Argos Windows 7 Offer BACK

Argos have Windows 7 Home Premium at £49.99 again
ARGOS
Get in quick while stocks last !!

And gone again worth checking back from time to time though
Edited: out of stock again seems I was lucky

Edited by boysteve (Thu 30-Jul-09 22:39:05)

There aren't any stocks - the product hasn't started shipping to retailers yet.

Interesting ad.

In one place :-

Enjoy a faster, easier, safer web experience with Internet Explorer 8.

Then a couple of lines lower :-

........ it will not come with Internet Explorer 8.

Obviously they are not waiting for the EU decision. Or do you think Argos know something that no one else seems to know ?

Edited by deleted (Thu 30-Jul-09 22:54:59)

I think they just copypasta stuff from other sites.

is it the full version? i thought alot of places were just doing the upgrade cheap

They do have "stocks" of the pre-orders in the form of an allocation.
Once they have sold their allocation they go "out of stock"

Dixon�s Windows 7 Professional E reduced price with 5% further reduction today Friday 31/07/09 until 4 pm. For the 5% discount enter CODE5

http://www.dixons.co.uk/martprd/product/024588

As I understand it there is no upgrade option in Europe as far as the first release of Win7 is concerned. Something to do with MS not having time to pull an upgrade version together that excludes IE in order to satisfy the EU rulings. Thus, in the short term, we will be getting the full version of Win7 without IE AKA Win7 E. Given the licence advantages of a full version as opposed to an upgrade or OEM version this makes it a pretty good deal (for a release of Windows).

However, for various reasons I'd not touch Home Premium with a barge pole. I have pre-ordered a couple of copies of Professional, though.

In reply to a post by Desmond:

As I understand it there is no upgrade option in Europe as far as the first release of Win7 is concerned. Something to do with MS not having time to pull an upgrade version together that excludes IE in order to satisfy the EU rulings. Thus, in the short term, we will be getting the full version of Win7 without IE AKA Win7 E. Given the licence advantages of a full version as opposed to an upgrade or OEM version this makes it a pretty good deal (for a release of Windows).

However, for various reasons I'd not touch Home Premium with a barge pole. I have pre-ordered a couple of copies of Professional, though.

I did mine thru pc world and yep pro too ..

There is, of course, a completely nonsensical downside to the E versions of Win 7; if you do an install, this doesn't include a browser, but in order to get a browser or anything to install one you need a browser. Thus, if you have only one PC and don't realise this beforehand and download and burn a browser installer to disk or put it on a USB stick, SD card or whatever then you are completely stuffed.

in order to get a browser or anything to install one you need a browser

Or FTP?

u can use wmp to get it, but it's irrelevent as ms has sais they'll do multiple choice.

How do you get access to FTP without a browser on a clean install of Windows without IE? Take this from the standpoint of a pretty average computer user, who has no clue about what FTP is.

In reply to a post by Desmond:

How do you get access to FTP without a browser

From the command prompt.

'add network location'

From the command prompt.

I'd add - with a few clear instructions.

Or even from a pre-written batch file.

Point conceded

Nope. Not in the first release anyway. MS have suggested to the EU that they might do this in later releases, which would put them in line with what PC manufacturers plan to do with their OEM versions, but the EU have yet to agree to it.

I am talking here about what are most users. They have no clue about command prompt is and then they'd need to know how to use it to download IE. Where would they find out how to do this without a browser?

eu didn't agree to the E version either.

AEP supplied a valuable addendum to my suggestion...

Again, how would an average PC user know how to do this? Easy for anyone who knows how, but not for someone who doesn't and finds themselves confronted with a shiny new install of Windows 7 on their only PC with no browser.

What makes you think the E version will include Windows Media Player?

No instructions available I'm afraid. I got home from work to find my new Windows 7 DVD and installed it on my only PC. After a few hours of hunting and reinstalling and who knows what it's now 9pm. I still have no IE on this install and no clue what to do in order to get it.

As I recall, Windows install comes up with a tedious and turgid series of screens detailing all the delights that are to follow... an instruction to double-click a batch file icon on the desktop should be within the capabilities of the average user.

In reply to a post by Desmond:

Again, how would an average PC user know how to do this? Easy for anyone who knows how, but not for someone who doesn't and finds themselves confronted with a shiny new install of Windows 7 on their only PC with no browser.

This is actually why microsoft sis it.l They were trying to make life awkard for the EU. The whole back down into a multiple choice thing was a result of the EUs persistent threats to sue them for 100s of millions like they did with the N version.

The EU can't object to it either since it does not include IE.

