to end Sipgste Starter for all customers later this year and I pointed out to Sipgate that most companies set out to attract new customers and not to repel existing customers.

Since they announced their plan to end Sipgate Starter Accounts I have been running down my previously active Sipgate Starter Account almost completely and have now almost become a none user with what Sipgate call a dead account. - No doubt many of us have been running down our own Sipgate Accounts in a similar way due to the uncertainty and the proposed complete end of Sipgate Starter Accounts.

Perhaps; its possible that Sipgate will reconsider closing our existing Sipgate Starter Accounts? - Who knows.

Topping up the Sipgate Account may turn out to be a gift to Sipgate of at least £6.00 since, (if the Sipgate Account is closed), the first £6.00 of any money left in the account will be kept by Sipgate. - No big deal as £6.00 is not a lot so if it Carrys on and on I will probably add £10.00 to my Sipgate Account.

I still have both a Sipgate Starter Account and a Voipify Account. - (Both are OK. - Voipfy calls cost less per call but they have quite a high monthly base rate that has just increased to £4.80 per month including VAT before calls. - Some of us have opened accounts with AA but there is no way that I would sign up to a open ended Direct Debit on a potentially hackable system).

The real alternatives to VoIP Phones are mobile phones and these days sim only deals with inclusive unlimited calls and text can cost £5.00 per month including VAT.

Is A&A more "hackable" than other VoIP providers?

Cheers!

No, but I think the point is that you can pay with a credit card to other providers.

Not that it makes much difference I think. You're either liable for the money, or not. The question is more about whether you have to fight for a refund.

An open-ended DD is how most mobile and landline contracts are paid too. However, for anyone who finds that worrying, they can set up a separate bank account, put say £100 in it, and point the DD at that.

In reply to a post by Ancient_Mariner:

Is A&A more "hackable" than other VoIP providers?

Cheers!

With Sipgate Starter, (if your account was hacked), your liability to Sipgate is capped by whatever monies that you have input into the Sipgate account so if it was hacked your liability is limited.

With Voipify I have chosen to set a maximum liability of £20.00 per month as a usage limit.

I asked AA if the monthly Direct Debit liability them for a VOIP phone service could be capped and they said NO.

Since AA do not allow you to cap your liability to them: in the case that your account with AA was hacked it could result in a huge bill being taken directly out of your bank account.

It is the “Open Ended” nature of the AA Direct Debit that stopped me from joining them as I will not sign a Blank Cheque just for a VOIP phone service and that is why I would avoid their VOIP service.

Regards,
Fido

May be I'm just getting old but doesn't a DD stipulate that the company needs to notify you 14 days or so before they can take a payment (e.g. your bill is ready emails), surely if you disagree with the bill and can't resolve it with the company you can cancel the DD and argue it in court.

In reply to a post by dect:

May be I'm just getting old but doesn't a DD stipulate that the company needs to notify you 14 days or so before they can take a payment (e.g. your bill is ready emails), surely if you disagree with the bill and can't resolve it with the company you can cancel the DD and argue it in court.

You can just ring your bank and ask them to reverse a DD charge. I did once do this some time ago for a broadband (ADSL) service. I should say that the supplier suggested that I did this as it would be the quickest way for me to get my money back after I was charged incorrectly.

In reply to a post by dect:

May be I'm just getting old but doesn't a DD stipulate that the company needs to notify you 14 days or so before they can take a payment (e.g. your bill is ready emails), surely if you disagree with the bill and can't resolve it with the company you can cancel the DD and argue it in court.

What can you dispute if the AA records list chargeable calls against your account and they say you are liable as you have signed up to the T&C and an Open Ended Direct Debit ?

As I recall: part of the AA Terms and Conditions is that their VOIP customers sign up to is being liable for any hacking.

Why take an unnecessary risk of ending up out of pocket or in a legal dispute when capped accounts, (via pre payment criterion of an account credit limit that the customer can set), are available ?

If it did end up in court case it is possible that a court could consider this to be an Unfair Contract Term but I suspect that success would be unlikely and in a court case only the solicitors will win.

Also, personally, I do not want to have to keep a close eye on my VOIP accounts.

Since the risk liability is limited in my Sipgate and Voipify Accounts they tend to look after themselves and I just check them every every three months.

Regards,
Fido

In reply to a post by Fido:

Topping up the Sipgate Account may turn out to be a gift to Sipgate of at least £6.00 since, (if the Sipgate Account is closed), the first £6.00 of any money left in the account will be kept by Sipgate. - No big deal as £6.00 is not a lot so if it Carrys on and on I will probably add £10.00 to my Sipgate Account.

When I closed mine in January (moved to A&A for the certainty, whilst it was in my timing/control not a potential arbitrary enforced move by Sipgate) Sipgate returned the £4.72 I had in my account in full.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

As I just read a thread over at ISPreview fora, the “free” Basic (lately renamed Starter) plans that we’ve enjoyed for many years will be with us no longer.

They are being withdrawn to be replaced by plans with a monthly subscription. It’s not clear yet what the new charges will be.

I’ve personally happily used Sipgate since 2012, over a wide variety of broadband and mobile internet connections, and indeed my wife and I have several Basic accounts with geographic numbers with them and have also ported numbers in as well.

Frankly given the present economic turmoil it wasn’t exactly a complete shock that the free service would have to end - but it does leave pause for thought as to whether to stick or jump now. I guess the new pricing regime will need to be revealed.

It's been almost a year since I started this thread, and to date I've still had no comms from Sipgate about any closure of my accounts with them for the Basic / Starter service.

I'm presuming other folks who are pre-existing clients of theirs on the same are similar. As such I've abandoned any plans to move away and happily still using the service .

Let me know if you've been asked to migrate and if so to, what, where and how.

Many thanks

As mentioned earlier, I had registered with sipgate and got a number to 'try' for a couple of weeks before committing to porting my home number, when they closed 'basic' to newcomers. I still have this number with zero credit on it, and it still accepts incoming calls. I have had no coms from sipgate as to any changes.