Migrating from Plusnet ADSL - avoiding cessation fee

My plusnet ADSL BB+Phone contract is near to it end and I rang plusnet to request a MAC.

Now, I am aware that Plusnet charge a cessation fee of £30 if you switch to another provider without a MAC. IMO, this clause should mainly apply to folks who switch from ADSL to FTTC or Virgin Media.

AFAIK, Plusnet are the ONLY provider in the market at present who charge this fee. Plusnet don't agree with this however. I could not find ANY other provider which charges this fee when the customer leaves(even BT don't).

The snag is that even if I moved to another ADSL provider, and the new provider decides to put me on their LLU - then Plusnet will charge me the £30 fee as the new provider will not use the MAC.

A couple of years ago, when the plusnet cessation fee was £25, it was also mentioned that 'LLU migrations excluded' from this charge.

But, now plusnet have removed the condition 'LLU migrations excluded', which means that literally there is no way out of plusnet without paying this charge.

Most new providers, I have spoken to will put me on their LLU - Sky, TalkTalk etc. and will not need a MAC even for ADSL broadband.

I am really struggling to find another ADSL provider which will accept a MAC and I can 'safely' migrate to them without plusnet.

Cease charges are NOT raised by their wholesaler where the appropriate migration path is used.

So for SMPF that means a MAC
So for MPF LLU (full LLU) it means a MPF Migrate Order

I don't recall the last time someone moaned about a cease charge on leaving PlusNet.

All providers will charge a cease fee, a bb cease is where you decide not to migrate to another ISP And just stop the service
Sky and TT are mainly full LLU so both phone and adsl/fttc if they have their equipment in the exchange ,you phone line will be physically moved from BTwholesales kit, to theirs,

Full LLU( FMPF ) does,'t require a MAC code, if fact the scope of the MAC system doesn't cover FMPF migrations, hence why they tell you no MAC needed

If you are migrating to another supplier there should be no cease charge raise by BT or plusnet, How ever it is best to request the MAC code from plusnet, this then should inform them that you indend to migrate to a new ISP ,

You can then give that to your new provider,

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 02-Apr-14 16:02:17)

In reply to a post by koolk:

Now, I am aware that Plusnet charge a cessation fee of £30 if you switch to another provider without a MAC.

Not true! What's wrong with:

In reference to www.plus.net/info2/legal/index.html:

18.A broadband cease charge, as set out in the price guide, is payable if you cease your Plusnet service and do not request and use a migration access code (MAC), OR another recognised transfer process to move to another service provider.

A migration to Full LLU counts as a recognised transfer process.

Still wise to request a MAC from PN, even if your new ISP doesn't use it.

The Plusnet web site says:

"Cessation charges don't apply if:

- You use a MAC key to switch to another provider (this is called a migration)
- you're a Plusnet Essentials or Plusnet Unlimited customer without a contract"

So once your contract ends you should be able to cease the line without a charge if that is what your really want.

Regardless of what happens, koolk, you should log time, date and content of every call. I hope you won't need this record but I have been very glad of it when things go wrong in these paperless transactions.

Just for my own interest, do Plusnet (owned by BT) have their own equipment in the exchanges, or do they share with BT? What happens if someone moves from PN to BT or vice versa?

PlusNet buys a wholesale service from BT Wholesale.
BT Retail buy a wholesale service from BT Wholesale.

Each provider can specify various parameters like how many hand over capacity they are willing to pay for. So in terms of modem connection speed the two will be the same, but performance due to provider network differences will create variations.

To move from BT to PN, or PN to BT it is the standard MAC process.

Plusnet use the same BTWholesale kit in the exxchange as BT retail and other ISP's that supplly BT based bb & WLR3 phone services

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

The Plusnet web site says:

"Cessation charges don't apply if:

- You use a MAC key to switch to another provider (this is called a migration)
- you're a Plusnet Essentials or Plusnet Unlimited customer without a contract"

So once your contract ends you should be able to cease the line without a charge if that is what your really want.

My contract ended a couple of days ago. I did not use the MAC provided by Plusnet yet as I could not find any new ADSL provider who will need a MAC (except BT who are very expensive).

I contacted plusnet again about the £30 cessation charge and it seems that they are hell bent on taking it from me. I quoted the exact terms & conditions from their website and here is their reply:

Thank you for getting in touch.

I can confirm that switching to an LLU provider with incur a cessation charge as you will be switching away from the BT network and therefore our line will need to be ceased to allow your new provider to take on the line.

Even though you are out of contract this charge will still stand, as this only does not stand on customers who take our non-contracted option, which is charged at £2.50 more per month, thereby nullifying the £30 cessation charge. Apologies for any inconvenience this may cause.

I hope this clears things up for you. There is no need to reply to this ticket if the matter is resolved. This ticket will remain open with you for the next 14 days. After which It will automatically close leaving a full copy of the notes on your account.

However, if you feel the matter needs further investigation do not hesitate to get back in touch online at http://portal.plus.net/wizard/?p=search if we can be of any further assistance.

Kind regards,
--

I really need help with finding out ADSL providers which will use BT line and will therefore require a MAC to switch me from Plusnet.

After Plusnet's recent reply - the LLU providers are out of question.

An obvious answer is to switch to BT themselves, but they are very expensive.


One last thing - Does Tesco Broadband use BT line or their own LLU?

Cease charges are still out there to be passed on to end users e.g. BT > http://ipsite.org/1wss

The BT page does not explicitly say that moving to another LLU provider will incur the cessation charge. IMO, it's only plusnet who have twisted the rules and and trying to fob off their customers.

