looking for a new isp for fibre 80/20

Just moved house and had to wait 5 and a bit weeks for bt to get openreach out , didnt have much help from bt at all and homes along my road who only moved there phone line 2 weeks ago were wired in on monday .

Looking for fibre 80/20 as im a stone throw from the cabnet plus a new phone line dont realy want to be paying a bomb also cheap or free conection .
Needs to be unlimited and NO throttling at peek times ..

cheers

If you've had Openreach out, what have they done? Installed a dead line? Or is it a live phone line and you want a second with broadband on?

Hi Roberto openreach conected the phone line also adsl ( speedtest shows 16mb dl )
when i put in for the move there was a data base error so fibre wasnt showing 3 weeks ago it showed on the checker but BT wouldnt let me change the order .....

Ive looked on plusnets site all looks good part from £50 for conection as im in A area

Edited by deleted (Fri 27-Mar-15 17:21:13)

Zen install is only £30, but the monthly subs are more expensive, and a 12mth min term
But paying for a managed install by an BTOR engineer isn't to bad when you think about it, modem and faceplate plus an option of a dedicated VDSL extension , as well as performing checks that it's all working as it should (in theory )
What i find somewhat a bad thing is plusnet want a 18mth min term as well as £50 install/activation fee

Basically the install fee and 12mths or more min term contracts are ok for those who haven't already got a working FTTC product, but for those looking to migrate the activation fees are way above what the CP's are being charged so they aren't proportionate and the contract terms are also behind the times still insisting . 12 or 18 mths for fttc to fttc migrations ,
AAISP would appear to be the only ISP who charges less for migration fees propotianate to their costs, and they offer a shorter 6 mths contract too So to the rest of the isp industry it can be done

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 27-Mar-15 19:58:25)

?
That sounds messy. Also you said you wanted a new phone line. Do you, or are you going to use the one you have the ADSL on?

If you are keeping the phone line with BT then you get a higher price anyway from Plusnet. £29.99pm (on a Market 1/A exchange)instead of the £27.49 banner price. The £50 is the installation charge for not having Plusnet phone and applies whatever the area.

Anything other than BT Retail Infinity and you will get an early termination charge for the BT ADSLx. Did you know about that?

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 27-Mar-15 17:47:11)

Hang on a moment here chaps. Surely the OP has a BT voice line and perhaps an ADSL broadband service from BT or maybe someone else.. Now if there are suggestions about this, that an another ISP, would there not be at least a 12 month contract on the voice line service with BT? Same with the broadband service whoever it came from.

This means you are a bit snookered to choose another ISP for a Fibre service because usually you have to have the voice line service with that ISP. You are therefore stuck with BT Infinity for Fibre for the time being, but you would have the choice of a residential or business service without invoking penalties.

BT is a Marmite company, you either love or loath them. You've already been disappointed with them by not changing your order in mid stream from ADSL to FTTC; could be your frustrations with that organisation are only just beginning!

I spoke to bt today i have 14 days from today to change my mind with the adsl and phone line as both are classed as new contracts due to me moving home 3 weeks ago ...

Roberto with plusnet its £50 isnt it even with there phone line as im on band A area . if i was band b or c it would be free . might right plusnet .

Ah, that's good.

Not according to the full price list. That takes a bit of understanding, but you need Tables 1.3 and 1.6.

Market 1 (as was) is "Outside low cost areas", but that's only mentioned for the ongoing monthly charge. Which makes sense, as the Openreach installation charge is not area-dependent.

What I don't know is exactly how Plusnet are mapping the new Market A and B classifications onto the old 1,2,3 ones. It isn't a straight changeover, as Ofcom have re-graded many. There isn't a Band C.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 27-Mar-15 18:27:25)

In reply to a post by hotdogz:

I spoke to bt today i have 14 days from today to change my mind with the adsl and phone line as both are classed as new contracts due to me moving home 3 weeks ago ...

Roberto with plusnet its £50 isnt it even with there phone line as im on band A area . if i was band b or c it would be free . might right plusnet .

Gosh, I'm surprised you can walk away from what you have now without some kind of expense, but if you are suggesting you can be effectively back to square one, then all options are available to you for a choice of supplier. I know who I would choose but you seem to be focusing on price and yet want a quality service. Is there such a combination? I don't think so.

just filled out the details on plus nets site and it says the following .