The EU don't care that IE is not included. The EU do care that the end user has a choice of browser which can be installed in a "user friendly" way.

Granted, but that is not what they are selling. This is why they have suggested a multiple choice option, but they say that it is apparently too late now to put this in the initial release. I have no clue why such simple things are beyond the reach of the world's biggest software company other than they are as determined to make a point out of making life so difficult for european users that the EU will back down.

yeh it was nevr about that.

The ironic result being that european users will not have an easy choice for any browser.

Of course, this affects european users, whether they are from countries inside the EU or not, which makes the idea of the UK withdrawing from the EU and suddenly not having to be bound by or affected by EU rules a nonsense. The only change would be that we would have no input into the making of such rules.

Hi, are you a member of the 'microsoft oureach' team by anychance?

Not at all. I'm posting from a Mac, which is what I use most of the time. I just find the whole thing utterly bizarre.

Just think about it. In 2009, Microsoft will be releasing a version of Windows in Europe that has about as much online functionality as Windows 3.1

You couldn't make it up. It's like Sony delivering a Hi Def TV that will only display 405 line black and white pictures.

I assume that means you are an OEM. (I understood that the first release of the RTM to Technet subscribers was to be 6th August). And you don't know how to use FTP from a command prompt?

In any case, you can't possibly have a retail version of Windows 7 yet, so who knows what will be on that.

The European Commission can confirm that Microsoft has proposed a consumer ballot screen as a solution to the pending antitrust case about the tying of Microsoft Internet Explorer web browser with Windows. This followed extensive discussions with the Commission which centred on a remedy outlined in the January 2009 Statement of Objections (see MEMO/09/15) whereby consumers would be shown a "ballot screen" from which they could � if they wished - easily install competing web browsers, set one of those browsers as a default, and disable Internet Explorer. Under the proposal, Windows 7 would include Internet Explorer, but the proposal recognises the principle that consumers should be given a free and effective choice of web browser, and sets out a means � the ballot screen - by which Microsoft believes that can be achieved. In addition OEMs would be able to install competing web browsers, set those as default and disable Internet Explorer should they so wish. The Commission welcomes this proposal, and will now investigate its practical effectiveness in terms of ensuring genuine consumer choice.

As the Commission indicated in June (see MEMO/09/272 ), the Commission was concerned that, should Microsoft's conduct prove to have been abusive, Microsoft's intention to separate Internet Explorer from Windows, without measures such as a ballot screen, would not necessarily have achieved greater consumer choice in practice and would not have been an effective remedy.

Microsoft has also made proposals in relation to disclosures of interoperability information that would improve the interoperability between third party products and Windows and Windows Server. Again, these proposals require further investigation before the Commission reaches any conclusion as to the next steps.

Microsoft's proposals will be published in full on its website.

The Commission has no further comment at this stage.

...whereby consumers would be shown a "ballot screen" from which they could � if they wished - easily install competing web browsers,...

We know it will be like that because MS have said it will be like that. Hence the websites where you can pre order Win 7 E tend to include a caveat about it not including IE or any other web browser. Some specifically tell users to download and burn an installer for a browser before they install Win 7.

Yes, I know how to use command prompt, but how many average PC users do you know who know how to use it?

Microsoft have also said that, like an upgrade option, this will not be an option on the initial 'E' release.

I'll add to my last post. Don't believe me, believe MS

Windows 7 E does not come with a browser in the UK and also requires a clean install. Before starting to install Windows 7, please click here for more information. You will need to back up all your files before starting and you will need to have a browser such as Internet Explorer 8 or a browser from another software manufacturer saved to a CD/DVD or external storage device before starting.

You misunderstand. I was talking about the DVD of Windows 7 that you got today. Surely it can only be an OEM one, and so irrelevant to any discussions of what will be on the retail version?

I don't believe Microsoft have said conclusively what the retail version will include.

how many average PC users do you know who know how to use [the command line]

Tbh I don't know any average users but in all my years of PC support I never met one who couldn't follow clear written instructions. The tricky bit is to make those instructions clear.

as a last resort they will bundle rival browsers on cd with the product if they have to. there is absolutely no way an end user is going to end up without an easy way of getting online.

and most people will only be getting windows7 when they buy a new pc. OEMs are free to install whichever browser(s) they like. and i'm sure in terms of reducing support costs, they will all bundle IE as standard.

I was talking about the DVD of Windows 7 that you got today.

Who said I got a DVD of Win 7 today? I certainly didn't.

I don't believe Microsoft have said conclusively what the retail version will include.

