Post Office can't improve my 0.48mbps, where now?

Having put up with the hopeless Post Office Broadband for 10 years, their recent price rises prompted me to actually question the value of service I receive. Having done their checks they have confirmed they can't improve the 0.48mbps I receive at peak times. I never get more than 1mbps.

I have to leave but I am terrified that I will just swop one bad ISP for another. I live in a rural area, but very near to the telephone exchange. I see it can run ADSL Max, but nothing more. Checking on this website it appears 2 neighbours receive in the region of 6mbps, which I would just love.

How do I select my next ISP, when all seem to have bad reviews, and always use the caveat of 'up to 8mbps'?

I can post the location of my telephone exchange if it helps?

Two things you can post please

The URL of the results from this checker. That tells us some details about the exchange. Though maybe you have seen that it could still be useful. There may be extra info available to some people here.

Then this checker please. Either upload a screenshot with your phone number or address just above the table blanked out, or copy and paste that line edited the same way and the contents of the table. Don't worry too much about the horizontal formatting but if there's lots of blank lines it would help if you take those out .

The Post Office are notoriously bad for this... You do right to move on

The fact is that, if you change nothing, you will get the same service over the same telephone line from every ISP, unless you can switch to someone like Virgin Media or another ISP that don't use BTs network.

If you only get 1mbps maximum ever, then that's probably what your line is synced at. Moving ISP won't change that.

There are 4 possible reasons for your low speed:

1. Your line is long. Just because you're physically near the exchange, does not mean your line does not take a massive diversion on the way. In this case you are screwed.
2. There is a fault - this is where choosing the right ISP can help you.
3. There is something inside or outside your house generating a lot of electrical noise, possibly only intermittently, that has forced your line to a very conservative DLM profile. This may be very difficult to resolve.
4. You have issues with your internal wiring, that are down to you to resolve, changing ISP won't help.

As RobertoS says, we need stats from the places he has linked, but be aware, that there may be more to this than changing ISPs!

The capacity the Post Office have contracted for with TT Business Wholesale is clearly inadequate, as MrSaffron has said he can see from speed test results and as many of us are aware of from numerous complaints on these forums.

Bad enough on a TT LLU exchange, where TT Retail is fine. Dreadful on a non-LLU one where TT Retail was always appalling. Paying BT Wholesale for adequate backhaul/handover didn't fit into their business model, which is why they stopped selling it.

We need the data I asked for to see which of those cases applies, as it makes a difference to what we can recommend.

Hello

Wow, thanks for all your really useful tips. I thought there would be more to this than just swopping one ISP for another.

Here's the broadband checker info copy and pasted...

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Telephone Number 01494 on Exchange THE LEE
ADSL Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Range(Mbps)
Availability Date
Left in Jumper

ADSL Max Up to 8 -- 7 to 8 Available -- --
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available -- --
For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (VDSL or G.fast) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.
This line is on a Market A Exchange.
Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.
The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2014.
If the End User wishes to migrate from their current Broadband supplier they will need to contact the Broadband supplier they want to take service from to arrange for the service to be migrated.

Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number, NAD, UPRN or Access Line ID (ALID) check

And the URL for the samknows website is...

https://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SMTL

Thank you in advance for any help you can give. It'll be great for your knowledgable input because believe me to a layman this stuff is really complicated and confusing!

Hi, some further info in relation to Nemeth 782's points...

There are 4 possible reasons for your low speed:

1. Your line is long. Just because you're physically near the exchange, does not mean your line does not take a massive diversion on the way. In this case you are screwed.

I think the line is long. The wiring from the exchange to the houses is overground from pole to pole in a very messy haphazard looking way, so even though I am probably little more than 100m from the exchange the cabling is far longer.

2. There is a fault - this is where choosing the right ISP can help you.

That's why I contacted the Post Office and was shocked when they did absolutely nothing to help discover if there is a fault. They just said that's it and if you want to leave then off you go!

3. There is something inside or outside your house generating a lot of electrical noise, possibly only intermittently, that has forced your line to a very conservative DLM profile. This may be very difficult to resolve.

The modem used to be connected to a phone line extension and stored in a media centre surrounded by the television, phone, blue ray, games machines etc! Thinking this all was the reason for my slow speeds, I disconnected the modem and moved it upstairs and connected it to the BT master socket.

Interestingly when I moved it to the master socket and away from interference it recorded a huge increase in speed. I did a speed test and it shot up to something like 3 Mbps. I thought I'd cracked it, but by the next time I'd logged on the speed was back sub 1mbps and no better than before.

