Windows 11 Pro will soon require a Microsoft Account

Flipping stupid idea, why should people be forced to have a Ms account if they have no requirement for them. Even Apple have not gone this far with Mac OS.

Certainly will keep me away from Windows 11 even if I don't go the MAc way.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/18/22940517/windows-...

As far as I'm aware you can just go through this with your noddy microsoft account and then create a non-Microsoft account thereafter and never use the Microsoft account any more. Microsoft still need to sell copies of Windows to enterprise etc so the ability to avoid Microsoft account will be there.

What version of Windows are you using at the moment? I can remember when you said you wouldn't use Windows 8 It's easier to just stay with the times.

Embrace Windows 11. Just work around any of its privacy invasion attempts.

In reply to a post by Pipexer:

As far as I'm aware you can just go through this with your noddy microsoft account and then create a non-Microsoft account thereafter and never use the Microsoft account any more. Microsoft still need to sell copies of Windows to enterprise etc so the ability to avoid Microsoft account will be there.

What version of Windows are you using at the moment? I can remember when you said you wouldn't use Windows 8 It's easier to just stay with the times.

Embrace Windows 11. Just work around any of its privacy invasion attempts.

Noddy Microsoft account? I don't have an MS account and I don't want one. Windows 11 pro business users can set up using a domain, so that is fine, Their is a way to get around it, having to pull out the ethernet at a certain time on installation, then Windows 11 will eventually ask for a local account, this is on the home version, but no doubt MS will block that hack. The problem is, what happens when a computer have Wi-fi and Windows 11 don't have the drivers?

I am using Windows 10, as it says on the sig, I liked Windows 8, I don't remember saying I would not use it, in fact I wanted to stay with Windows 8 instead of going to 10.

You are looking at things the wrong way and this is why we companies do what they like, because like you say embrace, this is why we can't even go to the supermarket without being asked have you a clubcard, nectar or sparks card,. i don't want to embrace it and maybe if enough people say no, Ms may think again.

It shows how desperate Ms is to get people to have a MS account, all I can think it is for is more data grabbing.
Bring back the Amiga days I think

It doesnt bother me in the least. An online account tells Microsoft (Apple, whoever) no more about me than a local one does. But an online account is far more secure than a local one, and very convenient if you use more than one device. Plus. I get free online storage.

You need online accounts to do most anything on the Internet nowadays.

It would only bother me if I wanted a computer that wasn't connected to the outside world; there are plenty of alternative OSs to handle that situation.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Flipping stupid idea, why should people be forced to have a Ms account if they have no requirement for them. Even Apple have not gone this far with Mac OS.

Its in "insiders" so lets stop the panic and wait and see if its mandated.

My next PC will have an Intel Core 12th Gen CPU and I want to run Windows, so it will have to be Win11 as the older OSes are not being updated to understand the different core types. (performance cores vs efficiency cores).

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

It doesnt bother me in the least. An online account tells Microsoft (Apple, whoever) no more about me than a local one does. But an online account is far more secure than a local one, and very convenient if you use more than one device. Plus. I get free online storage.

You need online accounts to do most anything on the Internet nowadays.

It would only bother me if I wanted a computer that wasn't connected to the outside world; there are plenty of alternative OSs to handle that situation.

That is fine, it does not bother you, at the end of the day it is your choice if you want a MS account, just like it should be my choice that I don't want one. How is a Online account more secure than a local one?
wow, free online storage, I can get that from any provider, in fact I got it from Dropbox, not that I use it these days, i only used it for two files to share between this machine and my old laptop and Onedrive would be useless for that. These days I have the files on my Nas. Not that I use the old laptop these much these days. I tend not to use cloud storage, prefer my stuff to be stored locally.

You say we need accounts to do anything on the Internet, but that is the problem, what I am doing on my computer don't need an MS account to do it, so even if my computer is connected to the net, it still doesn't need a MS account. I don't want to use MS services, I have no need for them.

I would love to use Linux, but Linux don't have the software I use.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Flipping stupid idea, why should people be forced to have a Ms account if they have no requirement for them. Even Apple have not gone this far with Mac OS.

Its in "insiders" so lets stop the panic and wait and see if its mandated.

