Moving from BT?

I'm thinking of moving away from BT since my rates have plummetted and tech support is no help.

However, my line has downstream attentuation of 60dB and SNR of about 6 (often lower) - we originally made the move from Wanadoo to BT in the hope that BT would try to fix the line up a bit - alas, they haven't. Is there a reasonable strategy for choosing an ISP which will be able to exert enough pressure on BT to get the line fixed?

In terms of a new ISP - I need something with high download caps (perhaps with an unmetered period during the night) and decent upload (for torrents). On the other hand, the connection doe sneed to be fairly stable and not subject to excessive traffic shaping and limiting (*glares at BT*).

As an ironic aside - on 'phoning BT today, they asked me to take thier speedtest on the BT website. This failed to work, so they decided to direct me here...

Anyway - does anyone have any ideas for a new ISP for me (or even a way to improve the line..)?

Thanks,

Martin

PS: Budget <= about

Edited by martinp23 (Sat 21-Jul-07 14:21:42)

Post your stats (from the BT test socket if possible)

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/adsl_line_stats.php

Does any of this apply to your line?

http://www.dslzoneuk.net/socket.php?type=html

Plugged into the test socket:

(Downstream/Upstream)

Data rate (Kbps)
(1536/448)

Noise margin (dB)
(6.8/15.0)
Output power (dBm)
(16.8/12.3)
Attenuation (dB)
(61.0/31.5)

On a speed test, results are typically much lower:
(0.9/0.3) (Mbit)

Edited by martinp23 (Sat 21-Jul-07 15:23:54)

You say your rates have plummeted, but the sync rate is 1536, which on 61dB attenuation sounds reasonable. What was it before? This sync gives you an IP Profile of 1Mb, and actual download of 0.9Mb from the speed test is good, given that.

If your sync used to be 1728-2240 or gets to that range you would get Profile 1.5Mb, and download speed up to 1.3Mb or slightly more.

So, we need to know your previous speeds, to tell if there are likely to be faults that have developed where we can give you the questions to ask in order to get something done.

Sorry - I had meant to include that info earlier. I have had syncs of >2400 in the past (maybe even higher before then, but I really can't remember). We're about 3.4km from the exchange, with overhead lines nearly all the way (which probably largely account for the poor line speeds).

In January, we had no internet for about 6 weeks when the line snapped in a couple of places. The problem was fixed (clearly!), but now we're getting similar problems as existed even before then, of decreasing SNR and complete drop-outs at times, especially when it's windy or rainy.

Thanks for your help

Ummmm

This may be a rock and a hard place.

Let's pretend no line snaps occurred, but for some reason you were getting these 1536 syncs instead of the 2400 ones. This is to help explain the system.

When you moved to Max, during the 10-day training period the Maximum Stable Rate was determined - the highest speed the system found you could run at without excessive faults/drop-outs. From that the Fault Threshold Rate is calculated - 70% of MSR.

After that, BT will only respond to low sync rates if they are below the FTR.

Unfortunately, it is possible to sync above the MSR, and you may have been doing so in the past.

So, remember ignore the line breaks, with a sync of 1536 you would need to get your ISP to get your FTR info, to show whether or not a "proven" problem exists. If FTR is higher than 1536 - bingo - BT should fix it without argument. If FTR is lower than 1536, tough .

Now - with the line breaks. The question is, as major work has been done - i.e. replacement of parts of your line - does the above argument go out of the window? Or should the repairs have given you as good a sync or even better? I don't know, but I feel it should be as good or better.

To help yourself, try resyncing at low noise times of day - such as before 9am. If you get a sync of 1728 or higher and hold it for 3 days without switching the modem/router off you will get a significant speed increase (about 400kbps). As soon as you have sync'ed please get your SNRM figure - reason explained later.

The other thing is to look inside your Master socket, (open it gently as there may be wires attached to it) - see John's earlier post and check only terminals 2 and 5 are connected. Terminal 3 should be disconnected. If you have extensions, disconnect T3 in those as well.

While you have the master socket open - assuming it is one with the divided face-plate shown in John's link, plug your modem/router into the Test socket that the face plate plugs into. See if you sync better and whether your SNRM changes. It should be very near 6, or very near 9. (6 is the default for Max, and the system ups it in 3s to cope with noisy lines. Your 6.8 could be an increase [good] because you sync'ed at a noisy time - getting 6, noise falls SNRM rises, or it could be a decrease [bad] from 9 as noise has increased since you sync'ed. Whichever, immediately after sync it should be close to the Target SNRM set for your line, so then we know how to interpret future figures).

That's as far as I can help I'm afraid. Oh, remember the BT ISP supplying your ADSL and that you deal with as a customer is BT Retail. The ADSL is actually supplied to them by BT Wholesale, who use the equipment owned and maintained by BT Openreach. All of course separate companies. Makes it nice and easy to get things done, as you have found .

Thanks for that! - I'll try to reset the router tomorrow morning.

I suspect that the MSR would have been quite high, based on a 'phone call BT just had with me - apparantely, my line currently has a profile of 1Mbit - the BT rep said it should be able to attain 2.2Mbit, and so she's going to "make changes to the exchange". On further questioning, it turned out that she was going to turn interleaving off on the connection - hopefully that will help (she seemed convinced..).

I also suspect that there are problems with the line itself, judging by the fact that the connection gets worse when it rains (SNR drops rapidly until the connection drops). Presumably though, I'll only be able to get BT to listen when it starts affecting voice transmissions.

I've removed the lines other than 2 and 5 in my master socket (though I am wondering why, since the faceplate is broken, so we're connecting through the master socket only at the moment!). When we get a replacement faceplate, I'll be sure to check the wiring in the extensions too.

And indeed - it's annoying about BT Openreach != BT Broadband - on the up -side though, you can phone the CEO's office and get things done relatively quickly in all three (as discovered when trying to get this line problem fixed in January - it seems that the whole of the BT Engineering Corps was going to descend on our one line! :P ).

Hopefully things will get better soon - once the line is fairly well fixed, I hope to move to a new ISP to avoid BT's annoying traffic shaping. In general though (ignoring my comment above about the CEO), could I expect to get a better service improving the line from a non-BT company? If anything, I suppose, the call centres in India could be avoided :\.

Thanks for your help - have you got any other ideas (or ideas about ISPs to switch to in the future)?

In reply to:

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though I am wondering why, since the faceplate is broken, so we're connecting through the master socket only at the moment

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Assuming that even though the faceplate is broken (which we didn't know or else I missed it) that you are plugging into it then removing anything other than 2 and 5 minimises any domestic noise being picked up. In particular the one in terminal 3 is the bell wire or ring wire which is no longer needed, and often creates a lot of noise on the line. (It is for old telephones, and as you would have any of those connected through a filter, the filter supplies the ring anyway).

Plugging direct into the Test socket additionally removes any problems associated with extension cabling, as that should be coming off the back of the faceplate. If it isn't, tell us more cos it's wrong.

Turning interleaving off sounds dodgy to me. It is an error correction routine which only slightly affects sync speed, but is more likely to be needed on long lines as more errors can occur. So it might increase sync speed a bit, but decrease throughput as errored packages would need re-sending, instead of being corrected at your end.

Also, saying 2.2 sounds a funny number - it could very well be your MSR. Try asking the q next time, what are your MSR and FTR - but don't be surprised if you have to explain what they are.

For light relief - if you haven't read this page do so. It explains how the system works.