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Standard User Jrd
(newbie) Thu 23-Jul-09 13:07:02
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What can I get with this? Please help!


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I have just bought a new house which is due to be completed in November, so I am trying to get my services sorted out now.

Going to go with Sky and use a Sky HD+ box.

Most of the town is served by Virgin cable, I have contacted them and they told me they havn't laid new cables for years and won't be anytime soon.

So my new house isn't able to get cable, I am hoping this might mean I will get a better DSL connection since most of the town is on cable?

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SLIMM

This is the exchange I will be connected to, my house will be roughly 1 mile away.

According to sam knows on that exchange all is avaialble is cable, ADSl + ADSL max. There is no LLU available, which I would have been able to go up to 24mg on with the ADSL2+?

So what I am confused about is, since all I will have available is BT + BT resellers (correct me if I'm wrong)

If its BT or a BT reseller will I get the throttling I have read so much about ? What kind of speeds do you think I will get according to sam knows with most people using VM cable.

If you need any more info I will try get it for you, any help welcomed!

TY
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 23-Jul-09 13:40:48
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Re: What can I get with this? Please help!


[re: Jrd] [link to this post]
 
Some BT resellers are better than others. If you want a quality reseller look for the likes of NewNet, Zen, IDNet, and AAISP.
Standard User Jrd
(newbie) Thu 23-Jul-09 13:48:58
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Re: What can I get with this? Please help!


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But what is the differnce if I get a reseller? Do they have their own fair use policys? Or do they use the same throttling as BT?


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Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 23-Jul-09 14:33:28
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Re: What can I get with this? Please help!


[re: Jrd] [link to this post]
 
The ones I mentioned don't throttle or traffic shape as far as I am aware.
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Thu 23-Jul-09 14:36:24
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Re: What can I get with this? Please help!


[re: Jrd] [link to this post]
 
To get an ADSL speed estimate put the existing phone number (if known) or post code in here: http://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Community/Br...
Standard User Apprentice
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 23-Jul-09 23:15:42
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Re: What can I get with this? Please help!


[re: Jrd] [link to this post]
 
This is the exchange I will be connected to, my house will be roughly 1 mile away.

Unfortunately there is no guarantee that the phone line length from the exchange to your new house will be 1 mile away.

BT broadband is throttled at times and the contracts are long, so it would make sense to go with an ISP offering 1 month contracts to start with.

The ones that john2007 mentioned are well worth considering, especially with a new connection tongue

In choosing between them lot depends on how much you expect to down load each month as they all have various price packages re. download allowances.

If you have some spare time check out the KITZ website for further info.

Alastair

omadasafisho
Standard User deleted
(deleted) Fri 24-Jul-09 00:08:10
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Re: What can I get with this? Please help!


[re: Jrd] [link to this post]
 
note that virgin media having a presence has no effect on ADSL speeds. With you beign a mile from the exchange you'll have a high change of getting 7.15mbps from a Max connection, or at bare minimum double figures if your exchange is WBC enabled. Depending on your usage paterns, you need to select an ISP that is right for you. Try to avoid the big names like AOL and tiscali because they throttle he hardest, also avoid virginmedias ADSL offering as that too is useless.
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Fri 24-Jul-09 00:37:48
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Re: What can I get with this? Please help!


[re: Jrd] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Jrd:
But what is the differnce if I get a reseller? Do they have their own fair use policys? Or do they use the same throttling as BT?
You are probably unaware that there are three different parts of BT involved in broadband supply in this country. BT Retail, BT Wholesale and BT Openreach.

BT Openreach own and maintain the exchanges and the telephone lines to premises. We can ignore them for the minute as not really relevant to what you need to know.

BT Wholesale run a system called IPStream - also known as ADSL Max, running over those lines. This is the up to 8Mbps service.

They then sell this service to ISPs. BT Retail who sell BT Broadband to the public is just one ISP amongst all the others (broadly speaking). So other ISPs are not re-selling BT Broadband as you know it and to call them resellers is incorrect. They are retailing the wholesale product just like BT Retail. Sainsbury's retail Heinz baked beans and so do Tesco as a rough analogy.

An ISP has to have equipment called a Central at its premises to receive the traffic from all their customers throughout the country. They need many of these as a Central has a maximum throughput of 622Mbps. As you can easily see that won't handle many customers running at 8Mbps. A Central costs over £1m rental per year. So given broadband prices, things don't add up.

The reason it works is that not many lines work at 8mbps in practice due to length, as you know. And not many users run at full line speed for more than a second or two in a minute. When you are browsing, you download a page in a fraction of a second then read it for several and your connection is idle.

That's why P2P and iPlayer and streaming video screw everything up. The Centrals at the ISP can't cope with simultaneous constant data flow to everyone.

That's the structure.

The difference between ISPs is the number of Centrals they have compared to their number of customers. Basically they allow a number of kbps per customer (I have seen 32kbps mentioned for one ISP) based on experience or what their accountants tell them they need to make a profit, as being the average rate used by a customer over the time they are using the internet.

They multiply the rate per customer they will provide by the number of customers and divide by 622Mbps. Then rent that number of Centrals. (Obviously it is rather more complicated than that but the principle is there - just in case any purists are offended).

So an ISP that allows more per customer is likely to provide a better throughput when things get busy. To do this they generally have to charge more. Though some charge quite highly but still allow a low average usage and just pocket the profit. For example BT Retail.

As a result, to stop everything clogging up completely ISPs like BT Retail have to throttle (traffic manage) their customers in one way or another - there are several methods.

The ISPs john2007 lists provide adequate average usage per customer to maintain acceptable speeds without throttling, partly by accepting lower profit margins and partly by having a pricing structure that is fine for lite or moderate users, say up to 50GB per month or so, but is too expensive for the heavy downloaders who therefore stay clear. Thus reducing the constant streaming needs on the Centrals and allowing unthrottled, lightly congested traffic through them.

The comparison tool on the TBB Main Site is a very good guide, though many other factors are relevant. Here is a sample comparison including those mentioned by john2007.

If you do some comparisons including Sky you will see it is sort of mid-range. That is deceptive as it covers the very good LLU service you will not be able to get and also the BT Wholesale based (as described above) Sky Connect service, which is apparently rather poor and you should avoid.

Similarly you have to watch out with O2. Although its rating is higher than Sky, for some reason its poor BTW based O2 Access doesn't bring its ratings down as much from the excellent O2 LLU products. I advise that you don't get O2 Access.

A long post I'm afraid, but I hope a couple of readings of it will help you.

Bob: Demon dialup >> Freeserve dialup >> BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet >> O2 Premium.
Purple Cloud for domain, email and web space.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 24-Jul-09 00:40:55)

Standard User Alken
(newbie) Mon 27-Jul-09 23:31:26
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Re: What can I get with this? Please help! *DELETED*


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