What can you say?
Pringles are chips & Fairy Cakes are muffins: it gets me - at my advanced age - quite confused!
Cheers, Les.

In reply to a post by lelboy:

Pringles are chips

Nope!

They used to be an excellent variation on crisps. Now they are crumbly polystyrene and tasteless pap.

Sadly, Bob, you're right.
On the one hand you could blame the manufacturers for creating such unpalatable dog-do, but the bigger villain is, I think, the buying public. If many of us didn't buy-in , en masse, to their advertising hype, then maybe they'd produce a better product. As it is, the buying public so often either accept what's put before them without question, or believe the hype and feel obliged to buy - because it'll make them better-looking/stronger/more attractive to the opposite (or the same) sex - and maybe even make them a celebrity (at least that's what the advertisements say!).
Me? I'll just keep with Smith's Crisps/Fry's Five Boys Chocolate and Ovaltine!
On to matters BB. I have just received my £25 cheque from ICM: they assured me that the download figures they advised me of "are" accurate i.e. 61meg DL so I suppose I should ignore all the TBB figures which often show lower?
Best wishes, Les.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If Openreach is so bad, then sub loop unbundling as Digital Region (and others) have done is an option for Sky.

You do release that Sky run their own DLM on their LLU services too? So would probably do similar on their own VDSL2 MSAN.

Of course reduced operators costs just mean the evil empires make more profits, nothing at all to do with the ability for broadband to have gone in price massively in last 12 years.

Yea no doubt about it ,if sky are able to use their dlm they will on FTTC, and of course it is one of the many reasons why sky is cheaper, and as for their idea of a 7db profile coupled ofcourse with DLM and no chance of fast path on their ADSL LLU ,products was one of the reasons i would not go to sky
But that my gripe, i don't mind paying a bit more for uk based support, with the added benefits of that isp having control of DLM fast path or interleave ect, but the sad fact is none at the present can offer this , unless talk talk will, but then they want to throttle speeds ect ,assuming they have the same control over fttc as sky do, If ukonline was still here you could bet that they would of been offering it on request

Edited by tommy45 (Tue 24-Jul-12 21:30:37)

On Openreach FTTC, (GEA), an ISP may impose its DLM on its own network, as BT Wholesale does to provide their IP Profile. Sky may well have some similar system, and TT too.

But none of the three can directly set the SNRM. End of!

They can request Standard (apparently 6dB), stable (9db?) or super-stable (12dB?).

Then there is a prioritisation system they can invoke wrt the traffic on any given user's line, but all that does is play with the way the bandwidth available to that customer is divided up between that customer's applications - VOIP, streaming, etc. They cannot prioritise one customer over another on the GEA service. Once it is handed over to them at the exchange, then of course they can do whatever they like.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

But that my gripe, i don't mind paying a bit more for uk based support, with the added benefits of that isp having control of DLM fast path or interleave ect, but the sad fact is none at the present can offer this

I think you'll find AAISP claim they will beat BTwholesale into providing this for their clients.

Your initial post is a bit confusing.

Do you want a new fibre-optic line? Neither Virgin nor Sky are likely to offer a fibre-optice line to your premise (unless you want a leased line of some sort).

Or are you talking about Sky's VDSL packages or Virgin's coax cable offers?

I haven't read through this whole thread, but I thought it might be good to clarify things first! I see a lot of confusion among users here on this forum, talking about copper lines as if they were a fibre-optic service!