XILO or BE?

Im leaving freedom2surf due to the sudden lack of speed in the evenings and weekends. Im a gamer and use my PS3 for online gaming and the Playstation network. PS3 takes up to 40mins to download a simple update.

Ive heard alot about BE broadband and have noticed XILO in ISP Review as being top of their game.
Both ISPs packages appear to be good (apart from XILOs migration fee of £47.00.
XILO 16MB HOME @ £17.24
BE UNLIMITED @ £17.88 or £20.43 (3 month contract)

Which one should I go for?

I'd say us - but Be do some very good cash back deals.

Bob will be along soon to tell you about them

Edit: it is £17.61.. since the VAT increase as of 1 Jan 2010.

Matt

Edited by uno (Fri 09-Jul-10 17:56:58)

Thanks

Am I right in assuming both Be and XILO are LLU and therefore speeds should be the same regardless of which provider I go for?
According to www.kitz.co.uk, my Exchange has BE and C&W LLU.

Edited by hittyh (Sat 10-Jul-10 00:19:24)

Speeds will be pretty much level as both providers are 2+ but if you wanted to save your pennies - Have a look at QuidCo to see what cashback offers you get with Be.

Matt

In reply to a post by hittyh:

Am I right in assuming both Be and XILO are LLU and therefore speeds should be the same regardless of which provider I go for?
According to www.kitz.com, my Exchange has BE and C&W LLU.

Did I hear my name?

C & W LLU is quite possibly just as good as O2/Be, and is available at a lot more exchanges. However you may have missed a third candidate - O2 Premium.

From your point of view there are two major differences between Be Unlimited and O2 Premium.

First O2 is Interleaved only. Be Unlimited has optional Fast Path on request. The difference is about 11ms from what I see on these forums. O2 20-28ms, Be 9-17ms. Both are stable rather than all over the place.

Second, assuming full cashback as mentioned by Matt, the total first year cost of Be Unlimited is £174.56. O2 Premium is between £40 and £85.

Full price analysis and feature comparison documents produced by MKD.

In fairness to Matt, xilo/uno has little competition on C & W exchanges and O2/Be are absent. Where they are, then basically his major plus point is the reportedly excellent xilo/uno support.

Could I use a friends O2 mobile number, since I dont have one myself?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Could I use a friends O2 mobile number, since I dont have one myself?

Short answer - Yes.

Long answer, as long as he/she doesn't want to use it for O2 discount as well. A single mobile can only be associated with one broadband connection.

The address doesn't matter either.

Note that you don't need an O2 mobile associated with the broadband at sign-up time. In fact as you get 3 months free at the moment you don't need it until just before 3 months is up.

What you do need at sign-up time is a mobile of some sort, any network. That's because lots of texts come between sign-up and migration, telling you what is going on. Like router on its way, and the expected migration date.

It's also important when you associate the O2 mobile number with the broadband, either at sign-up or later, that you have rapid access to the confirmation code that is sent immediately to that number as a security check that you have something to do with that number. Otherwise anyone could quote any O2 mobile number they knew about. Or your friend replies to it for you.

the saving is £5*12 = £60

and the topup required is £10*4 = £40

so even if you got yourself an O2 PAYG phone you would still be saving £20 overall and have some topup credit

But a friend's will do fine aswell as mentioned

Im scared. Seems O2 support isnt that great according to reviews on ISPREVIEW:
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/products/614.html

but the price is pulling me in.
I need to move, but am caught between XILO with a Rolls Royce support level (according to ISPREVIEW) or O2's cheaper alternative.
Help me decide....pleeease.

How likely are you to need broadband help? Things go wrong far less than on BT-based systems.

Remember O2 help is also getting bad ratings because of the annoyance and frustrations of people on O2 Access. O2 LLU service and help seems fine, barring the silliness over Home Moves potentially losing LLU unnecessarily when moving on the same exchange.

In fact, following the link you give, of the 5 reports on the first page only the first, by Ambassador, clearly on Access, says anything bad. The second is glowing and the other three favourable overall.

