New ISP Provider Options: Speed & Traffic Management

Hi all

I am currently with Virgin, have been for many years.

We used to enjoy high speeds with them when we lived in a cable area on the outskirts of London. Then we moved and continued with V ADSL through a BT connection and much slower speeds than I was used to.

We are now moving one street away from where we live, pretty much equidistant from the BT exchange which is about 100 yards from either property. My thoughts turn therefore to other providers and a new contract.

I have been fed up with Virgin for some time : at night speeds frequently drop from 800 kb/s during the day to 60 kb/s all night long, making 4OD, BBC iPlayer etc almost impossible. This drop is not directly related to my internet usage i.e. happens a lot when I have not dl anything or streamed anything for a few days.

I also on a few days of the week download 800 mb and over in one go, which takes me hours instead of minutes if I persevere with it.

Virgin have a traffic management policy. I understand BT also restrict P2P. What does P2P mean exactly in BT's case over and above peer to peer? Is it mainly torrent based actions? Or anyone using one of the filesharing websites (Rapidshare, Fileshare, or Mega this that and the other?)

I'd much appreciate it if anyone could recommend a good provider fir my situation. Apologies for the text heavy question but it seemed advisable to provide a bit of background..

Thanks

BGD

Edited by deleted (Fri 28-Oct-11 22:21:42)

Virgin Media ADSL (i.e. non-cable) is notorious for slow speeds and bad congestion.

The heavy text lacks your exchange, without which we can we can make no recommendations.

Thank you for the reply XRaySpeX

Here is my local BT exchange: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/NDBRO if this helps.

In reply to a post by BGD:

Thank you for the reply XRaySpeX

Here is my local BT exchange: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/NDBRO if this helps.

Hi BGD, take a look at Orange, your exchange has 20 Meg speed 21CN WBC which is what Orange use. It works out cheaper if you have broadband and landline phone contract with the them, also if you already have a mobile phone contract with Orange the broadband price is reduced by £5 per month.

http://shop.orange.co.uk/broadband/compare-all/

http://help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/6...

Edited by deleted (Sat 29-Oct-11 13:15:28)

P2P meets torrents

HTTP file downloads are just that, and not affected beyond normal contention

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

P2P meets torrents

There's a long way on a keyboard between et and am, but I think you mean "means", not "meets".

Sky Unlimited LLU is a good choice.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

P2P meets torrents

There's a long way on a keyboard between et and am, but I think you mean "means", not "meets".

I think you meant an didn't you ?

Ray

Oh, lots of censored words ... !!!

Indeed I did LOL! But at least they are mrcy to each other .

Thanks Mr Saffron good to know

Many thanks E7er. Is it likely that I'd get close to 20 megs then? That would be over double what I'm getting now at best.

Speed you get is dependant on line length, what attenuation does the line have - figure will be available from modem

In reply to a post by BGD:

Many thanks E7er. Is it likely that I'd get close to 20 megs then? That would be over double what I'm getting now at best.

Hi BGD, as Mr Saffron says, you get the estimate of your line speed capability from your ADSL router/modem stats...

My 2Wire 2700HGV router stats
View Broadband Link Details
DSL Connection Details DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 10985 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1156 kbps
Channel: Fast
Current Noise Margin: 4.7 dB (Downstream), 6.4 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 31.1 dB (Downstream), 15.7 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 20.6 dBm (Downstream), 12.4 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {0xBE71}

Then Enter the data from your ADSL modem to receive an estimate of the lines capabilities into the programme.

http://www.farina1.com/adsl/

In reply to a post by E7er:

Hi BGD, as Mr Saffron says, you get the estimate of your line speed capability from your ADSL router/modem stats...

Thank you both. Having some difficulties connecting to the modem to check, will have to look into.

Help finding router stats.

Hello E7er, Andrew, Roberto & others.

