Here's a counter position for fairness (as those two firms/people have worked harder than most to find a way out the hole Enta dropped their resellers in):

The issue with resellers and vISPs is rather more complex than premises/addresses. Basically they market & resell a service. They get/retain about £1-£2 per calendar month per line. So its a pretty tight budget. Most Enta resellers used Enta to do the billing and to provide support - although offering to assist with issues themselves as added value.

So:
No ISP hardware needed - PC + software to access wholesalers' systems. They don't even have to manage/support radius protocols directly for the BT connection.

Email & Hosting - If they offer this above the wholesalers packages they should "ofcourse" host this elsewhere. It would be in a data centre somewhere with good & cheap connectivity. After all most small/medium hosting companies co-locate or even just rent racks or processing in one of the big data centres. Way too expensive to run inhouse properly as you need redundant links, security, fire protection, etc. Once you have (say) 5 or 10 racks of kit it might make sense, but I doubt it.

Status and their own pages. Many ISPs - even big ones - host this inhouse. It actually makes sense to host it offsite even for the big ones. During a bad failure you cannot get information if the status pages are inhouse. Many small/medium ISPs have demonstrated this. Probably best even in shared hosting at a third location. AAisp handle some of this by putting status information into a public blog. Simple, cheap and effective.

So lets see, almost no kit needed, a phone line or 10 (as you get much bigger), good at marketing, user contract is often with wholesaler. If you are clever with handling support, email, and phonecalls you hardly need any staff and probably can't afford many on £1 pcm. This is why some vISPs can be great - added value - and others not - like "real" ISPs every penny saved is money in the bank.

I reckon I could run a vISP with a fast BB line into two houses where I might be and 3G for backup. A powerful laptop, some remote hosting, co-location or bought in email/client hosting/VoIP. The careful use of VoIP - or even Managed phone lines (eg. 0800, 0845, etc) - lets the company be anywhere (!) sometimes from hour to hour. Your staff can work from home too - which is better if you want to provide support outside office hours - which a few "established isps" would do well to learn from! Then automate as much trivia as possible - ie. links to wholesaler, user management, etc. Eventually you might have enough £1 pcm customers to centralise something, but it would be planning/finance/sales long before it needed to be support, etc.

Even if you think of Enta they had centrals linked into Telehouse not just into Telford.

Hi

Our offices are above a corner shop and the shop beneth us is a soliciotrs.

Mike

In reply to a post by Titan_ADSL:

Our offices are above a corner shop and the shop beneth us is a soliciotrs.

Thanks for clearing that up (because your postcode, into Mulitmap "bird's eye view", placed you right in the middle of a long line of terraced houses).

Should i be cautious of vISPs?

I don't mind if it's a small business so long as the product is delivered as promised and i've read good things regarding both companies.

It seems to me that people seem to achieve much more proactive support from these companies then the likes of BT, not that i expect to need it. I also like the niche features, e.g. sensible FUP and free static IP.

Also, i'm a price aware customer but if £1 - £2 pcm profit is all they make that seems hardly worth their while, surely?

Edited by yoof (Tue 05-May-09 03:20:11)

£1 - £2 pcm profit multiplied by several hundred or thousand customers is not to be sneezed at.

Personally, I've always preferred to give my business to the "smaller independant businesses" in most thing rather than the big-boys, and generally got a better service and care as a result.

I've been happily with the Enta resellers for something like 3 years now, and have found them to be generally excellent & helpful (even though Enta themselves seem to currently be giving both resellers & many customers considerable grief with Enta's recent mucking about)

Having successfully run a small business IT business myself for 20 years starting as a one-man band in my small bedroom then growing within six months into needing offices and acquiring staff I don't see a problem .

As has been pointed out, a few thousand customers at £1pm allows quite a nice profit if you keep your overheads down - for example by not having a large glass-fronted modern office. Providing a good service that doesn't need you to keep spending time looking at problems - by making sure they don't occur - is the key.

That's why these two have got new wholesalers recently, as Enta have let down their vISPs.

Should you be careful of large ISPs? BT, Tiscali, TalkTalk, Orange for instance? I think you will find nearly all of us would recommend against those.

Edit - Of course you should be careful! Of any ISP/vISP. That's why you opened the thread isn't it?

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 05-May-09 08:33:21)

excellent post.

Thanks to everyone who replied, i think i'll try vivacity.

Am i right in thinking it'll take around 10 days to activate the line? (the horror, how will i cope) The current tennant has Sky nonLLU. So i assume when he migrates it, that i'll need to pay an activation fee for my ADSL contract, which is fine.

I can't see a way of him clearing the line and me being able to order my own connection in time for there to be a near seamless change in supplier and contract.

Any hints or tips? Also what happens if i move in and his SKY ADSL hasn't be migrated off? Can i get it kicked off immediately? I guess i'll have to setup the line rental with BT first then i'll be able to order the ADSL, oh no, this is sounding like 14 days of misery. lol

any advice on this?

Thanks
Marc.

Hi,
New connections for IPStream only take 5 working days (LLU a bit longer)
As the currant service is non LLU then not so much a problem, Sky should place the cease correctly, but if they dont it's not such a big deal, as you will be changing the phone line over to you I assume, then this should automatically place a cease on the ADSL service.Have you already spoken with your telco provider about taking over the line?
Once the line has been put on in your name (will you be asking for a new number as this will help you) then 24 hours after the change over and once the BT database updates and order for ADSL can be placed, so should not be anywhere near 14 days (as long as all goes well with it and as it should)

In reply to a post by yoof:

Should i be cautious of vISPs?

No, I thought that at one time,and it took me ages to change from Eclipse to ADSL24 and I was shocked at the service, it was great, the connection was great and the customer service was great.

I only left because of BT broadband anywhere. the problem now is that Entanet who supplies the service to Adsl24, Titan and others have mucked up and the value is not there any more.
I was looking at maybe changing back once my Bt contract is over, but I doubt I will now.

I think the reason why Titan ADSL, Vivaciti and ADSL24 have gone for LLu is because they are not happy with Entanet, but I would not change to LLU myself unless the offer was really good.

It seems to me that people seem to achieve much more proactive support from these companies then the likes of BT, not that i expect to need it. I also like the niche features, e.g. sensible FUP and free static IP.

Oh yes, James from ADSL24 phoned me to tell me m,y MAC had gone though and also Phoned me to say I was connected, I doubt you will get that from the larger ISPs.

Also, i'm a price aware customer but if £1 - £2 pcm profit is all they make that seems hardly worth their while, surely?

I think most people are now, If I stay with Bt after my contract then I want a good deal. I know £1-£2 don't sound much, but it adds up if you got a lot of customers. Just don't go mad with offices.

yoof, did you transfer over to vivacity? How have they been if you have? If not then if you can let me know when you do transfer with some speeds vs downstream attenuation.

Many thanks.