Recently we have also gained several O2 reps on this forum, who seem to be doing an excellent job sorting out or speeding up the resolution of problems that normal support may be struggling with.

You could try it for 30 days risk-free anyway?

Morning,

Here is another take on it. Would you rather be a number in a billing system or prefer to get some personal touch whilst at the same time supporting a smaller dedicated ISP?

You know us smaller market players are pretty good at what we do

In reply to a post by aquiss:

Morning,

Here is another take on it. Would you rather be a number in a billing system or prefer to get some personal touch whilst at the same time supporting a smaller dedicated ISP?

You know us smaller market players are pretty good at what we do

So you're recommending Xilo?

I'm with BE - First class

I'm with O2 - the best I've ever had.

I agree xilo/uno support is reported to be good, but you don't half have to pay for it!

It's like paying an annual travel insurance policy for complete world-wide multi-trip when you go Eurostar to Paris once a year.

Sold. Signed up for O2 today via quidco.
Looking forward to an expected 13mb download speed at the exchange (hopefully higher).
Using a Netgear DGN2000 at home. Easy to setup?

You set Multi-Plexing Method to LLC and VPI/VCI to 0/101. If it's the same as the 834 series those are on the ADSL settings page.

There is no username or password required on the Basic Settings page, and the connection does not require a login.

In reply to a post by hittyh:

Sold. Signed up for O2 today via quidco.
Looking forward to an expected 13mb download speed at the exchange (hopefully higher).

Depends on your line stats - care to post them?

Been connected now for 4 days and the speeds arent as advertised.
only getting an 8-9mb download. called O2 who advised the setup at their end is fine and to wait up to 2 weeks until the line check is complete to get an accurate measure.

got an email in the morning stating:
Just a note to say that we've completed a health check on the actual speed of your O2 Home Broadband line. Unfortunately it's not as fast as we hoped it would be when you ordered - as your BT line can only support.

Should I take this at face value or ask them to reset my profile or start looking for another ISP?

Post your router stats. See http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php

As batboy said, post your stats and we can comment. It may be that you are running at the max - speeds are generally a guessing game until you actually get connected (and it is unlikely any other ISP would be faster on the line).

stats are:
Downlink 9716kbps
Attenuation 33.0db
Noise Margin 2.4db

Uplink 1300kbps
Attenuation 15.1db
Noise Margin 6.5db

No errors reported

In reply to a post by hittyh:

stats are:
Downlink 9716kbps
Attenuation 33.0db
Noise Margin 2.4db

Uplink 1300kbps
Attenuation 15.1db
Noise Margin 6.5db

No errors reported

Please describe (pictures are best) the poor state of the internal telephone wiring inside your premises, starting at the point where the telephone line enters the premises.

The noise margin somewhat increased last night to 6.4db.
downlink speeds are still 9437mb
Tried the test socket behind the master and got an amazing 15mb+ speeds at 6.4db.
Unplugged the bell wire as mentioned here:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/multiuser/3605804-b...
and tried the master front plate again (not the test socket). I lost 1mb in speed and got 7497MB downlink.
Reinserted the bell wire and got 9437mb again.
Weird, not what I expected because removing the bell wire should have increased the speed since it apparently creates interference.
If im getting 15mb using the test socket, the problem must be the front plate where all my tel extensions are linking to. maybe the extensions are causing the interference.

Should I get an i-plate?
or one of those ADSL+Phone sockets?

Edited by hittyh (Fri 06-Aug-10 09:40:06)

In reply to a post by hittyh:

Tried the test socket behind the master and got an amazing 15mb+ speeds at 6.4db.

...and tried the master front plate again (not the test socket). I lost 1mb in speed and got 7497MB downlink.

If im getting 15mb using the test socket, the problem must be the front plate where all my tel extensions are linking to. maybe the extensions are causing the interference.

Should I get an i-plate?
or one of those ADSL+Phone sockets?