I have finally found the time after a hectic couple of weeks to do as you suggested. I am moving from my present home in just over a month. The new place will be almost equidistant from the exchange (see above in thread) and so I'm trying to decide what ISP is best for me. It does irritate that Virgin freq drops back to a crawl after 6pm and so I'm hoping to be able to make the right decision before signing a new contract with them or someone else.

I've tapped in my router details to Farina1.com and the results are on this image paste site here (or I can specify here if preferred). Any steers as to my options would be much appreciated!

Many thanks

Ben

There is a tiny possibility that the route back to the exchange from the new address could be much longer, let's hope not. Ideally you would see if you could get the line stats from the current occupant's router .

Ignoring that, two things are preventing those high speeds where you are now. First you are almost certainly on an "up to 8Mbps" package, whereas nearly every ISP on that exchange offers "up to 20 or 24Mbps".

But secondly, despite that, you should be connecting at 8Mbps. The drop from that could be down to the house phone wiring, which you can ignore where you are but need to check for at the new property, or to something like an unfiltered Sky box or other problem. So either issue could go with you and severely affect the speed you get compared to the expected.

Sky LLU has been mentioned. Since 1 September that is Full LLU only, which can be a pain if you want to migrate. The service itself should be fine on the unlimited package.

TalkTalk - many of us are against it, and your usage makes me think you would get considerable traffic management effects.

Orange has been mentioned. When that was first transferred to BT Wholesale White Label it seemed an improvement on Orange LLU, but there seem to be a few less happy punters turning up more recently.

To what extent is price an issue? You can get an LLU package using the TalkTalk exchange equipment, (but not their network), with unlimited allowance and no traffic management, but you would be looking at £40pm or so .

On "normal" BT Wholesale based connections, you couldn't go far wrong with IDNet Home Pro as long as you can keep the peak time usage within the 40GB. The allowances are applicable at the weekend as well though.

There is also BT Broadband itself of course, which is unlimited but has traffic management, and even Plusnet is worth looking at if you can stay withing the 80GB peak usage, which IIRC is weekdays only. That has a "Pro" option to remove the traffic management and priorise gaming, if that is of interest.

BT Wholesale products are not as bad as they were, as the new WBC DLM Profiling system is much better than the old one and no longer messes people up as much.

After one of the most interminable purchasing processes we have exchanged and therefore I am about to order our broadband package!

Sky LLU seem to take forever to get us up and running but are competitively priced although of course heavily push upselling options. But I have excluded them due to duration.

Orange (£22.75) are very competitively priced - £10pm + £12.75 per month (line) free calls anytime and no metered broadband, estimated speed (acc to call centre) 'up to' 17mb.

BT (£35) are the least competitively priced but suggest the quickest turnaround (5 days). £25pm Unlimited broadband and £10 pm line rental (only evening/weekend calls)

Talk Talk are pricier and have a lot of customer service critics and IDNet as mentioned have traffic management.

So it would seem that Orange are the best bet offering the most, for least.

If I may therefore ask a supplementary question of you or others Roberto - am I missing out on a critical issue that might make me wish I had considered out after signing on the dotted line? I.E. Is Orange getting some quite critical customers? Are they likely to be one of the slower providers on the market? etc.

I am hoping for an unlimited broadband package at a competitive cost that offers a quality service plus a telephone line for occasional use (I have a Vonage phone for work which does me fine for all calls).

Many thanks

Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Feb-12 16:54:51)

In reply to a post by BGD:

Orange (£22.75) are very competitively priced - £10pm + £12.75 per month (line) free calls anytime and no metered broadband, estimated speed (acc to call centre) 'up to' 17mb.

That's the standard price for Orange mobile customers only - add on a fiver if youre not one. Catches with Orange include moderate but sizeable peak time congestion in evenings, and newly extended p2p throttling hours (Orange still claim till 11.30pm, its 1.30am). They are more relaxed nowadays, so it's not too difficult to leave after a month if you see these issues, but you are bound by the contract and relying on their goodwill policy.

What is the lead time quoted by Sky? Might be worth waiting for? I'd also recommend checking out the price of unlimited BT Business Broadband, and considering that TalkTalk offer good customer service and support if you stick to their members forum.

