FTTC ISP Options

The last discussion of the FTTC ISPs seems to be from March. Has much changed since then? My exchange is enabled for FTTC but I'm unsure about the suitability of the current ISPs offering services. I'm looking for 100gb, no throttling/traffic shaping and a reasonable price. I'm currently on Be up to 24mb ADSL2+ and get about 7mb.

From what I understand these are the current ISPs available:
BT- Wouldn't touch.
IDNet - Reselling BT product? Same BT problems?
Eclipse - Seems uncompetitive.
A&A - Quite expensive but a possibility.
Xilo - Don't know these guys.

Are there any others?

Thanks.

All current FTTC products from all ISPs are the BT Wholesale product. At the exchange they feed into the WBC/WBMC system.

That isn't the same thing as (re-selling) the BT Broadband Infinity product, in the same way as all ADSL Max products are BT Wholesale but not re-sold BT Broadband.

All non-LLU products of any kind are BT Wholesale and always have been. I expect the differences between ISPs to be similar to now.

FTTC from the likes of O2 are under consideration, but is it unclear whether these will be LLU, where the handover from Openreach would be at the exchange, or BT Wholesale like O2 Access.

I believe Be are looking. I'm sure that would be LLU.

Xilo are very active on these forums, their base one being the resellers and Other Providers one. They have a good reputation.

I think vivaciti.net (who resell Entanet and other wholesalers) are now also offering BTW FTTC.

You current speed is largely irrelevant. It is only your (copper) distance from the FTTC cabinet that affects it.

Another one - Zen. See this post.

myself i was looking at going for bt fttc last week i sent my details to zen as they doing fttc trials i got emaill today saying about prices i was gobsmacked at the biggest one £65 b4 vat
but you get 1000 gigs !! i think if i win anything big on the lotto tomorrow nite i would get it

Yeah, all FTTC connections are based on BT Wholesale, so there is no avoiding them. To get LLU, or in the case of FTTC, SLU (Sub loop unbundling) is very unlikely, as each provider would need their own cabinets everywhere just like BT, instead of just unbundling the central exchange.

Having said that, I've had no problems with my speed so far even though its BT backhaul, i usually get around 90-95% of my BRAS profile (which is another reason people usually want to avoid BTW)

AAISP - The ISP i chose and so far their service is 11 out of 10, they are expensive, especially for peak time usage, but worth it.

Eclipse - their products are aimed at business users, and so maybe that's why they seem uncompetitive.

BT Infinity - Avoid like the plague, unless you plan on using less than 100GB a month, don't mind traffic shaping, and really want an amazing Home Hub (sarcasm).

Xilo/Vivaciti - I have no personal experience of, so can't comment.

IDNet - I know someone with them on FTTC, and hes ecstatic with the service so far, though its only been 2 weeks, but so far so good.

BE(possibly), Talktalk, Sky, and PlusNet will be offering FTTC in the future, but again, they'll all be based on BT Wholesale.

In reply to a post by reddev86:

Ummm

FTTC is an Openreach product. The handover from Openreach at the exchange is by an ethernet connection to any provider with suitable equipment there. I don't know if DSLAMs are suitable, but MSANs certainly are and anyone can install those.

So any current or future LLU supplier could have exactly the same connection from the exchange to the customer as BT Wholesale does. In other words, no different in concept from current LLU connections.

I have a feeling Plusnet are already providing FTTC, but it may be trials with pre-existing customers.

What evidence have you for saying Be, TT or Sky FTTC will be BT Wholesale based?

I believe BE are looking. I'm sure that would be LLU

Resold FTTC or GEA handover or perhaps a combination of both based on exchange / demand
Most seem to favour GEA handover - much more logical for BE, but resold would likely provide better coverage
http://blog.bethere.co.uk/2010/07/tom-talks-about-fi...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Another one - Zen. See this post.

Zen are currently trialling the product with some existing customers but hope to start it commercially around September time I think. I am part of the trial and was the first to be connected following the staff only trial.

I believe people can register their interest at Zen's website www.zen.co.uk

In reply to a post by nredwood:

I believe BE are looking. I'm sure that would be LLU

Resold FTTC or GEA handover or perhaps a combination of both based on exchange / demand
Most seem to favour GEA handover - much more logical for BE, but resold would likely provide better coverage
http://blog.bethere.co.uk/2010/07/tom-talks-about-fi...

but thanks.

I don't like the look of what Tom Williams says. Looks almost certain it will be WBC. Which is wierd as it requires links to at least one WBMC node setting up. With a 12-month minimum period I think.

As has been said in the blog, that means WBC DLM/profiling and possible congestion. That system is semi-borked at the moment.

Re GEA, didn't you link to contractual problems Be or O2 were having over that? I expect there is also the possibility, probability even, that the Be backhaul just wouldn't be able to cope at this stage with the throughput that would ensue.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 28-Jul-10 10:57:38)

Good Morning,

Not sure if our options are inline with your thoughts?
http://www.aquiss.net/broadband-fibre.php

We only charge £25.00 for our setup, which generally competitive to others.

