Help got too many providers

Think I am paying too much.
Got phone plus evening & weekend calls with BT for last 20 yrs paying £18.99 plus £3.80
Broadband was with 02, who were bought over by Sky, they charge £10 pm plus 'penalty' for not having Sky Talk of another £5 pm
Question: should I switch broadband to BT or phone to Sky? O2 were such great providers but since went to Sky broadband quite often crashes for a few minutes which never happened before, but then I've heard BT can be not so good too. No cable in my area. I'm on Milngavie exchange. Any advice would be welcomed thanks.

Are the 'crashes' reflected by the DSL light on the modem flashing to show its reconnecting?

O2 were such great providers but since went to Sky broadband quite often crashes for a few minutes which never happened before, but then I've heard BT can be not so good too.

These "crashes" will not be due to the ISP but instead a setup issue or an external fault. Simply put just because you have Sky as an ISP does not mean your line will "crash." The vast majority of customers on Sky, BT, TalkTalk, Plusnet etc do not experience these issues, the fact you have these problems purely demonstrates an underlying issue that needs resolving. Changing ISPs but keeping the same poor setup or not fixing the same external line fault will do very little to resolve thing.

As for your price, what is the total paid for Broadband + Line Rental + Phone.
I am getting £18.99 + £3.80 + £10 + £5 = £37.79 is that accurate?

Are you on fibre service or ADSL2+?

Yes £37.79 would be right that's why I thought bundling phone with broadband might be cheaper.
Maybe crashes isn't the right word, I mean I can be on website and the screen jams or I go to open a new tab and get message not connected to server, so I walk away for few mins until it comes back. So it's hardware rather than the ISP?

That description could be anything from a stall on the PC operating system, through to DSL resync, through to DNS issue, through to temporary routing failure at ISP through to the website itself being slow.

Does this happen with the router connected to the PC with an ethernet cable?

What are the router line stats?

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php

What router do you have, we can diagnose whether the broadband itself is dropping out? If not, it is your hardware causing the issues.

It would be cheaper to bundle it all together yes, e.g. Sky is only £18.99 a month for ADSL2+ for a new customer (including line rental). I see no reason retention's would be unable to get you close.

Plusnet is £19.99 inc line rental

Talktalk £20 inc line rental

(all prices from uswitch).


For what you are paying you could save £10 and still get fibre with some ISPs.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 10-May-17 14:27:36)

Sorry, took me ages to figure out where to find these, hope this helps:
ADSL
2.1 DSL Status : Up
2.2 Uptime : 20 days 3 hours 8 mins 17 secs
2.3 Type : ADSL2+ Annex A
2.4 Line Rate (Up / Down) : 1369 Kbps / 5507 Kbps
2.5 Noise Margin (Up / Down) : 4.4 dB / 8.8 dB
2.6 Attenuation (Up / Down) : 22.4 dB / 39 dB
2.7 Power (Up / Down) : 12.2 dBm /
This all means nothing to me, but any help/advice would be appreciated ta
The router is Thomson O2 wireless box IV

Edited by deleted (Thu 11-May-17 00:06:52)

Those stats show that the router has been connected for many days, so are the drop outs you report wifi related then ?

The downstream sync rate looks lowish for the line attenuation, and the SNR implies something amiss too. Could you please describe the physical set up in your house, telephone points, what's connected where and so forth ?

You could try connecting the router to the TEST socket within the BT Master Socket to see if the line stats improve e.g. sync rate increases, if they do it would suggest the internal wiring etc could be causing issues.

Putting the line stats into MrSaffron's line speed checker indicates you should be getting better speed from your ADSL2+ service:-

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

An explanation of line stats from Kitz :- http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats_explanation.htm

20 days 3 hours 8 mins 17 secs without a single drop out. Certainly the sky broadband is not dropping. Are you far away from the router? Is your machine old? Are you using WiFi?

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 11-May-17 12:13:03)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Those stats show that the router has been connected for many days, so are the drop outs you report wifi related then ?

Not necessarily! Uptime could be how long the router has been switched on overall, not since the last resync.

My EE router uses:

1. "Uptime" for total time router has been running.
2. "Time connected" for time current connection has been up, since last resync.

Point taken, but as a poster of the Sky Forums, I know that when the o2 users were migrated to Sky - users complained of o2 router stats displaying poor "uptimes." It turned out the uptime was resetting each time Skys DLM made any changes. They believed initially Skys network was remotely rebooting their routers in the late hours...

In this instance I am confident the uptime means connection uptime although I could of course be wrong. I am basing this judgement on the above.