I don't know what a conservative DLM profile is, or how it's caused. But I wonder if I have one! My wife used to insist on switching the modem/router off every night so as not to fry the children's brains with wifi. I have read this can cause the ISP to reduce your speed. So I bought an airport express and plugged it in to the modem. So now the modem is left on permanently, and she can turn the wifi off independently.

Furthermore, the modem is an older Belkin modem/router. It's about 10 years old, but it's rated to 54 Mbps and an ADSL +2 modem so I didn't think that would be the cause of the slow speed.

4. You have issues with your internal wiring, that are down to you to resolve, changing ISP won't help.

The phone line is attached to an upstairs wall and the BT master socket is immediately on the other side of the wall, so the internal wiring between the two is a matter of inches, and the modem is now connected to that. So I don't think it is the internal wiring?

Thank you so much for all of those pointers, I hadn't realised all of the potential variables I need to explore.

A few very useful things that would help establish just how fast your line is capable of running. Your

1) an stats from your current modem/router, especially those mentioning attenuation, noise margin, and snyc speed in both upstream and downstream directions (terminology may vary). Virtually all modem/routers have a page on the administration screen with this data. Often with names like WAN diagnostics or similar. If you can cut & paste these it helps enormously

2) how is your internal phone wiring organised? If you have a single master socket with no extension it's simple, but if you have multiple extensions (even if they have microfilters) it that can heavily degrade the speed at which your line can run. There are ways to optimise this (some simple, some more complex) and if you have an NTE5 master socket there is a way of testing which eliminates the impact of home-wiring so the basic performance of your line can be characterised.

You might also like to try the BT Wholesale availability checker. As you haven't got a BT line I don't think the number part will work, but there's a postcode and address checker too (not as accurate, but still helpful).

https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s...


Also, in ordering a service, any ISP should give you a speed estimate as part of the code of conduct and not just the "up to" figure that they advertise.

Is that you only extension or are there others? Even if they are unused they can cause a lot of degradation of the signal. (The implication is that there are).

nb. see my other post, but the line stats page off your belkin modem would be extremely useful.

Edited by deleted (Sat 27-Aug-16 11:30:08)

While using the master socket the wiring can still be having an effect, can you check what speed the modem says it connects at when using the test socket?

If the connection speed is better then look at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/sections/radsl.htm... and remove the ring wire which may improve thing once the wiring is all back together.

NOTE: Any improvements in connection speed are not obvious on speed tests when using the IPStream for between a few hours and a few days due to the way the old profile system works, so you need to be looking at the connection speed data from the modem.

If you could post the stats from your router that would help a great deal on what you are connecting at and what could be the cause if noise or just line attenuation.

Hello everyone

Thank you very much for all your really handy information.

Here is the data page from the modem..

Version Info
Firmware Version 6.01.06 (Jun 7 2006 20:25:29)
Boot Version 0.70.2v6
Hardware 01
Serial No. J615387931

LAN Settings
LAN/WLAN MAC removed
00-00-00-00-00-00/
IP address 192.168.2.1
Subnet mask 255.255.255.0
DHCP Server Enabled
DHCP Clients num 5

Internet Settings
ADSL Status Connected
Data Rate Down/Up 8128Kb/448Kb
WAN MAC address removed
Connection Type PPPoA
Wan IP removed
Subnet mask 255.0.0.0
Default gateway removed
DNS Address 78.151.239.1

Features
UPnP Enabled
NAT Enabled
Firewall Enabled
Wireless Disabled

This is the only data page for the modem, everything else seems to be various menus for changing things that I don't understand!

When the modem is connected to the BT master test socket there is no improvement in speed. There is only one extension lead from the master (internally wired) which is connected to the downstairs phone. It has a micro filter on it.

I will do the BT wholesale checker now.

Thanks

Edited by MrSaffron (Sun 28-Aug-16 10:31:03)

Whoaaaa!!!!!

How are you connecting to your router? Your connection is at 8Mbps to the exchange.

Please can you run this speed tester , (ignore all the red instructions this time, just tick you've done them), then make a note of the latency, go to the bottom of the results page, and click Further Diagnostics. It will ask for your phone number and confirmation. (There is a slight chance it won't recognise it, if it was new from the Post Office). If it works, please copy and paste the results of the two text boxes of results, plus the latency from before. We don't need the graphics .

Please delete the four lines starting with WAN IP. They reveal to the world how to attack your connection.

Were those stats taken using the test socket, or just the normal socket in the master faceplate?