Edited by aquiss (Wed 28-Jul-10 11:27:25)

Be will have or be getting WBC for handling the O2 non-LLU customers anyway, won't they ?

In reply to a post by yarwell:

Be will have or be getting WBC for handling the O2 non-LLU customers anyway, won't they ?

I had thought of that the other way round, as in I wondered what O2 would do, but your specific point hadn't occurred to me in this context. Obviously it had in the past.

In fact we don't know how the O2 Access customers are provisioned at the moment. IPStream as at first, or partially/fully transferred to IPSC.

Neither do we know whether they will be going WBC or WBMC. I suppose WBC would make sense if they see Access as a long-term product, but WBMC I would think may be what they are intending. Depends on the customer base I suppose, and again we have no breakdown between LLU and Access.

I don't expect anything more detailed than that blog will be forthcoming for some time. Or maybe that was a feeler to see what reactions were obtained via the blog and from the survey, to help decide on policy.

Thanks for all the feedback.

I'm with Be at the moment and the service has been excellent so really I don't want to switch and would take FTTC from Be tomorrow if they offered it. The problem is it seems unlikely to be anytime soon.

But I think I'm willing to try a change. A&A seems appealing due to the flexibility on bandwidth but I need to get a better idea of how much is being used during peak times as it could get expensive.

I believe there is work on GEA handover happening now

In reply to a post by nredwood:

I believe there is work on GEA handover happening now

That's good. Maybe he means both that & WBC/WBMC are on the way, with WBC/WBMC first.

Will the Be Landline product make it easier for them to deliver FTTC?

No, the process would be the same as they seem to use WLR.

Matt

In reply to a post by reddev86:

Yeah, all FTTC connections are based on BT Wholesale, so there is no avoiding them. To get LLU, or in the case of FTTC, SLU (Sub loop unbundling) is very unlikely, as each provider would need their own cabinets everywhere just like BT, instead of just unbundling the central exchange.

Having said that, I've had no problems with my speed so far even though its BT backhaul, i usually get around 90-95% of my BRAS profile (which is another reason people usually want to avoid BTW)

AAISP - The ISP i chose and so far their service is 11 out of 10, they are expensive, especially for peak time usage, but worth it.

Eclipse - their products are aimed at business users, and so maybe that's why they seem uncompetitive.

BT Infinity - Avoid like the plague, unless you plan on using less than 100GB a month, don't mind traffic shaping, and really want an amazing Home Hub (sarcasm).

Xilo/Vivaciti - I have no personal experience of, so can't comment.

IDNet - I know someone with them on FTTC, and hes ecstatic with the service so far, though its only been 2 weeks, but so far so good.

BE(possibly), Talktalk, Sky, and PlusNet will be offering FTTC in the future, but again, they'll all be based on BT Wholesale.

Only nubs get caught in the shaping though. BT is generally the cheapest overall.

Well I've decided to go with AAISP.

I'm having some trouble working out how to best get it installed considering where the master socket is but I think i've found a solution.

I'll report back once it's up and running.

In reply to a post by reddev86:

Yeah, all FTTC connections are based on BT Wholesale, so there is no avoiding them. To get LLU, or in the case of FTTC, SLU (Sub loop unbundling) is very unlikely, as each provider would need their own cabinets everywhere just like BT, instead of just unbundling the central exchange.

Having said that, I've had no problems with my speed so far even though its BT backhaul, i usually get around 90-95% of my BRAS profile (which is another reason people usually want to avoid BTW)

AAISP - The ISP i chose and so far their service is 11 out of 10, they are expensive, especially for peak time usage, but worth it.

Eclipse - their products are aimed at business users, and so maybe that's why they seem uncompetitive.

BT Infinity - Avoid like the plague, unless you plan on using less than 100GB a month, don't mind traffic shaping, and really want an amazing Home Hub (sarcasm).

Xilo/Vivaciti - I have no personal experience of, so can't comment.

IDNet - I know someone with them on FTTC, and hes ecstatic with the service so far, though its only been 2 weeks, but so far so good.

BE(possibly), Talktalk, Sky, and PlusNet will be offering FTTC in the future, but again, they'll all be based on BT Wholesale.

BT have apparently upped their download limits to 300GB for FTTC.

Details taken from BT Forum here --> http://bit.ly/alj0j9

Hi Everyone

I�d like to clarify a couple of points that have been raised to me via private message.

The increase to the heavy user threshold from 100GB to 300GB is already in place now.

There is no change to the usage allowance for BT Total Broadband Option 1 customers � this remains as 10GB. Additional usage for BT Total Broadband Option 1 customers will also be charged at 5GB for £5 (instead of 1GB for £1). If you find that you are likely to incur additional use charges, it may be worthwhile reviewing which broadband option you are on, details of the different monthly usage allowances can be found here. Or if you want to upgrade your broadband package you can find more information here.

Thx

Kerry