Hello VimtoGirl and many thanks for the tips. Sky will take a month, about a week more than Orange. I am an Orange mobile customer at present, though I may move onto 'pay as you go' (i.e. little use) soon.

The P2P is not an issue as I do not use torrents. Other files sharing types, I do sometimes (Rapidshare etc)

The congestion issue from Orange might be more problematic. That is the reason I am leaving Virgin, my provider.

I understood from earlier in this thread that Orange have a fair service level at my exchange, meaning these issues should not appear, but I am not an aficionado here and reliant on the accumulated wisdom of others.

Do you believe I should realistically expect to have slow down issues?

Thanks

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-12 14:09:35)

Have you had a browse of the Orange forum?

A quick look Roberto, yes. I did not notice before that they have now moved from LLU back to BT?

Goodness, think you know what option to move to and then..

In reply to a post by BGD:

I am an Orange mobile customer at present, though I may move onto 'pay as you go' (i.e. little use) soon.

Be careful with how little, you can't just keep it dormant to qualify for the discount. You need to top up or make a call on your PAYG phone at least every 6 months, and also top up at least £10 every 15 months.

The congestion issue from Orange might be more problematic. That is the reason I am leaving Virgin, my provider. I understood from earlier in this thread that Orange have a fair service level at my exchange, meaning these issues should not appear. Do you believe I should realistically expect to have slow down issues?

I'm not sure I can find any post which says this. In any case, the congestion is not at the exchange level. A thing called a TAP3 Speedtest reveals the issue is due to the Orange leg of the network. I have access to a BT Broadband line and an Orange line to the same property which also confirms the issue lies with Orange. Im posting from the Orange connection right now : ). Your mileage can still vary with region however and I doubt it will be anywhere near as bad as your Virgin service, if you want to chance it : ) It's certainly a great price all-in for Orange customers.

Yes, it is a BT Wholesale White label service like the Post Office, and like Vodafone are about to cease to be.

So rather than being a normal ISP they just hand the whole malarkey over to BTW and say "Please keep these people happy". I have a feeling even the help lines are BTW but could be wrong. Just the sales are their own.

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

Catches with Orange include moderate but sizeable peak time congestion in evenings

Where? Evidence? I have none!

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

reveals the issue is due to the Orange leg of the network.

Orange don't have any legs of the Network! It is all run by BT Wholesale White Label.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Orange don't have any legs of the Network! It is all run by BT Wholesale White Label.

It doesn't matter who's running it - Orange spec the capacity, Orange pay for the service, and it is dedicated bandwidth for Orange customers - this is what I call an Orange leg of the network.

White Label services are not identical, and are not all the same as BT Retail.

You may have no evidence of peak time congestion on the Orange legs, but I have very solid evidence.

Thanks Roberto & XraySpex. So is there any reason to think it will be a certain level of service, speed wise? I would hate to leave Virgin getting poor levels and go to orange/BT for the same.

On my exchange is one provider likely to be faster than another within a similar monthly rate (give or take).

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-12 15:28:08)

Here's what I'm looking at.

£22.75 Orange Unlimited Broadband, anytime calls, (add £5 GBP if not a mobile customer)
£35 BT Unlimited broadband and evening/weekend calls.
£36pm SKY Unlimited as below without TV
£41pm Sky Unlimited with TV and eve/wknd calls.


Just need to make sure the BB actually moves, not crawls.

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-12 15:37:39)

Thought Sky Unlimited with eve/wknd calls was only £19.75 (£12.25 for 6 months)?

Hi Xray Spex

It is £20 pm for 6 months, followed by £27.50 for six months plus £12.25 per month line rental. Added together and divided by 12 for a year's contract it makes £36pm.

http://www.sky.com/shop/broadband-talk/#join

Edited by deleted (Fri 03-Feb-12 16:11:35)

No, that's with TV. I'm talking about w/out TV, just BB + E/W calls.