The doubling of downstream sync rate with extension wiring removed suggests (beyond reasonable doubt) that your extension wiring is the source of the problem.

The most effective method of eliminating extension wiring interference to the ADSL signal is to fit a filtered faceplate at the telephone line point of entry to the premises (hopefully, a NTE5) and connect the ADSL router to this socket.
The extension wiring should be connected to terminals 2 & 5 (voice), and 3 (ringer) on the rear of the filtered face-plate.
There will be no ADSL signal available at the extension sockets.

A BT i-plate CANNOT outperform a BT V1.0 ADSL filtered face-plate - it's not electronically possible!

N.B.
NOT all filtered face-plates are equal!!

A frequently recommended (by well-meaning punters on this forum) face-plate (not the BT face-plate) draws current (it must be <4mA - not enough to trigger a 'seize' under normal conditions) continuously from the BT telephone exchange equipment.
At least 1 of the 7 active components is a Zener diode. Most (if not ALL) Zener diode operating/regulating voltages are specified @ 5mA!
'Instability' springs to mind! (Then there's the phase shifts, aquaducts, wine etc - I could go on, but my train leaves in 4 hours!)

Good Luck and Don't believe the hype!

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

A BT i-plate CANNOT outperform a BT V1.0 ADSL filtered face-plate - it's not electronically possible!

N.B.
NOT all filtered face-plates are equal!!

A frequently recommended (by well-meaning punters on this forum) face-plate (not the BT face-plate) draws current (it must be <4mA - not enough to trigger a 'seize' under normal conditions) continuously from the BT telephone exchange equipment.
At least 1 of the 7 active components is a Zener diode. Most (if not ALL) Zener diode operating/regulating voltages are specified @ 5mA!
'Instability' springs to mind! (Then there's the phase shifts, aquaducts, wine etc - I could go on, but my train leaves in 4 hours!)

Good Luck and Don't believe the hype!

Tres interessante.

These days I recommend simple removal of the ring wire. Just for neatness (I have no extensions so no ring wire anyway) I bought an ADSL-Nation filtered faceplate and found the background noise on the line rose slightly. At least that was my conclusion from half a dozen or so duplicated connection speed checks with and without it within a short time (re-sync's not being a danger on O2 LLU which they are on a BT DLM system).

With the ADSL Nation the connection speed was consistently a couple of hundred kbps lower than a newish standard BT (pre-Openreach filtered one) faceplate plus an existing dangly many years old Excelsus or a recent O2 China-made filter. Again, not too important on LLU, but on a BT DLM system could mean a 512kbps or even on ADSL2+ 1Mbps lower profile!

If the ring wire is currently removed and its actually dropped the connection by 1mb, should I consider removing the ring wire on all my extensions too?
Why would this circuit still be live?
A few posts on other forums have experienced an increase in sync speed over a few weeks. Does this make any sense to you?

Im using 3 extensions around the house. 2 phones and a sky box. all with filters.

Edited by hittyh (Mon 09-Aug-10 12:45:56)

I don't know of any reason disconnecting T3 should decrease the connection speed, though I seem to remember one or possibly two similar reports. Compared with something in the 10s of gains, often of over 2Mbps.

Sounds like some other reason.

The connection is still live because the Ring/Bell wire is exactly that. There are only two wires enter the house. They are connected to T2 and T5 at all sockets. So it works.

The capacitor in the master socket creates a signal on T3 when an incoming call is received, presumably fed by a voltage change on the incoming line. So phones ring.

But nearly all modern phones, and (I believe all) filters provide the ring tone anyway. So in nearly all cases the T3 connection isn't needed.

could the faceplate itself be faulty in someway?
perhaps I should change it.

Yes it could.

Remember if you change it you will have to connect the T2 and T5 leads to the extensions to it, and that is best done with an IDC/Krone tool. Low usage ones available from 75p-£2.

Looks like XTE-2005 is the one to go for according to the discussions here:
http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/cabling-faceplate-hel...

ADSL NATION link for XTE-2005:
http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_in...

and use XTF-85 at the extension I need it at:
http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_in...