Be very careful, before taking a good looking deal with Plusnet, as there WILL be no way out from paying this cease charge when you try to leave them.

You aren't wanting to cease broadband on your line are you?
You are wanting to migrate to another ISP using a MAC code supplied by Plusnet, if you use a MAC code and migrate away you shouldn't be charged especially as it's not made clear in their terms and conditions (well I can't find anything crystal clear with regard to migrating to LLU providers as opposed to ISPs using the BTw network)

If you are thinking of moving to BT checkout the Topcashback site now.

If OP wants to move to a MFP provider such as TT or Sky then the MAC code isn't required /used, But i would imagine the loosing ISP would be made aware of this,
Even if they don't get told, if BTopenreach don't raise a cease charge they shouldn't be charging if they ain't charged , and for the sake of £30.00 or whatever the wholesale cost is to ISP's it wouldn't be worth the hassle to them

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

(well I can't find anything crystal clear with regard to migrating to LLU providers as opposed to ISPs using the BTw network)

Won't this do?

In reference to www.plus.net/info2/legal/index.html#broadband_family:

18. If you choose to end your agreement for the service and you do not use a recognised migration process you will be subject to the broadband cease charge as shown in

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

(well I can't find anything crystal clear with regard to migrating to LLU providers as opposed to ISPs using the BTw network)

Won't this do?

In reference to www.plus.net/info2/legal/index.html#broadband_family:

18. If you choose to end your agreement for the service and you do not use a recognised migration process you will be subject to the broadband cease charge as shown in

So even if the OP gets a MAC code from PN and uses it and moves to an ISP with LLU provision in the exchange this isn't a recognised migration process?
I think that "If you choose to end your agreement for the service and you do not use a recognised migration process" refers to cancelling broadband on the line altogether?

Do you mean Full LLU (MPF) or SMPF (shared LLU) the distinction is important if people are wanting to resolve the argument.

My position is simple and I believe Ofcom has similar interpretation, move from SMPF to MPF using a MPF Migrate Order (by gaining provider) should not trigger a cease fee at the wholesale level.

Now some retailers may add their own rules on top of this, but would risk investigation by Ofcom if their rule was acting to distort the market or just plain unfair.

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

I think that "If you choose to end your agreement for the service and you do not use a recognised migration process" refers to cancelling broadband on the line altogether?

It does indeed! But the point I'm making is the converse. As this is only reference to a cease charge, it implies that as long as you use a 'recognised migration process' there will be no cease charge to pay.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

I think that "If you choose to end your agreement for the service and you do not use a recognised migration process" refers to cancelling broadband on the line altogether?

It does indeed! But the point I'm making is the converse. As this is only reference to a cease charge, it implies that as long as you use a 'recognised migration process' there will be no cease charge to pay.

Yes I agree with that

In reply to a post by koolk:

The BT page does not explicitly say that moving to another LLU provider will incur the cessation charge. IMO, it's only plusnet who have twisted the rules and and trying to fob off their customers.

Be very careful, before taking a good looking deal with Plusnet, as there WILL be no way out from paying this cease charge when you try to leave them.

There is a cease charge when moving your broadband connection from the BT network to a non BT network i.e. LLU provider.

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProduc...

EE/Orange is a BT network provider, but I only advise if you are connected to a market 3 exchange.

https://broadband.ee.co.uk/home.do

In reply to a post by E7er:

There is a cease charge when moving your broadband connection from the BT network to a non BT network i.e. LLU provider.

Did you overlook or misinterpret this?

In reference to www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/dynamicmodules/page...:

This charge will be raised should you :-

2. Switch to another Broadband provider without following another recognised transfer process, when it applies.

Migrating to Full LLU counts as a recognised transfer process; migrating to Partial LLU is covered by the MAC process.

I only advise if you are connected to a market 3 exchange

Why not Market 2 as well? They are all in EE area whereas there are 12 Market 3s that aren't.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 13-Apr-14 15:12:14)

So in the case of the OP migrating from Plusnet using a MAC to a MPF LLU provision ISP Plusnet are entitled to charge what they regard as a cessation fee but if the OP moved using a MAC to a SPMF LLU provision ISP then there should not be a charge levied by Plusnet?

What is the name of your exchange?
You might be able to get SMPF (shared metallic pathway) where a reseller could provide a BB LLU package and you could leave the line rental +calls with PN (you would need to check this is OK with PN as at one time if you didn't have a BB package with them they were not keen on providing LR+calls only) or you could move the LR+calls to another provider.
This is probably best done once you are out of contract.

I think you are getting the run around from different quarters, let me start, PlusNet are not allowed to charge a cease fee (or any fee come to that) for using a MAC to migrate to another provider, its against Ofcom GC22, there is no ifs or buts on that.
If you are in contract there may be other things that can apply but that's not the case with you as you are out of contract.
If you migrate to a full LLU service (MPF) using the correct published migration procedures (you can get these from the openreach web site) then they should also not be charging a fee, but as Andrew has said sometimes if the correct procedure has not been followed then a fee "could" apply.

The next bit is odd, as most providers will offer either a wholesale type connection or a partial LLU (that does require a MAC) it is "Only" the full LLU providers (Talk Talk, Sky to name a couple) that will put you on full LLU (MPF) of course unless you request a full LLU package.
You don't only have BT Retail as an option at all.

I think you should tell them that is not what their web site says. I expect to cease my line in a few months. It will be interesting to see how I get on.