They have been very specific

I have read that, and I think it pre-dates the last offer to the EU on the 24th July. To "implement and test" a ballot screen shouldn't take Microsoft more than a week. I reckon they have time before they have to supply hard media in bulk to OEMs.

I don't believe MS have said anything about an additional CD or DVD with a selection of web browsers. As I have said before they have been very specific that the 'E' release will require a clean install and will not include any browsers.

OEMs have already said they will include a browser option, but that won't help european users who try to 'upgrade' to Win 7 between 22nd October and when MS get round to dealing with this issue if they install Win 7 and negate to RTFM first.

Browser issues aside, the clean install issue is bound to mean that a huge number of users inadvertently lose all their data because they simply did not take in what the installer was for you or I so obviously telling them.

In reply to a post by john2007:

it pre-dates

yep, igniore anything they PRed before their concession to the EU.

They have not said this and to ensure this advice was still current I just followed MS's links. I was very careful about this. Try it for yourself. Follow the links for MS in the UK/Buy now/Win 7...... / caveats/ and you will end up here.

I read the wording, legally they have to send you the full version.

No upgrade mentioned.
No requirements listed for old version of windows.
They also stating no browser included which would indicate the original version planned will be sent.

they might not have said anything yet but it's not released to the general public for another 3 months yet. a lot can change in that time.

my post was speculation on my part. whatever happens, i just cannot see microsoft letting end users end up sitting there staring at a nice new desktop on their screen without some easy way of getting online.

I'll accept your word about the destination link.

I think Microsoft have time to implement the browser ballot before the release deadline.

Indeed. And I think it is blindly obvious that if they suddenly included IE or some option that they could be taken to court for breaching any amount of EU legislation covering trade descriptions when they have specifically said that it won't include IE or any web browser.

I clearly misuderstood:

No instructions available I'm afraid. I got home from work to find my new Windows 7 DVD and installed it on my only PC. After a few hours of hunting and reinstalling and who knows what it's now 9pm. I still have no IE on this install and no clue what to do in order to get it.

I now have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about, so there's little point in continuing.

I don't believe a company could fall foul of the Trade Description Act if they provide a product with more functionality than originally promised.

The important thing is that they are selling it now and specifically saying that they will not include IE or any other web browser. If they (or retailers) had said that they reserved the right to include IE or another web browser then that would be another matter entirely, but that is not what they are saying.

I agree. Providing the EU also do, I don't think anyone's going to complain if Microsoft provide a product with more functionality than is presently promised.

But none of these sales constitute a contract, under the Distance Selling Regulations, until the goods are despatched. There's no problem if Microsoft decide to change their minds and include whatever they want to (from the contract point of view, as opposed to any EU regulations). If the customer doesn't like it they can return the goods and get a refund. No problem.

it's only available for pre-order now. it won't be shipping until 22nd october and by that time i'm sure a solution will be in place.

Edited by marc2003 (Fri 31-Jul-09 21:55:59)

It's obvious what I'm saying. My friend has no clue here (they are the people who call you because of some odd alert or whatever on their PC that makes no sense to them, but perfect sense to you). They have been using XP or Vista till now, but they have seen Win 7 promoted and gone and ordered it. It has arrived on 22nd October and they have installed it (no RTFM first). Now they want to surf the web. Bit of a problem here. Not only have they found that all their data has been erased, but they also find that there is no IE. Hunt as they like it's just not there. They try and install again, but to no avail. What will they do? Bear in mind here that this friend has one PC in their home.

In my case I suspect that I will be downloading IE, putting it on a USB stick, and going to their house on 23rd October - It's going to be a whole lot easier than trying to talk them through FTP or whatever.

Tbh, I think it extremely unlikely that an "average" user will be buying and installing Windows 7. They'll be using XP or Vista and be quite happy with it. They'll get Windows 7 when they buy a new PC, but not until then.

Why would such an average user go to the trouble of trying to install a new OS? And they certainly wouldn't get far trying to install it without reading the "quick start" documentation.

They could bundle a copy of Photoshop, AutoCAD, QuarkXpress, lord knows what else, and a couple of as yet unreleased films on blu-ray with Win 7 E (none of these being contentious since they are not MS products). They have, however, specifically excluded IE or any web browser as part of Win7 E. If they included it then it would be as patently ludicrous as a DVD retailer saying that it will not send you anything rated R or over then sending hard core porn as a freebie.

where is the 'digging a hole' smilie when you need it?

Unfortunately, the experience of Vista being released tells me otherwise.

I dunno. You seem convinced that an angel from Redmond will come to you as a saviour and that you will not have to do a clean install when you get your copy of Win 7 and that your angel will magically have a selection of browsers on a CD or USB key when you do. There is absolutely no evidence that this will happen on 22nd October 2009.

patently ludicrous

Appropriate words when likening Internet Explorer to hard core porn. I think this discussion has now left the realms of sanity.