Yes all our devices are connected via wifi. The router isn't in the main socket as that's in the kitchen with a built in fridge and oven right beside hence no place for a router and it's wiring (we inherited this layout) but filters are in all phone sockets

The router is the original one from O2 so it's a good few years old. Sky never offered to provide a new one when they bought O2 over, would the age of the router play a part? Do routers become out of date?
Would switching to fibre help, would this be a good idea? We only use internet for emails and catch up tv, no one in house is a gamer

Edited by deleted (Thu 11-May-17 23:07:05)

In reply to a post by allie:

The router isn't in the main socket as that's in the kitchen with a built in fridge and oven right beside hence no place for a router and it's wiring (we inherited this layout) but filters are in all phone sockets

Not ideal.

Without knowing the quality of your extension wiring I would suggest an "extension kit" i.e. a filtered faceplate with A-B terminals fitted onto the main socket (NTE5?), 100% copper twisted pair cable (2 pair cw1308 will be OK) and a dedicated adsl rj11 socket. The router can then be positioned in a convenient location as close to the master/main socket as possible, hence keeping the extension as short as possible.

What are the predicted speeds on fibre?

It is very possible the router is failing here, mine typically last around 3 years before showing issues.

I'd definitely give sky a quick call, look to move the line rental broadband calls etc all under one roof. You'll probably be able to get fibre cheaper than you are currently paying. Ask for the sky Q hub it's decent.

The stats aren't very good but Sky's DLM often gave very poor speeds to o2 routers and often times locked o2 routers on ADSL2 not 2+. So that doesn't shock me massively, it could be your setup but equally it could be the sky DLM on o2 routers.

Thanks for all the advice will try and change router connection set up. Is Sky broadband better than BT in general or is there not much in it as I need to move either phone line to Sky or broadband to BT

In reply to a post by allie:

Thanks for all the advice will try and change router connection set up. Is Sky broadband better than BT in general or is there not much in it as I need to move either phone line to Sky or broadband to BT

I have had Sky, TalkTalk and BT. Connection wise they all performed the same.

Customer service wise BT & TalkTalk are equally bad in my opinion. Sky is ahead for CS.

The only provider I have used where performance was dire, was virginmedia. I paid for 200Mbps and was unable to load netflix what-so-ever...

Anyway, between Sky and BT I would just choose whichever offers a good deal.

In your shoes I would be looking at BT Infinity 1 Unlimited and Sky Fibre Unlimited.
Do specify unlimited as both BT & Sky offer a non-unlimited fibre service which is considerably cheaper, but charges hefty fees for excess usage.

If you go here: https://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/upgr...

Go right to the bottom, there is a yellow bar which says "login to see your personalised broadband deal" - click the See my offers. Login using your BT ID. Do you see an attractive broadband offer?

Thank u ukhardy07, will go and price current deals. I'm not good at technical stuff but is it easy to switch from Sky to BT or vice versa at end of any deal or does that usually involve new line charges (I've never understood the implications of the unbundled llu stuff) I can't get cable anyway but I thought I'd read that switching to say Talk Talk back to BT can involve new line set up is that because they are llu or I'm I completely wrong lol!

The migration/setup fee will be charged, so joining BT means the £59.99 fibre activation fee, and for BT to Sky moves fee is £48.95 to £59.99 depending on current offers.

Those same fees apply even when not moving between LLU these days.

There are fees regardless on most major providers now, if you call often the providers make it free.

If you have everything with BT and want to switch to Sky. You simply call Sky, or go online to Skys website, place an order with your BT telephone number. At this stage Sky will contact BT on your behalf, and you will get a letter from BT confirming any exit charges. Everything goes to Sky automatically. To switch from BT to Sky, you only contact Sky, there is zero need to speak with BT and you do not have to speak to BT cancellations like the old days.

Similar, if you are currently on TalkTalk and wish to migrate to BT. Simply call BT, give them your talktalk number, sign up to a package. The TalkTalk will get closed down automatically and a letter confirming any charges will be sent to you. No need to call TalkTalk to cancel, it all gets handled by the new provider.

Migrations are relatively easy, usually takes 10 to 21 days to move over.

As a reference I have been on Sky, BT and TalkTalk and I have never paid an install fee. There is always either some cashback which covers the fee, or call up and they will remove it most of the time.

Also worth noting most providers now give one price for Broadband, this price often includes line rental ... Most no longer sell broadband + line rental as a separate price.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sat 13-May-17 14:23:59)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

There are fees regardless on most major providers now, if you call often the providers make it free.

Free for fibre "Wires-Only Self Install / Migration" - a managed installation might cost £96.00 and could include a "data extension" from the NTE5?

One problem with calling can be that some deals/coupons/cashback are only available if you order fully online.