Evenings & Weekends
£2.00a month
Anytime
£5.00a month
Anytime International 300
£7.00a month
Include 100 Anytime minutes to UK mobiles
Only £3 a month extra
Add Mobile Minutes
Mobile Minutes

Include 100 Anytime minutes to UK mobiles on top of your chosen call plan.
Include 100 Anytime minutes to UK mobiles
£3.00a month
Voicemail options
No Voicemail
£0.00 a month
1571 Voicemail
£0.00a month
Voicemail Extra (Call Minder)
£3.00a month
Call features in bundle
Your order All prices include VAT

Today's payment
Unlimited broadband (First month)
£9.99
Promotional discount (for 12 months)
- £9.99
Plusnet Protect powered by McAfee (First month)
Included
Router P&P
£5.99
Line rental (First month)
£15.95
Installation charge
£49.99
Anytime (First Month)
£5.00
Voicemail (1571) (First month)
Included

Today's total
£76.93

That's ADSLx+phone, not FTTC+phone, and in a low cost area.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's ADSLx+phone, not FTTC+phone, and in a low cost area.

sorry i clicked wrong one . heres the fibre one .



Today's payment
Unlimited Fibre Broadband
£14.99
Promotional discount (for 6 months)
- £11.24
Router P&P
£5.99
Line rental (First month)
£15.95
Installation charge
£49.99
Anytime (First Month)
£5.00
Voicemail (1571) (First month)
Included

Today's total
£80.68

still a 49.99 charge

That's the 38/19.5 not the 78/19.5, again in a low-cost area. You said much earlier it was Market A. Which exchange is it please?

That £49.99 is nothing to do with the broadband, it is for the installation of a brand new phone line. A BT transfer which is what you would be doing is free. See Table 2.1.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

That's the 38/19.5 not the 78/19.5, again in a low-cost area. You said much earlier it was Market A. Which exchange is it please?

That £49.99 is nothing to do with the broadband, it is for the installation of a brand new phone line. A BT transfer which is what you would be doing is free. See Table 2.1.

Church Stretton WNCST Shropshire West Midlands

Given the OP's position re not in low cost area, Zen would become a better choice for the FTTC 80/20 £30 install fee 12mth min term , £35.40 per month ,or £30 per month with line rental), or for cheapness on line rental/calls only post office or one of the other CP's that offer line discounted line rental deals or failing that pay BT a year in advance and get line rental saver with free weekend calls 12mth min term

But which ever choice made there isn't a lot in price difference

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 27-Mar-15 19:55:55)

AIUI you don't get the £11.nn line rental on Zen FTTC, it's the full whack. I also want to check a bit more about the exchange, I believe I have the Ofcom re-rating of exchanges to A/B list, but Plusnet may not adhere strictly to that.

I agree here are several alternatives, but my dinner is nearly cooked. Will look later.

Yeah it does say on the web page that the line rental increases if with FTTC , i can't see why this is myself other than that they want £35,40 or so for FTTC 80/20 regardless ?
But as the price differential isn't that big ,from a quality of service, no shaping / prioritisation , or use secondry IP profiles typically set lower than the BTW IP profile , With Zen there is also the posibilty if they have a llu presence in the exchange the BTW ip profile would not be used , so a even higher throughput would be possible just as SKY FTTC and dare i say it TT

Edited by tommy45 (Fri 27-Mar-15 21:03:38)

You can't eliminate TCP/IP overheads, which is basically what the FTTC version of the IP Profile covers. The Plusnet "Current line speed" is the IP Profile rounded down to the 100kbps so not really significant. Plus all ISPs are supposed to limit the data sent down the link to far enough below the sync speed to avoid packet loss at the MSAN. That's what these systems are doing.

At least one of the niche; quality; ISPs does have a similar system to the Plusnet "Current line speed". At the moment I can't remember which, but I should have a link somewhere. They just don't generally publicise it.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Yeah it does say on the web page that the line rental increases if with FTTC , i can't see why this is myself other than that they want £35,40 or so for FTTC 80/20 regardless ?
But as the price differential isn't that big ,from a quality of service, no shaping / prioritisation , or use secondry IP profiles typically set lower than the BTW IP profile , With Zen there is also the posibilty if they have a llu presence in the exchange the BTW ip profile would not be used , so a even higher throughput would be possible just as SKY FTTC and dare i say it TT

