Zen Ipstream to O2 LLU?

It maybe time to move

I am currently on one of the old Zen 1000 packages on a legacy IPstream line
This is costing me about £30 a month, They are withdrawing binary news, which I used, but not a great deal....But to replace the functionailty is going to cost me another $9 or so. Up until this point I have been a good advocate for Zen, and recommended them, despite being at the dear end of the market, but with loss of the news service, I would really struggle to justify the extra cost.

Now £40 for internet is getting a bit steep, I'm a reasonably heavy user at 30 gig per month average.

I am nearly 6k from my exchange......DB of 57 SNR of 21 So know I am not going to get anything amazing.


Looking to maybe move to O2 as probably the best LLU operator in my exchange (Chester South) Paying for this, and a news service will cost me around £20 a month, a fair saving.

What is worrying me though, is speeds and line stability.

Can I reasonable expect a same as / better service than I am on now?

My line currently always runs at its max speed and is very stable.

Its a hard decision, as being a legacy ipstream product, its a one way move, If I dont get a reasonable service, I won't have the option to get what I currently have back.


Any advice and opinions greatfully received! Thanks

Try putting your number into the O2 checker and see if it offers you O2 Standard (up to 8Mbps). That is the LLU product and is brilliant.

However with that attenuation it may only offer you O2 Access (up to 8Mbps) at a much higher price and even I, as a big O2 fan, find that hard to recommend at the moment. It is a BT IPStream service and is often over-subscribed due to the big name and offers going on. Every so often O2 get more BT kit in and things are OK for a while, then they seem to go down again.

So see what it offers. If it is Standard then no worries. Don't sign up there though. Clear cookies and go in through Quidco and get £50 cashback. (Less £5 if it is your first deal in each year).

There is also an argument if it offers you Standard and Premium for going for Premium at the moment due to the free 3 months, even though your line won't get anywhere near 8Mbps never mind 24Mbps. See the last page of MKD's comprehensive document for the calculations.

If it offers only Access let me know and I will give you a link to a forum or two to see for yourself. It could be the congestion is geographic.

Thanks, their checker indicates up to 3 meg, and I can select from standard, premium and Pro.

Im guessing with my distance, the standard is the best bet, cant see premium offering me anything more (unless i'm missing something?)

Im only getting (a very robust) 1 meg now, so any increase is a bonus.

Its reliability that concerns me more.

all I really want I think, is reassuance I wont regret a move, I get the max my current lie allows at all times, up and download, and I really dont want those to suffer

That's brilliant .

I can give you more idea about connection speed stability if you can post your line stats - see here if you need help, but as you know the attenuation you probably know how to get them. You may not be seeing error stats though, and those would help as well as the actual sync (1152?) and noise margin immediately after a sync.

Download speed is a always above 80% of sync and usually approaches the theoretical maximum of about 85%. (On your fixed speed most of that loss is from the 1152 sync to the actual 1Mbps speed you are signed up for).

The choice between Standard and Premium is purely on cost in your case, as depending on whether or not you have an O2 mobile and whether it is contract or PAYG if you do, Premium at the moment can be 3p more expensive, £9.97 (I think) cheaper, or £14.64 cheaper over the year. As I said, look at MKD's doc for the actual costs.

As you would almost certainly want to downgrade at the end of the first year if on Premium that would mean starting a new 12-month minimum term instead of going onto 30 days notice, but if you were happy that probably wouldn't matter, and if you were unhappy you would be leaving anyway.

Then of course minor things like extra McAfee licences (yuk) and more free online texts (useful for some people).

Let's see those stats. From what you said before they should be OK but worth a check.

LocalSNRMargin= 20.5 dB
LocalLineAttn= 57.0 dB
LocalTxPower= 11.5 dB
LocalFastChannelRxRate= 1152000
LocalFastChannelTxRate= 288000