Provides both filtered and unflitered connections at the master faceplate, so the ADSL signal can be used at he master as well as another extension.
Use 2 and 5 for filtered (ADSL), A and B for unfiltered (to link extensions) and XTF-85 in my bedroom where I need the router.

What do you guys think?

If you are never (never say never) going to position the router at the master socket then no need for a filtered faceplate there. Just a replacement normal one.

ADSL Nation also do the Krone tool.

Not quite sure you have the wiring described correctly. Though it could be you have it right and just I'm confused by the way you say it.

To drive the XTF-85 for the router the connection for that is to the A/B terminals. For simple phone-only extensions connect those to T2 and T5.

according to the pdf instructions here:
http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

The extensions connected to the numbered terminals can be used for voice only as the ADSL signal has been filtered out.
If you would like to extend the unfilterd ADSL signal use the terminals labelled B & A.

In reply to a post by hittyh:

according to the pdf instructions here:
http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

The extensions connected to the numbered terminals can be used for voice only as the ADSL signal has been filtered out.
If you would like to extend the unfiltered ADSL signal use the terminals labelled B & A.

Yes - that's what I said. (I think).

Just got the ADSLnation master plate. I unplugged all the phone extensions around the house to get a pure reading.
I then unplugged all the extensions behind the NTE5. plugged in only the BT incoming wire into the XTE-2005 using only A + B.
Plugged the router direct into the XTE-2005.
only getting 8896kb downlink, 32db attentuation and 6.3db SNR.

I dont understand.
with NTE5 and ringwire plugged in I get 9400kb downlink. ringwire unplugged 8700kb, XTE-2005 8900kb.
Test socket 15000kb.

Kbps and KBps

In reply to a post by hittyh:

Just got the ADSLnation master plate. I unplugged all the phone extensions around the house to get a pure reading.
I then unplugged all the extensions behind the NTE5. plugged in only the BT incoming wire into the XTE-2005 using only A + B.
Plugged the router direct into the XTE-2005.
only getting 8896kb downlink, 32db attentuation and 6.3db SNR.

I dont understand.
with NTE5 and ringwire plugged in I get 9400kb downlink. ringwire unplugged 8700kb, XTE-2005 8900kb.
Test socket 15000kb.

OMG!

Do you really mean you connected the incoming line from outside direct to the faceplate?

Look at this pic. The ADSL Nation faceplate replaces the existing faceplate that is hanging off, and plugs into the (test) socket on the wall. If you have no extensions connected to the ADSL Nation faceplate it should work correctky when plugged in with no wires attached inside.

The oncoming BT lines are connected behind the thing on the wall and you should not be touching those connections - you shouldn't even be able to see them.

Seems to be a misunderstanding. I havent removed the master socket. But I am able to see behind the Master socket.
My wiring is similar to the one showed in your pic.
Except I have 1 Black cable with the mutli coloured wires and another White cable with multi coloured wires.
The black one is BTs and the white cable is what connects all my extensions around the house.
So I have a faceplate with 2 blue and white wires and 2 white and blue wires connected to 2 + 5.
I simply removed the wires from the white cable which disables my extensions from working. So now I have only 1 Black cable with wires connected to 2 + 5.
Hope this makes sense.

wait a sec. are both cables my internal extensions? I have 3 sockets down stairs and 1 upstairs. need to check this again.

Edited by hittyh (Sat 14-Aug-10 17:18:53)

In reply to a post by hittyh:

Seems to be a misunderstanding. I havent removed the master socket. But I am able to see behind the Master socket.
My wiring is similar to the one showed in your pic.
Except I have 1 Black cable with the mutli coloured wires and another White cable with multi coloured wires.
The black one is BTs and the white cable is what connects all my extensions around the house.
So I have a faceplate with 2 blue and white wires and 2 white and blue wires connected to 2 + 5.
I simply removed the wires from the white cable which disables my extensions from working. So now I have only 1 Black cable with wires connected to 2 + 5.
Hope this makes sense

That sounds like the incoming wires could be attached direct to the faceplate. Which they shouldn't be.