Just for completeness the Zen business tariff is:
Line Rental Plus + Anytime Calls
Monthly service charge £23.50 including VAT [Line rental + anytime calls 01/02/03/0870/0845]
Unlimited ZEN Fibre 2 Broadband
Monthly charge: £30 including VAT
That's £53.50 a month. An equivalent Business TalkTalk Service would be £48 a month. What little extras do you get with Zen for the extra £5.50 over TTs pricing? Not a lot really and I question whether Zen will be around much longer.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You can't eliminate TCP/IP overheads, which is basically what the FTTC version of the IP Profile covers. The Plusnet "Current line speed" is the IP Profile rounded down to the 100kbps so not really significant. Plus all ISPs are supposed to limit the data sent down the link to far enough below the sync speed to avoid packet loss at the MSAN. That's what these systems are doing.

At least one of the niche; quality; ISPs does have a similar system to the Plusnet "Current line speed". At the moment I can't remember which, but I should have a link somewhere. They just don't generally publicise it.

Well that is theory not in reality even more so now that G.INP is being rolled out as it also has new IP profiles ,and Plusnets system restricts throughput by a lot more than 100kbps more like 1-2mbps also there is the prove that BT retail customers are getting a higher throughput that plusnet customers in speedtest results Sky FTTC results appear to be the highest they don't use BTW or there profiling system

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Yeah it does say on the web page that the line rental increases if with FTTC , i can't see why this is myself other than that they want £35,40 or so for FTTC 80/20 regardless ?
But as the price differential isn't that big ,from a quality of service, no shaping / prioritisation , or use secondary IP profiles typically set lower than the BTW IP profile , With Zen there is also the possibility if they have a llu presence in the exchange the BTW ip profile would not be used , so a even higher throughput would be possible just as SKY FTTC and dare i say it TT

Just for completeness the Zen business tariff is:
Line Rental Plus + Anytime Calls
Monthly service charge £23.50 including VAT [Line rental + anytime calls 01/02/03/0870/0845]
Unlimited ZEN Fibre 2 Broadband
Monthly charge: £30 including VAT
That's £53.50 a month. An equivalent Business TalkTalk Service would be £48 a month. What little extras do you get with Zen for the extra £5.50 over TTs pricing? Not a lot really and I question whether Zen will be around much longer.

So what makes you question the future of Zen? We need the smaller ISP's As we need choice away from the pile em high and sell em cheap mass market isp's , less choice can only be a bad thing for the consumer

G.INP is a modification to the Openreach DLM controlling the line sync and stability parameters. Openreach DLM has nothing whatsoever to do with the IP Profile system.

It does indirectly, as my sync is 79999kbps on G.INP but IP profile is 77.35 when on Fast path (No G.inp) it was 77.42 or 77.44 depending on which modem i used ECI was 77.44, Huawei 77.42 , sync of 79987kbps, Plusnet profile was 77.4 ,
But with G.INP was 77.2 so a bit lower than the 200kbps they should round it down to, hence capping max throughput by 1-2mbps, the 77.2 plusnet profile is a result of G.inp & how the BTW IP profile interpret it, is being applied to circuits that can sync at the full rate

I've just started on talktalk business it seems pretty good so far.

i've had BT infinity and Sky Fibre pro in the past

both have been decent also.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

Yeah it does say on the web page that the line rental increases if with FTTC , i can't see why this is myself other than that they want £35,40 or so for FTTC 80/20 regardless ?
But as the price differential isn't that big ,from a quality of service, no shaping / prioritisation , or use secondary IP profiles typically set lower than the BTW IP profile , With Zen there is also the possibility if they have a llu presence in the exchange the BTW ip profile would not be used , so a even higher throughput would be possible just as SKY FTTC and dare i say it TT

Just for completeness the Zen business tariff is:
Line Rental Plus + Anytime Calls
Monthly service charge £23.50 including VAT [Line rental + anytime calls 01/02/03/0870/0845]
Unlimited ZEN Fibre 2 Broadband
Monthly charge: £30 including VAT
That's £53.50 a month. An equivalent Business TalkTalk Service would be £48 a month. What little extras do you get with Zen for the extra £5.50 over TTs pricing? Not a lot really and I question whether Zen will be around much longer.

So what makes you question the future of Zen? We need the smaller ISP's As we need choice away from the pile em high and sell em cheap mass market isp's , less choice can only be a bad thing for the consumer

By observation on these forums where almost everyone focuses on price rather than the differences that a little extra sum can make to your internet experience. I personally morn the passing of Nildram and subsequently finding my account being handled by a number of operators, each worse than the one before.