Hello

So the connection speed is good?

I've done the BT test. it says the ping latency is 44.25.

On doing the further diagnostics test, it can only give me the download speed. It states the following.

"Your speed test has completed and the results are shown above, however during the test an error occurred while trying to retrieve additional details regarding your service. As a result we are unable to determine if the speed you received during the test is acceptable for your service. Please re-run the test if you require this additional information."

I've run the test twice, and it's given the same result. Intriguing the download speed is super fast at 3.29 mbps. It does occasionally get this high first thing on a Sunday morning I've remembered. Though I am plugged directly into the modem for these tests.

ALSO. Ive tried editing my previous post to remove the WAP ID info as advised, but it says the maximum edit time has expired? is there another way to remove this info?

Thanks for all your help.

Oh yes, forgot to mention.

The original router stats were taken using my iPad connected via wifi to the modem. The modem is plugged into the standard BT master socket, but not via the test socket.

In reply to a post by Lordylord:

ADSL Status Connected
Data Rate Down/Up 8128Kb/448Kb
WAN MAC address 00-11-50-84-1D-3B
Connection Type PPPoA

Yay!

This is the good bit. You don't have ADSL2 or FTTC available to you, there is no LLU on your exchange.

Therefore, your 8 meg sync is as fast as it is getting right now.

However, from what you've said, you're not seeing 8meg!

Given that you can't improve on the sync however, there is no need to worry further about house wiring, faults, noise, etc.

What we need to do now is get you to that sync speed.

The fact that there is no LLU provision at your (tiny!) telephone exchange means that providers that usually use LLU will either not serve you at all, or will put you on their non-preferred network, which tends to be a recipe for slow speeds.

The lack of choice at your exchange means some providers will charge you more per month (e.g. plusnet).

Before we get too far into which ISP though, it's worth at least considering other things.

You say this speedtest was on an iPad via wifi. I'd expect Wifi to get more than 8meg anyway, unless it's an 802.11b router or an 802.11g router with poor signal, but do you have any wired devices you could test?

Your router says 5 devices are attached. Can you account for all 5? Is it possible your neighbor is using your Wifi, or your kids are downloading films/music from bittorrent?

Edited out IP/MAC info

Post edited for you.

The BT Wholesale test did it show your IP Profile, configured throughput setting? This might be limiting the speed tests and will recover to the best figure of 7.15 Mbps if the line is stable.

On balance given the info seen to data a switch to one of the providers that a does work well over the BT Wholesale platform may be better e.g. BT themselves or Plusnet

I would give anything for an 8 Mbps link!

I use an airport express plugged into the Belkin modem/router. The wifi is turned off on the Belkin. I bought the airport express in the hope it would speed things up. It didn't, but also it didn't slow things down either.

The speed is the same whether I use the airport express, or the Belkin as the central router.

The 5 systems showing as linked are all ID'd and are mine. Usually no more than 2 or 3 are connected at the same time.

The wifi is password protected, and I am certain no one else is piggy backing on our network due to the low density housing and demographic of where I live!

Thanks

I have a long post in draft, but was about to put it on hold, then saw the posts following the OP's that weren't here when I started. Which cover some of it.

I put on hold because the old Belkin worries me. First, I think we need a factory reset done, a check for up to date firmware, and an MTU check.

Summary of the rest, the further diagnostics probably failed due to a TT pool number, so I asked If the number was supplied by the Post Office. Then we need a wired test, with a friend popping round with a laptop if the OP hasn't got anything with Ethernet, and finally maybe an alternative modem/router test.

If all that fails, migration preferably to a monthly contract with a decent ISP, until we prove that works.

Our posts overlapped .

You have got an 8Mbps connection. That's what the stats say, That should give you what is called an IP Profile of 7.15Mbps, which is what I wanted to see from those Further Diagnostics. That IP Profile should be delivering over 6Mbps, like your neighbours.

There is nothing seriously wrong with the connection itself.

Oh, and to answer the other question, I can speed test by plugging the computer direct into the modem too.

Those tests are quicker than the wifi, but no more than you'd expect.

It just looks like the Post Office simply haven't bought enough back-haul capacity. If it was simply a matter of peak-time contention you'd see some periods which were good and some which were bad.

Unfortunately there aren't many ISPs who do support your sort of exchange particularly well, and the lack of ADSL2+ will mean it's never going to be great. Among other things, they are on the old 20CN network which has limited capacity. One of ISPs that's closely aligned with BTW might be the best best.

