Cable to ADSL migration - ISP recommendations +more

Hi there,
I'm at the end of my tether with my current Virgin 50mbit connection and I'm jumping ship this weekend. I'm currently looking for a new provider.

At the moment, I'm getting HUGE packet loss (30+% is quite normal), high latency and poor download speeds at peak times ('high utilisation' - over subscription). Virgin are not willing to do anything to fix the problems I'm having and I'm not willing to pay the full amount for a sub par service. I'm currently having to use my phones data connection (3) to tether during peak hours.

Here is yesterdays 'thinkbroadband broadband quality monitor' graph: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/1dc1a7b2fa2...

Speedtest.net result: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1696925285.png
Pingtest.net result: http://www.pingtest.net/result/54173926.png

A ping test to a couple of UK game servers (taken at 21:39 - 09/01/12):

Ping statistics for 78.129.236.97:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 87, Lost = 13 (13% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 43ms, Maximum = 426ms, Average = 132ms

Ping statistics for 83.142.230.55:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 84, Lost = 16 (16% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 29ms, Maximum = 288ms, Average = 99ms


I'm currently out of the loop with regards to what services are famed as being the best with it comes to ADSL having migrating from Nildram to VM many years ago. BT broadband availability checker says this:

http://i.imgur.com/jcRcN.jpg


Would anyone give me any pointers as to what I should go for? I just want a stable connection that doesn't cost the earth, lets me use the connection how I want to with no limits or throttling, play online games with (little to) no lag and upload my photo backups as and when I please. I understand that no internet will be perfect all day, ever day but anything is more stable than my current connection. Any answers are very much appreciated.

Alex.

The two main things we need to know are how much you download per month, and if it is a lot can it be scheduled to night-time, (off-peak), and how much are you willing to pay for the broadband itself. Remember you will also have to pay for landline line rental and possibly an "included" call package as well.

That line rental will be £10-£14pm, with an installation cost of £30 -£130 depending on what is present there now and what length of contract you will accept - one month up to 18 months.

The broadband contract will probably be 1, 3 or 12 months.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 10-Jan-12 20:48:54)

The whole household will use between 50gb-100gb per month, most of that is streaming services and photo uploads.

Cost of the broadband itself I want to try and keep under £20 a month but I'm willing to push that to a few pound more if the service will be more reliable or have better CS.

The phone line will probably be with the Post Office as they're doing free line installation until March, a 30 day contract and the line rental includes a few free calling minutes.

In reply to a post by pspr33:

Hi there,
I'm at the end of my tether with my current Virgin 50mbit connection and I'm jumping ship this weekend. I'm currently looking for a new provider.

At the moment, I'm getting HUGE packet loss (30+% is quite normal), high latency and poor download speeds at peak times ('high utilisation' - over subscription). Virgin are not willing to do anything to fix the problems I'm having and I'm not willing to pay the full amount for a sub par service. I'm currently having to use my phones data connection (3) to tether during peak hours. As you have BE/02 LLU available in

Here is yesterdays 'thinkbroadband broadband quality monitor' graph: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/1dc1a7b2fa2...

Speedtest.net result: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1696925285.png
Pingtest.net result: http://www.pingtest.net/result/54173926.png

A ping test to a couple of UK game servers (taken at 21:39 - 09/01/12):

Ping statistics for 78.129.236.97:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 87, Lost = 13 (13% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 43ms, Maximum = 426ms, Average = 132ms

Ping statistics for 83.142.230.55:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 84, Lost = 16 (16% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 29ms, Maximum = 288ms, Average = 99ms


I'm currently out of the loop with regards to what services are famed as being the best with it comes to ADSL having migrating from Nildram to VM many years ago. BT broadband availability checker says this:

http://i.imgur.com/jcRcN.jpg


Would anyone give me any pointers as to what I should go for? I just want a stable connection that doesn't cost the earth, lets me use the connection how I want to with no limits or throttling, play online games with (little to) no lag and upload my photo backups as and when I please. I understand that no internet will be perfect all day, ever day but anything is more stable than my current connection. Any answers are very much appreciated.

Alex.

Hi, according to Sam knows exchange WMSTK BE/o2 LLU is enabled, So you could Take advantage of BE wholesale via a reseller/wholesale partner such as Here Here
No set up/migration fees and the possibility of a rolling monthly contract instead of being tied into a 3mth or 12 mths contract, there are also other's offering BE Wholesale products it's what i would do, and done in hindsight

To go with vivacity do you need to have an active bt line to sign up as i am currently switching away from virgin, i have signed up for talktalk atm with an install date near the end of the month. However have still been looking at other options. With vivacity i cant find a way to get the broadband without putting a bt line in.