All very true what you say, but as consumers we have no say if your niche ISP becomes a target by a larger ISP to be swallowed up into their dynasty.

cheers all , I will wait for my call from the case worker from BT on monday morning .
She said last week due to the time scale its took and the no shows from openreach she will sort out a discount on my line and fiber when i swap to it . I will have to see what price she says also she said about a gift card to say sorry.
She still needs to sort out my bill and take of £30 for the vodafone top ups i used on my dongle .

If the price is good i will stay with bt if not i will ring plusnet and zen to see what they can offer.

just a shame adsl24 closed there doors i was with them for yrs and never had a problem untill they sold out to comms were it went downhill fast ..

The resession hasn't helped with that amongst other factors

plusnet is showing a new price today the £49.99 has gone . must be because bt have signed off what i had done yesterday .


Today's payment
Unlimited Fibre Extra Broadband
£19.99
Promotional discount (for 6 months)
- £11.24
Plusnet Protect powered by McAfee (First month)
Included
Router P&P
£5.99
Line rental (First month)
£15.95
Anytime (First Month)
£5.00
Voicemail (1571) (First month)
Included

Today's total
£35.69

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Just for completeness the Zen business tariff is:
Line Rental Plus + Anytime Calls
Monthly service charge £23.50 including VAT [Line rental + anytime calls 01/02/03/0870/0845]
Unlimited ZEN Fibre 2 Broadband
Monthly charge: £30 including VAT
That's £53.50 a month. An equivalent Business TalkTalk Service would be £48 a month. What little extras do you get with Zen for the extra £5.50 over TTs pricing? Not a lot really and I question whether Zen will be around much longer.

Can't speak for business users but Zen seem to do fairly well with awards and always seem to get a lot of mentions when people are looking for a decent residential ISP - although I think people are a little delusional if they think Zen are massively better than everybody else.

Edited by Spud2003 (Sat 28-Mar-15 11:36:51)

..... less choice can only be a bad thing for the consumer

Possibly a lot of the mass market consumers treat BB as they do electricity and gas etc, switch it on and expect it to work as they're not realy interested in how things work in a technical way only that they do when they want to use them, consequently they look for cheap deals and have no loyalty so will switch for a better /cheap deal the next time, therefore perhaps Zen,IDNet, AAISP are not for them due to the extra costs involved.

A ADSL service from Exchange to the EU 's modem or VDSL2 service from the FTTC to Active NTE (modem) will work the same regardless of which ISP is chosen, in the way of sync speeds, But it's things like peering policies and routing, and if the ISP uses any kind of traffic shaping /throttling rate limiting etc or not, then theres stuff like censorship and web blocking /filtering by the isp, as well as how good the customer service and tech support are should you ever need to connect them,

Some that i have spoken too regardless of ISP think they know how things work but don't really have a clue, they give out incorrect info ect ,Instead of just passing the call to someone who does know this doesn't bode well,
with me, regardless of what price I'm paying ,
Prices shouldn't become so low that they cannot afford to pay for customer facing knowledgeable support staff ,

In reply to a post by hotdogz:

plusnet is showing a new price today the £49.99 has gone . must be because bt have signed off what i had done yesterday .


Today's payment
Unlimited Fibre Extra Broadband
£19.99
Promotional discount (for 6 months)
- £11.24
Plusnet Protect powered by McAfee (First month)
Included
Router P&P
£5.99
Line rental (First month)
£15.95
Anytime (First Month)
£5.00
Voicemail (1571) (First month)
Included

Today's total
£35.69

Well when i checked the web site broadband only deals it is still there if you are connected to what used to be known as a market 1 exchange (out of area) the price for the 80/ 20 (fibre extra)would be £29.99 a month or £22.49 per month on a market 3 exchange
You have quotedprice for the unlimted fibre 40/20 product You would also bee quoting the price if you wanted plusnet as your telephone provider , there never to my knowlage has been an install charge if you buy both services

Edited by tommy45 (Sat 28-Mar-15 15:39:12)

After speaking to the person at bt who took on my case im going to stay with bt.
They offered me £30 for the top ups i made for my vodaphone dongle , i owed 76£ for my last bill and they wiped it clean .
Put my order in for fibre 80/20 ( 9 days wait tho ) infinity 2 @ £23 a month plus phone rentail .
also £80 free sainsburys card .

sounds like a fair deal to me .