ISPs should give you a speed estimate as part of the code of conduct.

nb. FTTC doesn't suffer from this as the cabinets are not homed to small local exchanges.

?
Are you forgetting he is sync'ed at 8Mbps (on TalkTalk non-LLU) and backhaul rental is to do with the handover from BTW to TT and nothing to do with the local exchange?

Though it is possible there is a VP problem there. Something I know little about but his neighbours don't seem to be suffering.

Won't the connection be IP Stream Connect now, so no longer 20CN ATM to Centrals?

Line is fine based on the stats.

Real simple fix, choose BT or Plusnet as your ISP. Magically you will get 8Mbps.

Get away from PO.

BT is probably your best bet. I've been on an exchange with only up to 8Mbps before like yourself with no LLU provider. I had BT and could stream Netflix in HD on two machines at once on BT with the same sync.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 28-Aug-16 21:48:29)

Hello everyone and thank you so much for your help and advice.

I rebooted the modem and looked for new firmware and it appears to be up to date. It's an old modem, but it should be up to the job given the slow speed I am able to receive.

Having read all your posts, I think the answer must be to go with an ISP closely aligned to BT wholesale. This appears to be BT or plus net?

At least I feel confident that by doing this I stand the best chance of receiving a useable service.

Thank you all again for taking the time to offer your help and advice, it's really helped me know what move to make next.

I'm aware that the line syncs at 8mbps.

As far as backhaul from the the old 20CN exchanges is concerned (all of which will be rural by now), then they are limited by the 20CN capacity and they do often appear to suffer from congestion at peak times. However, what is seen under those circumstances is erratic performance with slowdowns during peak periods (and some difference between single- and multi-threaded performance). This appears to be an absolute limit on throughput which to me points to a bottleneck in the backhaul. That could easily be whatever bandwidth that is set aside and may well be whatever bandwidth has been reserved/paid for to the handoff with TalkTalk

If the neighbours aren't suffering and are on different ISPs then the finger is surely pointed at the Post Office.

As far as 20CN goes, it's my understanding (reading publicly available reports) that, whilst it was completely withdrawn at all sites where there is 21CN capacity, that there were still a small minority of small exchanges (perhaps 5%) where there were no firm plans. Indeed, the ADSL 8mbps DSLAMs are part of 20CN, and it might be that they are equipped to talk to ATM and nothing else. The normal sign an exchange has been updated to 21CN is when ADSL2+ becomes available.

Its not alignment with BT Wholesale, but a willingness to buy reasonable capacity from the various networks to cover all the UK. PlusNet does charge a bit more in areas like yours.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Its not alignment with BT Wholesale, but a willingness to buy reasonable capacity from the various networks to cover all the UK. PlusNet does charge a bit more in areas like yours.

Yes, well said. I'm sure someone like Zen would be good in this instance also?

There's definitely some exchanges where you just couldn't fit 21CN equipment in there. As small as it is. Some exchanges are basically just large sheds. To be fair in exchanges that are physically full it requires BT to be creative about their use of land, you could add a small shed onto some existing ones and put the rack in there but then you would generally need planning permission etc.

Edited by deleted (Mon 29-Aug-16 11:01:52)

Thanks for that. I had quite run out of eggs to suck.

Disagreeing is one thing .... (I think you may be wrong about 20CN backhaul, and both BT Wholesale ADSL2+ and FTTC do suffer from congestion problems).

Re the Post Offce, I have said an awful lot about that . I would still like to see more about the router. For instance, the higher speeds the OP sometimes gets may not be unrelated to having it switched off for a while. I get the feeling that it may be starting at 3Mbps+, which is still poor, then slowing down after a while. We haven't had a factory reset yet.

Switching ISP will if course almost certainly involve a new router. Making that redundant.

In reply to a post by TheEulerID:

that there were still a small minority of small exchanges (perhaps 5%) where there were no firm plans.

I think it is better thought of as a small minority of lines (or subscribers). Around 94-95% do indeed have access to 21CN, and 20CN is indeed being retired as 21CN WBC reaches more exchanges. That retirement isn't complete, but the intention is certainly to get rid of 20CN wherever 21CN touches.

Unfortunately, while the number of 20CN-only lines is relatively few, the number of exchanges is comparatively large: some 1900 exchanges out of 5500, just over a third, have only the choice of 20CN.

In places where there is no room to add a 21CN DSLAM, BT are starting to trial a process where migrations are forced: a 20CN DSLAM will be removed and a 21CN DSLAM put in place, all in one night.