ADSL24

Currently with AOL and about to change-have just received MAC code.

The reasons why I am holding out on passing that onto a new provider are detailed below, and posted for comment.

Live in the North West of UK, local exchange is Cleveleys, and have very bad line

Stats

1152 288

52db 15.5db

12db 28db

We are relatively low users probably about 3gb per month-guess.

We are thinking about joining ADSL24 because they are local to us and are about to launch ( end of August) ADSL2 in our local exchange. This may be quite important to us as we want to maximise our poor speed, as much as is possible. This site speaks well of them, and this is also important.

However, the sting in the tale is that they will charge us �47 to migrate to them because AOL have put us on some type of system, (may be called LLU?) without our knowledge. I have asked them to waive this fee, but they say that they cannot because that bill will be passed to them by BT.

I have contacted other providers such as Newnet and IDnet and they all say that they would not pass that charge onto us. Newnet did say that if we stay with them for 3 months there will be no charge, but if we move within three months we would have to pay �12 towards it. As we have been with AOL for 8 years, the chance of us going through all this again in three months is non-existent!

I have put the views of the other companies to ADSL24, but they remain firm and say that other providers will only do that because they will impose a minimum contract period. This does not appear to be the case, however.

I suppose we could go to another provider until ADSL24 have started there ADSL2 locally, and then look at moving to them, but the chances of moving again within that space of time are remote-8 years with AOL confirms that!

We must be relatively good customers to have, in that we use relatively little bandwidth and are generally loyal and likely to stay with whoever we move to. This is the reason why I am slightly reluctant to give in and pay the �47 to ADSL24. Newnet would give us more for our money in terms of package, but we were looking towards the ADSL2 situation, and the most likely to enable my local exchange will be the local ISP I presume?

I have to say that ADSL24 has been very good at dealing with my queries in relation to the move, and I have no doubt that they would support any move very efficiently.

Am I being unreasonable in not wanting to pay the �47 or are they being so? I would be happy to be contracted to stay with them for 3 months if they would then waive it, but they haven't suggested that course.

Any views anyone?

Thanks

Bertie

adsl24 are clear about the charge, and i don't think its unreasonable, newnet offered to reduce it to �12, idnet said free (i'm sure you spoke to someone to confirm this?!)
a solution which has been mentioned here a few times is freeola, another entanet reseller, who offer 9.99 connection and 9.99 for the 1st month, you could request a mac immediately and be with adsl24 for the 2nd month, or go with newnet anyway, they're inexpensive and well rated here,

You can already get O2 ADSL2+ which is far better value even if you do not have an O2 mobile. You only need the 8Mbps package - which is still ADSL2+. That is your best option, as long as you are happy with a 12-month contract, but you would need to check with them re connection charges in your case.

You have no need of the ADSL24 �19.99 package, as you have pointed out, and the �16.50 is inadequate for you. Newnet Home Lite would suit you fine even if you needed the occasional extra GB or two.

In reply to:

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we were looking towards the ADSL2 situation, and the most likely to enable my local exchange will be the local ISP I presume?

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I think you misunderstand what is happening.

The ADSL2+ (not quite the same as ADSL2 by the way) that is being implemented in your exchange is BT Wholesale, (WBC and WMBC), and all ISPs will have access to it so long as they have access to BT ADSL2+. That is just a case of them buying the relevant kit at their end, as the connection at your end will be there just as ADSL(1) is now.

ADSL24 are an Entanet reseller. Entanet cooperated with BT in trialling BT ADSL2+ and so will be the first ISP to have a proven connection up and running. ADSL24's website is merely reflecting that fact. However, by August many more will be able to supply you with ADSL2+.

ISPs will have a choice of offering WBC, (the bigger players probably), or WMBC, (most of the smaller ones I expect), or of course both depending on geography and populations.

Although the prices for WBC to ISPs have been published I believe, the WMBC prices have not yet been released. So no ISPs have yet come out with the structure of their ADSL2+ offerings.

I have no idea of the Newnet schedule.

I'm not sure what you mean by your "local ISP". Isn't ADSL24 based near Oldham? Entanet are based in Telford. Goodness knows where their Internet servers are - no doubt quite a few goodnesses will tell us .

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 15-Apr-08 20:53:36)

In order to recoup the �40+VAT activation charge they would need to retain you as a customer for over 3 years and that doesn't cover the extra costs of essentially lending that money to you for 4 years. Their business model is based upon a 1 month rolling contract. It's just not reasonable to expect them to take such a risk.

Can I ask why Freeola only charge �9.99 for activation then with a minimum 1 month contract that also only costs �9.99 for the first month?

freeola expect people to stay with them once connected (loyalty), they also charge a higher price with a lower allowance than the other resellers, so a completely different business model.

ukfsn, i'm a bit surprised it would take 4 years to recoup, though the figures in my head suggested about 2 1/2 -3 years, without paying any wages.

Loyalty - Hmmm I suppose some people will fall in to that category however I can also imagine that there are a fair few that will just join them and leave and use them for the cheap connection etc...

I am guessing they just chance their luck and hope people stay?

i guess you're right, and they must be too as they're still in business

The value of the majority of customer connections is only about �1 per month to the reseller. At first glance that means 40 months to recoup that investment for the reseller but that doesn't account for the fact that the reseller would have to front the money and that would mean borrowing and thus additional costs and then the cost of insurance for the risk, admin, etc.

It's just not worth doing unless the ISP is willing to charge more for less and lock the customer into a contract thus getting the money back sooner - even then the risks are still there.

Any business running on 5% gross profit per customer won't be doing it for long. And if that is net of all fixed and variable costs including your own salary or drawings then even that is very close to the wind, especially as you imply the connection charge is passed on at cost.

What I think is unreasonable is that Lines get moved like this - without notice to the customer, they should have a clear choice to stay or migrate - or the "moving ISP" should have to cover the cost of returning the customer to IP Stream if they later wish to move

Conventionally businesses running to so low a margin don't have much chance of survival however many Enta resellers have advantages in that Enta handle billing (and thus credit risk) and support so the reseller's costs are lower on the provision of ADSL.

Unlike many other resellers we operate many other services as we've been running for much longer than we've been partnering with Enta so we do have higher costs (about �1,500 per month fixed costs not counting salaries which are very low by modern standards). I wont say we're not close to the wind but the reality is the same for all small ISPs. It's not an industry known for large margins.