Well, I'm amazed if naive computer users managed to upgrade form 2000 or XP to Vista without reading any instructions. I don't know anyone like that who bothered to upgrade, but I'll bow to your superior knowlege.

The only superior knowledge I may have is the number of people who I know and called me when they decided to upgrade to Vista (particularly the first release) and found it went horribly wrong. Even where they had read them, they'd not understood the instructions and warnings (obvious as they may seem to you and me).

Now imagine this with a release of Windows that requires a clean install and that doesn't include a web browser.

let's talk about this lack of a web browser on the 22nd of october shall we?

what is written on the website right now does not apply for all eternity. things will change. if i'm wrong, i will happily eat my hat.

Not really when MS have so specifically excluded IE as content in this release.

I suppose you expect that they will include an upgrade option on the install when they are saying that this isn't available in this release too. Remember that this option is specifically available to anyone not using an 'E' version.

I'm sure we will be talking about it so long as we don't rely on machines that have just had Win 7 installed.

What's written on a website may change, but if you buy something from it now you will be buying what they are selling now, not what they are selling tomorrow.

In reply to a post by AnotherExPipex:

What makes you think the E version will include Windows Media Player?

The N version is the one that doesn't contain Windows Media Player

Yawn.

In reply to a post by AnotherExPipex:

Tbh, I think it extremely unlikely that an "average" user will be buying and installing Windows 7. They'll be using XP or Vista and be quite happy with it. They'll get Windows 7 when they buy a new PC, but not until then.

Why would such an average user go to the trouble of trying to install a new OS? And they certainly wouldn't get far trying to install it without reading the "quick start" documentation.

What about the people buying computers until release date?

In reply to a post by Desmond:

Not really when MS have so specifically excluded IE as content in this release.

MS have promised a lot of things over the years...

I'm making no bets about what will and won't be included in the E version until it is released.

That, I agree, is a more reasonable scenario. But I don't believe that those people will try to blindly install a new OS without even reading the "Quick Start" instructions. If they do - well, you can't account for idiots.

I'm sure we will be talking about it so long as we don't rely on machines that have just had Win 7 installed.

And how, pray, are people who buy such machines going to lose all their data? And what will be wrong with the web browser installed by the OEM.

You can't "buy" Windows 7 from any website as yet. You can pre-order it; that is not a binding contract to supply exactly what is being advertised. They are not "selling" Windows 7 October.

Hopefully just under 3 months to find out.

Microsoft: No browserless Windows 7 after all

...and I note that it will be an upgrade version. Fair enough, really, that we get the same as the rest of the world.

In reply to a post by AnotherExPipex:

...and I note that it will be an upgrade version. Fair enough, really, that we get the same as the rest of the world.

If you have already ordered sounds like you have got one heck of a deal
As any who's already ordered will get the full version.

Edited by deleted (Sat 01-Aug-09 10:31:42)

I don't think the pre-orders will now be the full version. But, hey, you can always get your money back if you don't like it. Remember, the contract doesn't begin until the goods are despatched.

In reply to a post by AnotherExPipex:

I don't think the pre-orders will now be the full version. But, hey, you can always get your money back if you don't like it. Remember, the contract doesn't begin until the goods are despatched.

Don't you believe the last paragraph?

Those who pre-ordered Windows 7 "E" through a recent discount offer will get the full version, as Microsoft had promised. However, Microsoft plans to now sell Windows 7 upgrades in Europe and also offer a higher-priced full version (for those without an earlier copy of Windows)--similar to what it is doing in the rest of the world.

Edited by deleted (Sat 01-Aug-09 10:33:41)

Don't you believe the last paragraph?

I didn't read the last paragraph! Looks good if CNET are right.

It would take more than a week to make the appointments to meet with the lawyers of the other browser makers.

John.

Why would they do that? It seems to be a matter between Microsoft and the EU. Anyway, it appears that it's all history now and that Microsoft will supply a full version with IE included. I'm sure that those who object to extra functionality can get their money back if they feel cheated.

(Funny - a couple of years ago I went to a Lucinda Williams concert and Bruce Springsteen turned up on stage with her. I guess I should have asked for my money back as the organizers didn't tell me I was going to get The Boss as well as Lucinda.)

Why would they do that? It seems to be a matter between Microsoft and the EU.

If other browsers are going to be a part of the Windows install process then at the very least there will need to be a contract with the other browser makers permitting it. And there are endless other details that will need to be negotiated.