Can you please advise.

Thanks

In reply to a post by azzercam:

To go with vivacity do you need to have an active bt line to sign up as i am currently switching away from virgin, i have signed up for talktalk atm with an install date near the end of the month. However have still been looking at other options. With vivacity i cant find a way to get the broadband without putting a bt line in.

Can you please advise.

Thanks

Yes to be able to get ADSL bb from any ISP requires a active bt line, They also do bt lines the install charge is cheaper than bt, and again no long contract as they are monthly too, bt will waive/reduce the standard connect fee but subject to you signing up for 12-18mths calling plan and you i believe cannot get Line rental saver (Reduced line rental £10.00 month 12ths payable in advance ) or you have the post office phone, a connection charge is only normally made if the line has no dial tone, if tone is present no charges should be made usually (source bt retail)

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In reply to a post by azzercam:

To go with vivacity do you need to have an active bt line to sign up as i am currently switching away from virgin, i have signed up for talktalk atm with an install date near the end of the month. However have still been looking at other options. With vivacity i cant find a way to get the broadband without putting a bt line in.

Can you please advise.

Thanks

Yes to be able to get ADSL bb from any ISP requires a active bt line, They also do bt lines their install charge is cheaper than bt, and again no long contract as they are monthly too, bt will waive/reduce the standard connect fee but subject to you signing up for 12-18mths calling plan and you i believe cannot get Line rental saver (Reduced line rental £10.00 month 12ths payable in advance ) on lines that have benefited from a free/reduced (£30) connection fee, You have the post office phone, a connection charge is only normally made if the line has no dial tone, if tone is present no charges should be made usually (source bt retail)

Info on connection fee,new line

BT LRS T&C'S

BTW there are also several other telephony providers who can re-connect/activate install l BT lines ,and offer cheaper than bt calls too some with min term contract others no min term

In reply to a post by azzercam:

To go with vivacity do you need to have an active bt line to sign up as i am currently switching away from virgin, i have signed up for talktalk atm with an install date near the end of the month. However have still been looking at other options. With vivacity i cant find a way to get the broadband without putting a bt line in.

Can you please advise.

Thanks

Even with talktalk which is Fully unbundled you will still need a working telephone line to be able to receive the adsl signal the only difference being that you will pay talk talk line rental and for calls made instead of bt the physical copper pair belongs to bt openreach
The main requirement for any ADSL service other than VM CABLE is the need for a working /active bt line

thank you for clearing that up, i signed up for talktalk phone and broadand so they were fitting a new phone line for me. but after reading the bad reviews online and on these forums i started to look elsewhere. i have just phoned the post office and they are able to set up a new telephone line (paying them the line rental) for free with also a £50 credit to the account (£25 in month 4 and the same in month 7) there is only a monthly contract so if you cancel before the 4th/7th month you dont recieve the credits. this would give me free eve and w/end calls, free calls to mobiles on weekends and all for 12.25 per month... if i was to go with this offer then would i have to wait for the line to be installed to order the broadband from vivacity and would it work with a post office phone line, or could i arrange for the broadband to commence on the day the line is installed and activated?

sorry for so many questions but im completely new to changing isp's as i moved out of my parents house and went straight to virgin.

thanks again

What has been implied but not said is that a "BT Line" does not mean it has to be from BT (Retail), which is what many people think.

The Post Office phone line is a BT Line. A TalkTalk line is not a "BT Line". Both however are provided by BT Openreach, but under different sorts of contract between them and Openreach. Simples - not !

A BT (Retail) line is a BT Line no different from the Post Office.

Vivaciti, cited just because they have been mentioned in the thread, depending on the broadband product required by the customer can offer either a "BT Line" or a TalkTalk line, or just let the broadband service run on a BT Line from any supplier such as BT (Retail), the Post Office, Plusnet, Primus etc., etc.

Sky also have both ways of providing the phone. If the customer takes Sky LLU Broadband then they have to take a Sky LLU phone. This is the same arrangement as TalkTalk. However if the customer just wants a phone line and not Sky broadband, then they provide a "BT Line" that allows most other ISPs to use it for their broadband.

That is all a bit confusing. It may help if people stuck trying to understand it have a read of this page about Full LLU and Partial LLU, (MPF/SMPF). It isn't a simple subject, but a key factor is whether the broadband is Sky LLU or TalkTalk LLU or a product sold by another ISP and using TalkTalk Wholesale. None of these are "BT Lines", nearly all others are. But some line providers only allow their own broadband on it, such as O2/Be.