Does the test socket still work if you plug a phone or the filter/router into that?

yeah it does. and thats when I get the speed im looking for; 15mb.
i put the face plate on with the wires attached and the speed goes down to 8-9mb.
both the nte5 and the xte5 behave this way with the wires attached.

I think ive realised the 2 sets of wires are actually my extensions. ill remove them and try the face plate again. I still cant make sense how either faceplate is reducing my speed.
and why i get the best speed 9700kbps with the ring wire connected.

The black wire is probably not the right stuff.

See how you get on with none attached, as you say.

Which colours were connected from the white one and which from the black?

Just to be clear here ....

1. Remove the faceplate and check for a dial tone in the test socket. If there is one then the master socket is correctly connected with the incoming line attached to the rear terminals of the box. This means that any wires attached to the faceplate are extensions.

2. Use the faceplate without any extension wires attached to the terminals, this should give you the best results. Assuming everything is OK, then you can look at connecting the extensions.

3. The extensions that will be used for voice only should be connected to the filtered terminals 2,3 & 5 the quality of the cable is not important as these extensions will not be carrying any ADSL signal. Terminal 3 the ring wire must be connected to ensure that all phones will ring properly, there is no advantage to removing it when using the filtered connections. DO not connect anything to the A&B terminals at this point, as long as there are no serious faults on the extensions everything should work fine with speeds close to the maximum you have seen.

4. If you are not intending to leave the router connected directly to the master socket then you can run a dedicated extension from the A&B terminals. As this extension will be carrying the ADSL signal it MUST be twisted pair cable such as CW1308 or CAT5 spec. Connect a single pair to the terminals A&B for example the Blue/White & White/Blue wires, do not connect any other wires in this extension, in particular do not attempt to mix the filtered and unfiltered signals by attempting to connect a ring wire as it is not necessary in your unfiltered extension.

5. On the end of this unfiltered extension, either fit a telephone socket with a microfilter attached or install a flittered extension socket such as the XTF-85.

In reply to a post by Going_Digital:

... or install a flittered extension socket such as the XTF-85.

Nice typo .

Butterfly!

I believe the master face plate has 2 extensions. 1 for upstairs (black cable) and 1 for downstairs (white cable).

Right now both cables are twined together on either 2 and 5 or A and B (depending on the faceplate used) assuming this links them.

Will the Phones still ring if:
a) the extension for downstairs (white cable) is plugged in to 2,3 and 5.
and
b) the extension for upstairs (black cable) where I need the router, is plugged in to A + B.

Edited by hittyh (Mon 16-Aug-10 15:42:24)

The black cable is extremely suspect.

i spoke to aaisp was thinking of joining them but they told would have to get a PPPoE capable router which they could supply for £80 then on top of £50 for install and £30 for fftc rental and units .£160 wowww.maybe time to look at other companys again who offer lower and free router .

In reply to a post by Johnct:

i spoke to aaisp was thinking of joining them but they told would have to get a PPPoE capable router which they could supply for £80 then on top of £50 for install and £30 for fftc rental and units .£160 wowww.maybe time to look at other companys again who offer lower and free router .

What has this got to do with this thread?

this thread is not all to do with xilo or be as you will in the posts in the thread !!

Possibly worth starting a new one anyway to avoid confusion as it has tailed off a fair bit since it was first started.

Matt

ive found out the black cable is for all downstairs extensions and the white is for upstairs.
I connect both white and black cables to the filtered 2,3 and 5 IDC terminals and plug the router into the adslnation socket. I get 15mb downlink.
I keep the black cable in 2,3 and 5, and connect the white cable (upstairs) to A and B. All extensions ring but the speed drops to 9mb still using the master adslnation faceplate.

place all the wires back into 2,3 and 5, I get 15mb again.

What colours are the wires inside the white cable? Are the same colours connected to the same terminal at each end? T2 >> T2 and T5 >> T5.