25 Uncorrected Blocks is the only error I can find
is I think the main detail you are after....here are the full stats :

show adsl
Version= 119
DspFirmwareVersion= E.67.2.55
DSPVersion= 0x00000050
Connected= True
OperationalMode= t1.413
State= Showtime
Watchdog= 0x00000053
OperationProgress= 0x000000AD
LastFailed= 0x00000000
TxBitRate= 288000
RxBitRate= 1152000
TxCellRate= 679
RxCellRate= 2716
PhyTXCellCount= 2565485
PhyRXCellCount= 7059246
PhyCellDropCount= 0
OverallFailure= 0
LocalITUCountryCode= 0x0000B5FF
LocalSEF= 0
LocalEndLOS= 0
LocalSNRMargin= 20.5 dB
LocalLineAttn= 57.0 dB
LocalTxPower= 11.5 dB
LocalFastChannelRxRate= 1152000
LocalFastChannelTxRate= 288000
LocalFastChannelFEC= 0
LocalFastChannelCRC= 25
LocalFastChannelHEC= 10
LocalFastChannelNCD= 0
LocalFastChannelOCD= 0
LocalInterleavedChannelRxRate= 0
LocalInterleavedChannelTxRate= 0
LocalInterleavedChannelFEC= 0
LocalInterleavedChannelCRC= 0
LocalInterleavedChannelHEC= 0
LocalInterleavedChannelNCD= 0
LocalInterleavedChannelOCD= 0
RemoteSEF= 0
RemoteLOS= 0
RemoteLineAttn= 31.5 dB
RemoteSNRMargin= 21 dB
RemoteFastChannelFEC= 0
RemoteFastChannelCRC= 0
RemoteFastChannelHEC= 0
RemoteFastChannelNCD= 0
RemoteInterleavedChannelFEC= 0
RemoteInterleavedChannelCRC= 0
RemoteInterleavedChannelHEC= 0
RemoteInterleavedChannelNCD= 0
LocalMgmtFEC0= 0
LocalMgmtCRC0= 0
LocalMgmtFECErroredSec= 0
LocalMgmtErroredSec= 0
LocalMgmtSeverelyErroredSec= 0
LocalMgmtLOSErroredSec= 0
LocalMgmtUnavailErroredSec= 0
LocalMgmtHEC0= 0
RemoteMgmtFEC0= 0
RemoteMgmtCRC0= 0
RemoteMgmtFECErroredSec= 0
RemoteMgmtErroredSec= 0
RemoteMgmtSeverelyErroredSec= 0
RemoteMgmtLOSErroredSec= 0
RemoteMgmtUnavailErroredSec= 0
RemoteMgmtHEC0= 0
LocalTPSTCCell0= 0
LocalTPSTCCell0UpperLayer= 0
LocalTPSTCBitError= 0
RemoteTPSTCCell0= 0
RemoteTPSTCCell0UpperLayer= 0
RemoteTPSTCBitError= 0
SRA= Disable
PSDMask= Standard
ActivateLine= None
HostControl= Enable
AutoStart= True
Failsafe= False
Action= Startup
Standard= t1.413
UtopiaInterface= Level1
EcFdmMode= FDM
MaxBitsPerBin= 15
TxStartBin= 6
TxEndBin= 31
RxStartBin= 32
RxEndBin= 255
RxAutoBinAdjust= Disable
TxAttenuation= 0.0 dB
BitSwap= Enable
BitSwapUp= Enable
NTRMode= Disable
AnnexType= AnnexA
MaxDownRate= 255
PhysicalPort= 0
DetectNoise= Disable
Capability= AnnexA, Value=0x1
CodingGain= auto
FramerType= Type3
DyingGasp= Disable
Defaults= None
FULL_RETRAIN= Overall Retrain

That looks fine to me. Not sure from the cell count how long it has been since the re-sync as I don't normally look at that, but the 25 CRCs and 10HECs don't look too scary to me.

The 3Mb estimate may be a bit conservative.

The last consideration is whether you do a lot of gaming, as interleaving will be on with O2 and I'm not sure you can have it disabled. With the sister company Be (Value package) I believe you can ring up to get it turned off. Interleaving adds about 20ms to latency/pings.

Apart from that I don't think you have anything to worry about.

There is another consideration - I am a great believer in ISP-independent email. It tends to be more reliable and makes migration a lot simpler as nothing needs to be changed on the day, and nobody needs notification.

I'll tell you more about if if you are interested. Mine costs me £1.14 per month with my own domain, 10 mailboxes, POP3/SMTP/IMAP and Webmail, with Spam Assassin on the servers included if you activate it.

Be* will not enable fastpath on Be* Value - only Unlimited or Pro

Cheers, dont do 'real' online gaming anymore, just a bit of mario kart wii these days, so thats not too important.

have used ISP mail since leaving my last ISP (demon) years ago, makes it too awkward and tying.

So, going for the Middle package (premium) can give better speeds (pings) I'd pay another £2 for that.


last resync was Saturday - was playing with line / extensions to improve snr / db

Edited by jamsmv6 (Mon 18-May-09 13:30:31)

Premium will give exactly the same speeds and pings as Standard on your line.

cheers, good to know, don't want to throw my money away


which is why I am here really!


Been so happy with zen, resent having to make this decision, and really don't want to regret it.