It's easy to look at the problem from a purely technical viewpoint and say that you could solve it in a couple of days - well maybe you could but you're not staking hundreds of millions of dollars on getting it right.

John.

there will need to be a contract with the other browser makers permitting it

Why? It's only links to publicly available web sites. I'm not sure that, e.g., Firefox has ever had any great input into people linking to their site. If Microsoft were to pursue this line (which they are not doing) you can be quite sure that they would already have sorted out the legality of it all.

Actually, it's quite clear that this was just an idea floated by Microsoft that was never seriously going to happen. But at least they can say they've made the effort - and then sell Windows 7 with IE included.

Although nothing has yet been agreed with the EU (as far as I know), the strong hint seemed to be that Microsoft would provide a list of alternative browsers, probably with links (not the actual code).

But - how will an alternative vendor get their link into the Microsoft list - pay Microsoft a fee, or maybe pay Microsoft introduction charges for every download that comes from a Windows 7 link. Pay Microsoft for advertising their products.

Who will get what priority order in "the list". And how.

The possibilities are endless.

Edited by deleted (Sat 01-Aug-09 11:54:58)

The possibilities are endless.

Now that Microsoft has announced that they won't be selling an E version I would say the possibilities are startless.

it will be the top 10 based on usage share according to their ballot box proposal....

The Ballot Screen will be populated with the most widely-used web browsers that run on Windows with a usage share of equal to or more than 0.5% in the EEA as measured semi-annually by a source commonly agreed between Microsoft and the European Commission (see paragraph 13), but not more than ten (not counting different versions of one and the same browser). In addition, if a browser�s usage share is among the top 10, but that browser is no longer actively offered by its vendor, that browser will not be included in the Ballot Screen.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/eu-msft...

Edited by marc2003 (Sat 01-Aug-09 11:58:41)

I just finished reading the actual proposal and the key points are as follows:

* Internet Explorer will be installed as normal in W7 with an option to turn it off.

* The ballot will be available as an Important update on Windows Update. It will NOT be included on any DVD.

* The ballot will nag the user until he makes a choice. *sigh*

* The ballot will be available for W7 on release day (assuming EU approval by then) and other versions of Windows between 3 and 6 months later.

* The ballot will include a maximum of ten browsers each of which must have a market share of at least 0.5% and be under active development.

* No charge will be made for inclusion in the ballot and Microsoft will bear all costs.

* The download link must be maintained by the browser maker and the package must not contain any other software. (No tool bars etc..)

John.

Damn - the lawyers got there first.

Well Microsoft's FUD worked. Scared everyone and then back tracked, to make the EU look like the bad guys and MS the good ..

How deeply sad.

So it will come with IE and have an opition to download other browsers


Looks like the only thing that will change is a "nag" screen.

(post attached to AEP but open question to all)

Has MS officially announced it?

ATM looks like all reports lead back to CNET.

No link, but I've no reason to doubt CNET when they say they are quoting a Microsoft spokesman.

In reply to a post by AnotherExPipex:

No link, but I've no reason to doubt CNET when they say they are quoting a Microsoft spokesman.

It could very easily be true, but risky to believe only one source unless it's directly reported from the actual company.

Foolish, perhaps, but not really risky! It's not a big deal either way. Que sera sera.

Certainly keeps Win7 in the news, and that can only be good for MS.

They know a thing or two about free publicity.

DELETED

Edited by TrevorSP (Sat 01-Aug-09 16:40:07)

most would get someone computer experienced doing it for them.

I have 6 people alone who have asked me to install windows 7 for them when they have it. Its not that diffilcult to do either, boot of the disk and install. I feel microsoft on their proposals for the s**** upgrade versions make it more complex tho.

Comparing windows 7 installer to windows xp, windows xp you had to sit there during the installation to answer questions such as cd key and lan configuration. Windows 7 will go through the entire install once you have picked the drive to install on and you get the questions right at the end instead.

clean install generally give you less hassle.

funny enough if I had a choice between no browser full version and with a browser upgrade version for same price, the full version wins easily.

there will be a way to get IE on there without making a copy of it first, whether its some installer included or on cd, I am sure there will be a way.

In reply to a post by marc2003:

Microsoft: No browserless Windows 7 after all

finally some clarification on the bigger issue than the browser.

Those who pre-ordered Windows 7 "E" through a recent discount offer will get the full version, as Microsoft had promised. However, Microsoft plans to now sell Windows 7 upgrades in Europe and also offer a higher-priced full version (for those without an earlier copy of Windows)--similar to what it is doing in the rest of the world.

This looks to be straight from the horse's mouth.