The black cable uses blue/white, white/blue, orange/white and white/orange.
the white cable use the same plus green/white and white/green.

Note, I havent started the upstairs socket. Still at the master.

Edited by hittyh (Mon 16-Aug-10 20:06:55)

What I mean is to check the wires are connected T2 >> T2 and T5 >> T5. Not T2 >> T5 and T5 >> T2.

sorry. did that. in fact I tried t2 to t5 and t5 to t2 and the phones still work and im still getting the same speeds.

should i try a different plate, like from Clarity?

Ill try the black cable wires in A and B tomorrow and see if thats OK. if i still get 9mb, then the A and B IDC terminals may be faulty. or are not being used the right way?

Edited by hittyh (Mon 16-Aug-10 21:13:13)

The A&B terminals are not faulty, they are unfiltered therefore anything you connect to them is carrying the ADSL signal and will require filters. I get the feeling from the two threads you have going on this subject that you are a bit lost about the differences between filtered and unfiltered connections.

In reply to a post by Going_Digital:

The A&B terminals are not faulty, they are unfiltered therefore anything you connect to them is carrying the ADSL signal and will require filters. I get the feeling from the two threads you have going on this subject that you are a bit lost about the differences between filtered and unfiltered connections.

GRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!

(Not at you John!)

Just CROSS-B-POSTERS should be shot!

you shot me bob lol

Apologies for that. Im learning alot more this way getting input from a number of great experienced members of this forum.
Just to be clear and hopefully prove I do know what im doing, 2,3 and 5 are filtered connections and therefore only voice will work and no need for filters.
A and B are unfiltered and so the ADSL signal as well as voice can pass, but need a filter at every socket.
With this in mind, Ive connected my extension for upstairs (white cable) to A + B on the adslnation master faceplate and the extensions for downstairs to 2,3 and 5. Upstairs I only have 1 extension socket with a filter plugged in separating my phone and ADSL connection.

With this setup, no matter if I plug the router in at the master adslnation faceplate or upstairs filtered extension socket, I still get 9mb. At the master, if I just disconnect A and B, I get 15mb from the main adslnation faceplate (with downstairs extensions connected to 2,3 and 5).

This is how my master looks right now.
http://pic0.picsorlinks.com/ph_or_36677_433084d.jpg

Edited by hittyh (Tue 17-Aug-10 09:51:40)

That proves then that the problem is with the white cable connected to the A&B terminals is the source of the problem. Either there is something connected to it that isn't filtered (that you are not aware of) don't forget things like alarm systems, ringers or sky boxes that may be connected to the line, or the cable is picking up interference and needs to be replaced.

So I did John! Sorry about that . Hope I didn't do you any serious damage.

I meant Darren (Going_Digital), but my brain named the writer of RouterStats.

In reply to a post by Going_Digital:

Apologies Darren. My brain picked up the name of the RouterStats writer when I called you John in my GRRR reply to you. (Or at the moment I think it did ).

I read Johnct's post about it 3 minutes after editing time expired!

so you getting at me after all !!

In reply to a post by Going_Digital:

That proves then that the problem is with the white cable connected to the A&B terminals is the source of the problem. Either there is something connected to it that isn't filtered (that you are not aware of) don't forget things like alarm systems, ringers or sky boxes that may be connected to the line, or the cable is picking up interference and needs to be replaced.

no matter which cable is using A and B, the speed drops to 8-9mb both at master and at extension with filter.
If I unplug A and B and only use 2,3 and 5 at master, i get 15mb.

The filtered connection is working, but the unfiltered connections are being restricted at the master. should I ask for a replacement XTE-2005?

So you are saying that if you connect either the black cable or white you get a drop in speed ?

Either way it is impossible that the faceplate is the problem as the A&B terminals are simply a straight-through connection to the incoming line. Really your only option is not to attempt to use any of the existing cable for and ADSL extension, you would need to create a new extension using the correct grade of cable, either CW1308 or CAT5.

John_ON as in
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