In reply to a post by RobertoS:

give notice once the broadband has gone across and the new has been rental ordered.

No need! It's auto as 14 days from migration.

Ah, I see!

Home Max was always up to 20 Meg. That statement "up to 10 Meg speed" is just Orange's estimate of your line's capability and probably mirrors what BT thinks at http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome .

My Orange statement says "Home Select - £12.26 a month, up to 13 Meg speed", yet I've been getting over 19 Meg for months. No way am I contracted to only 13 Meg; I would be up in arms if I were.

EDIT: What's it say at bottom of that page "We've checked out your line and your estimated speed is"?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 05-Mar-12 17:24:26)

Interesting... I'd like to think that was right, and it sounds like it is in your case as you are getting 19 when it says 13, however I am also given the option to 'upgrade' to "up to 20 meg" broadband.

http://cl.ly/222O3T1H0q0t1V3s1Q2j

However, like you say, the current description of my package could be judged on the speed they think I can get, and those options below are just for renewing into their newer contracts which are otherwise the same but a tad more expensive.

Either way, when I was certainly on a 'max your line' situation, I only just got 12meg or so, so now getting 8-9 is not much different, and doesn't necessarily mean I've been cut down to "up to 10". Either way, having the upgrades displayed like that in the screenshot above does suggest I am limited to 10Mb and I certainly have never seen speeds over 10Mb from my computer...

Charlie -

I get the exactly same set of "You can change to:" but in my case it makes more sense as I'm on the BB Only package.

The "Up to" speeds they quote are of Sync Speed not throughput.

On reflection, I think the same happened to you as happened to me (last April) when Orange switched from LLU to WBC.

On LLU you would have got a good Sync speed, 12+ Meg. When they switched you to WBC they put you on a high NM of 12 - 15 dB, which would have trimmed at least 2 Meg off your Sync. For some reason they leave it like that even tho' it is the same technology, ADSL2+, as LLU and your line is capable of more.

In my case they left me on 11.5 Meg @ 15 dB NM until I complained and insisted they reduce my NM to 6 dB. Eventually they did so and I ended up on 16.8 Meg @ 6 dB NM. Sometime later they reduced NM to 3 dB, which BT WBC can do, and I got the 19 Meg I'm getting now.

That 13 Meg estimate in my Orange online account appeared about the time I went to WBC; while on LLU it showed 17 Meg.

The stats do bear out what XRaySpeX is saying, though it's a damn funny thing for an ISP to do, and a daft way of describing the package. I'm not surprised you believe what it says, as no doubt do many thousand others.

The result of thousands or probably tens of thousands of users getting several Mbps less than they should is a huge cost saving to Orange or BT Wholesale, depending on the contract between them.

Whether you want to pursue the issue with Orange or not is up to you. The ADSL24 12Mbps package will give you 12Mbps connection with 10Mbps actual, as I said before. The 24Mbps product would give well over 13Mbps and possibly 14Mbps cnnection, giving you an extra 880kbps actual per 1Mbps connection speed. **** See next post ****

The high noise margin setting of 12dB at connection time would disappear on migration to these particular ADSL24 services. It would be set at 6dB and that would mean the full 12Mbps connection or "as fast as it can go", (figures already given), on the 24Mbps one.

There would also be the possibility of perhaps another 1Mbps/880kbps on the 24Mbps product by adjustments ADSL24 can make to the standard settings, but that would depend on how stable the line turned out to be.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 06-Mar-12 00:20:51)

In reply to a post by charliestyr:

All I can find is a summary that says:

This information reflects the current status of your DSL connection.
Line Rate - Upstream (Kbps): 952
Line Rate - Downstream (Kbps): 10115

That's what I was after .

It's about 1Mbps below what I hoped to see . Can you confirm the highest actual download speeds you used to get before all this happened? Not a range. The highest.

I presume they capped it at 10Mbps so that they can offer me the option to upgrade to a more expensive plan that is up to 24Mbps. I mean, when I signed up with the contract it was an up to 24Mbps contract, then they changed it about half way through to a 10Mbps contract... bit cheeky really. But, since I was only getting about 10-12Mbps on the 24, going down to 8-9 isn't the end of the world for me

So, you're saying that if I sign up for the 24Mbps contract I'd probably go back to that 10-12 ish amount? That's interesting, I always presumed that if you can't even get to the maximum speed your contract offers, switching to a higher maximum speed contract wouldn't make a difference! I will keep it in mind.

Charlie -

It's not surprising you are confused. What is certain is that one way or another, probably by setting the "target noise margin" to 12dB instead of the standard 6dB, Orange are unfairly capping your speed. I have this page explaining (target) noise margin, which should help you.

Upgrading on Orange would make no difference at all. Going for the 24Mbps product on ADSL24 would definitely give you more than the 12Mbps one, figures now given a few times. It's the attenuation that is the basic speed determinant, and yours of 34dB should connect at well over 13Mbps. But given the 10115kbps above I'm a bit puzzled, and less confident about whether the difference would be worth the extra cost. I'm going to ask about something elsewhere, hopefully get an answer during Tuesday.

Then of course, there is what made you start looking around anyway. You say they are throttling Spotify. This connection speed issue is nothing to do with that.

Read your article/page on the noise margin. Very interesting! I never realised how intricate broadband connections are, although of course I realise it is not a simple thing to put so much information through metal.

Anyway, I think you guys have provided me with lots of invaluable information, and I thank you for that! As far as I can tell, Orange are behaving vaguely oddly, but as the speed is still acceptable I've never thought about it much before.

You ask what the maximum speed I used to get was.. Basically, before my exchange changed, which I now gather was probably when they switched from LLU to wholesale or whatever, I used to get 1.2MB/s often and easily. Google tells me that is 9.6Mbps... Now I get 8.5Mbps ish, so a 1Mb drop on my vague memory and calculation!

I certainly do not intend to 'upgrade' on Orange, don't worry! I am definitely considering switching to ADSL24 though, and I will probably go for their 24Mb service based on what you have said. Since their contracts are 1 month, I presume it would be simple to change to the 12Mb if I was not getting high speeds.

Again, like you say (!) back to the beginning of all this, the main problem is that Orange throttle Spotify, and ADSL24 do not throttle, which is what was leading me there in the beginning. Any overall speed increase is a bonus as far as I am concerned, as to be honest, 8Mb or so is enough for most of my use. (Obviously more speed is always welcome!).

Thanks again for all your help and information, this is very well educated forum! I have learned a lot, which I genuinely appreciate.

Any further thoughts are of course welcome, but basically, I am set on switching to ADSL24 when I get my MAC through from Orange

Charlie -

Hi Charlie

Which package are you looking at with ourselves? Is it the LLU Premium Home or the standard BT package like Home 30? The LLU Premium Home is up to 12Mb but unlimited usage, whereas the Home 30 package is up to 24Mb (if your exchange supports BT 21CN) but capped peak usage/unlimited off-peak.

Anyhow our sales team will advise accordingly in any case.

Hi James,

I was looking at the Premium Plus initially based on what others have said about what my line should be able to do. Then, if I do not get speeds greater than ~10Mb I would probably switch to the Premium Home instead.

The limited peak time usage packages, such as Home 30 are quite likely to not be enough for me and my flatmate. (At the moment I can only monitor how much I use! Not sure how much could be used total).

Should I be considering some importance between going LLU or "standard BT" ? My exchange supports 21CN.

Charlie -