In reply to a post by BGD:

Hi Xray Spex

It is £20 pm for 6 months, followed by £27.50 for six months plus £12.25 per month line rental. Added together and divided by 12 for a year's contract it makes £36pm.

http://www.sky.com/shop/broadband-talk/#join

Sky line rental is £9.95/mth if you pay 12 months upfront, otherwise its £12.25.
Sky broadband is £7.50/mth if you also have a TV package, otherwise it's £10/mth.
Sky's anytime call package is £5/mth.
They have a current offer of 6 months free for the broadband portion (but not the line rental).

So, you can get Sky Broadband and anytime calls without TV for £25/mth if you wanted.

Confusing site! What I previously saw was prices for BB + Calls within a TV package, without actually saying it was a TV package.

I now find that Sky Unlimited with eve/wknd calls (no TV) is only £22.25 (£12.25 for 6 months) averaging £17.25 pm.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 03-Feb-12 20:07:48)

In reply to a post by BGD:

Talk Talk are pricier and have a lot of customer service critics and IDNet as mentioned have traffic management.

Am I missing something? As far as I know iDNet, haven't currently and, never have had traffic management. In this they are pretty much the same as Zen and NewNet. The only thing all three do is bandwidth limits - you get a set amount of bandwidth, after that you pay extra.

Edited by Tacitus (Fri 03-Feb-12 18:30:49)

@XRS: yes, sorry, promotion-bombed there and got the wrong package elements, you are correct.

@Tacitus - yes, true. I shorthandedly just meant that at the lower, competitive price rates they charge for usage up to a fixed point so it's not open usage for your subscription, it's limited usage.

As with other white label packages you can vary the QoS you buy, and the Ofcom speed report if you dig beyond the basic headline is interesting, i.e. the other metrics

There is the resller option with TalkTalk.
I went with XILO on their TalkSurfPro 50Gb month package for £26 a month, this includes line rental and its a 1 month contract. No calls plans so if you spend alot of time on the phone maybe not the one for you but the broadband performance has been exceptional, both speeds consistent at any time of day (speed tested) and pings for gaming brilliant. Also no line profiling which is worth its weight in gold and no throttling of any kind.

In reply to a post by BGD:

After one of the most interminable purchasing processes we have exchanged and therefore I am about to order our broadband package!

Orange (£22.75) are very competitively priced - £10pm + £12.75 per month (line) free calls anytime and no metered broadband, estimated speed (acc to call centre) 'up to' 17mb.

So it would seem that Orange are the best bet offering the most, for least.

If I may therefore ask a supplementary question of you or others Roberto - am I missing out on a critical issue that might make me wish I had considered out after signing on the dotted line? I.E. Is Orange getting some quite critical customers? Are they likely to be one of the slower providers on the market? etc.

I am hoping for an unlimited broadband package at a competitive cost that offers a quality service plus a telephone line for occasional use (I have a Vonage phone for work which does me fine for all calls).

Many thanks

Hi, if you are considering Orange broadband and your mobile phone on PAYG, you can qualify for the £5 per month reduction off the broadband price if you take out the Dolphin £7 pay monthly contract. Which means you get 250MB data mobile Internet & 500 texts & 150 anytime minutes all for £2 per month.

I am going for this with Orange next month when my 24 months T-Mobile phone contract will end.

http://shop.orange.co.uk/mobile-phones/price-plans/p...

Do people moving networks always take their number with them, or can that come to a halt after the first move?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Do people moving networks always take their number with them, or can that come to a halt after the first move?

I have looked into mobile phone number portability and you apply to your current mobile phone network operator for a PAC (Port Authorisation Code). With this code you can keep and transfer your number to a new network operator. Good aye!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAC_code

http://shop.orange.co.uk/shop/help/keep

http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-support/index...

I know how it works when you move from the originating network. But at one time it was certainly doubtful that you could then move it to a third network or even back to the originator. The point being that the number isn't in the later holder's range so may not be transferable.

I was asking about the current position on that .

Compare with landline where so far as I know even BT don't guarantee number retention on a Return to Donor.