Threadjacked

In reply to a post by azzercam:

i have just phoned the post office and they are able to set up a new telephone line (paying them the line rental) for free with also a £50 credit to the account (£25 in month 4 and the same in month 7) there is only a monthly contract so if you cancel before the 4th/7th month you dont recieve the credits. this would give me free eve and w/end calls, free calls to mobiles on weekends and all for 12.25 per month... if i was to go with this offer then would i have to wait for the line to be installed to order the broadband from vivacity and would it work with a post office phone line, or could i arrange for the broadband to commence on the day the line is installed and activated?

Possibly you can arrange it, possibly not. There is a method but not all phone providers know about it, and not all broadband suppliers can handle even if the phone provider can.

It is called a Simultaneous Provide, (SIM). You have to tell the line provider when you order that you want a Linked Order Number, (LORN), so that you can then order a simultaneous provide of the broadband.

When they order the line for you from Openreach they have to ask for one of these LORNs, which have a different format from a normal one. They should then tell you the order number.

If you have such an order number, then you give that to your chosen broadband supplier at the time you order from them. They then supply that to Openreach along with their order for the broadband for you.

Openreach recognise on each order that there should be a corresponding one for the other service, and when they are able to match them up they arrange to install both on the same day.

As I said, you might have trouble finding suppliers who are able to use this system - many can't/don't. Even when it is used, things can go wrong. Different Openreach engineers will be involved for the two services, and if one is held up or diverted to an emergency on the arranged day, ....

In reply to a post by pspr33:

Threadjacked

Dunno why he did that - he already had a thread of his own and he's already signed up to TalkTalk.

In reply to a post by pspr33:

Threadjacked

True .

Have a look at the top two on this vivaciti page. Based on Be Wholesale.

i am sorry but i didnt mean to threadjack but the info i have asked for will also be useful to the OP, and yes as i mentioned above i have signed up to talktalk already but as i said above i have been reading all the reviews and forums and they seem to be as bad as people say. i have not had it installed yet so i can still cancel my order and i was trying to find the best alternative.

In reply to a post by azzercam:

i am sorry but i didnt mean to threadjack but the info i have asked for will also be useful to the OP, and yes as i mentioned above i have signed up to talktalk already but as i said above i have been reading all the reviews and forums and they seem to be as bad as people say. i have not had it installed yet so i can still cancel my order and i was trying to find the best alternative.

A word of advise if you are thinking choosing tt was a mistake and are debating canceling it before they connect you, then don't leave doing that too long, as once bt openreach have been given the order sometimes it cannot be stopped, so you could end up with both no phone or bb until the line is back to bt wholesale again ,

The op wanted a service suitable for online gaming and a throttled, shaped ,and also wanted a decent level of support(uk based if possible) so IMO a be wholesale service best fits that bill,and the resold lite or unlimited products are not outside the op's budget , they have gone with the P.O for the line install and presumably line rental &calls,
but they could if they so they wished , in the future make further savings on those charges, by switching telephony providers for line rent and/or calls

hi thank you for the advice, in the talktalk welcome pack that they sent me through it says i can cancel the order up to 24 hours before the install date. so does what your saying mean that if i cancel with talktalk i may not be able to get another line installed?

In reply to a post by azzercam:

hi thank you for the advice, in the talktalk welcome pack that they sent me through it says i can cancel the order up to 24 hours before the install date. so does what your saying mean that if i cancel with talktalk i may not be able to get another line installed?

Having a line Fully unbundled talktalk or sky, will not stop you getting other lines installed as well as the current one, but once the line has been connected to tt, then as long as this is the case no other ISP would be able to provide you with BB on that line as it is no longer treated as an active bt line, you would first have to get the line back on to the bt wholesale system AKA a return to donor order, then once the bt database has been updated you can then order a adsl service from another isp, , there is no MAC code requirements for joining or leaving these two isp's worst senario is that the line ends up in limbo not connected to any provider , so if your having second thoughts don't delay

So as long as icancel before its installed i can get post office to install a line then get bb from vivacity?

In reply to a post by azzercam:

So as long as icancel before its installed i can get post office to install a line then get bb from vivacity?

As long as the cancellation goes through without any hiccups, yes otherwise the line would have to be transfered over to bt, or get a bt line installed by any of the many providers that do new line installs
But as already covered once the line is installed you will have to wait for the bt database to catch up and list your number/line before the ISP is able to place an order to bt openreach to provision the DSL service on the line,

Cancelling a full LLU service from any provider is always hit and miss.

24 hours if the legal minimum, but to be safe needs to be cancelled five days before. Otherwise job will already be with Openreach, and getting that back and with no changes to the line can prove problematic.

Ordering broadband is very different to changing your mind about the type of biscuits to buy when stood at the supermarket checkout.