My next PC will have an Intel Core 12th Gen CPU and I want to run Windows, so it will have to be Win11 as the older OSes are not being updated to understand the different core types. (performance cores vs efficiency cores).

It will be mandated Ms wants us all to use their MS accounts, I am shocked they have not forced it on Windows 10 users. I can see many people staying with Windows 10 and not bother to update, in fact I had a message of someone who has Windows 11 on a newish and have seen this news and now wants me to put Windows 10 on the new computer. He has been thinking of doing that anyway, but this news has certainly made up his mind for him.


This windows 10 not supporting new hardware is like when Windows 10 came out, Windows 8 not supporting newer hardware.
MS is in Cahoots with the hardware manufactures, and they have proved it again and again.

Well if I stay with P.C and will be staying with windows 10

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

How is a Online account more secure than a local one?

It's harder for a hacker to get at the password database.

wow, free online storage, I can get that from any provider, in fact I got it from Dropbox, not that I use it these days,

Don't you need an online account for that?

even if my computer is connected to the net, it still doesn't need a MS account.

But Microsoft get just as much information about you as they would if you had an online account.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

]It's harder for a hacker to get at the password database.

What password database?

Don't you need an online account for that?

yes, but it is my choice, it was my choice to use Dropbox, my choice to have an online account, that is the difference and also it is easy enough to stop dropbox and there is only one directory connected to it.

But Microsoft get just as much information about you as they would if you had an online account.

You may be right, but i still feel this is all about data grabbing, after all what other reason would MS want use to use an MS account? It is a free account, so they will not make money out of it unless they manage to persuade some people to update to say Microsoft 365. MS don't give out free Ms account for no reason at all, like any other company who does the same sort of thing, the same thing as supermarket loyalty cards, people think they are getting something great form them, not realising that the supermarkets are grabbing a load of data worth a lot more to them than the petty few points they give out.


Almost everything thing these days is data grabbing and to be honest I am getting a bit fed up with it. even the company that makes my printer wanted me to download some software, so it could send info back to them, thankfully it is a separate bit of software.

I miss the days when we could go shopping, just buy the products, pay and walk out, without getting them trying to get us to sign up for something. The days even on the net when I could just buy stuff and not have because you got that, we think you may want to back that.
it is all big data. even our local town centre is capturing people's Wi-Fi on their phones, so they can count how many people go into town, My phone wi-fi is turned off once I leave the house.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

What password database?

The one that stores account passwords.

yes, but it is my choice, it was my choice to use Dropbox, my choice to have an online account

Your choice to use Windows.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

The one that stores account passwords.

On windows? if so i don't use it, I don't have a password on my computer.

Your choice to use Windows.

You are right, well kind of, when I first started using I did so because CBM had gone belly up and the Amiga was no more, so I got a Windows machine, Macs were way out of my price range then, even if I thought about getting one.
Over the years I have stayed with windows, because of software I have got, also Macs were still out of my price range, and also they used intel chips. Linux i have tried a few times and while I like Linux, the software is not there and it can be a pain sometimes, I just want something that works, certainly these days.
Also, when I first started to use Windows there were none of this we want to know all about rubbish, with telemetry and accounts.
I used to have a Hotmail account, because that was the thing years ago, mainly for MS messenger, then it was required for Windows 8, because Ms tried this you must have an account before on Windows 8, but then they have done away with that. It was at that time that I decided I did not need a hotmail account, so I never used it, by now it will have ceased to exist, If I knew Ms was going to get this bad, I suppose i should have noticed the signs, but anyway, if I knew they were going to get this bad, I would have mucked around with linux a bit more.

I have been on the verge of changing to a Mac on my next update, Ms have pushed me closer to it, they don't force you to have an Apple I.D account, they push it, but don't force it. I think this machine will stay as it is now until the end of it's life, and Windows 10 will stay on here.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

On windows? if so i don't use it, I don't have a password on my computer.

Wow - that's really secure.

You are actually still using a password - it's just that you choose a blank one. Almost as good as "passw0rd".

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

On windows? if so i don't use it, I don't have a password on my computer.

Wow - that's really secure.

You are actually still using a password - it's just that you choose a blank one. Almost as good as "passw0rd".

Why do I need a password on my computer? I am the only person at home.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

On windows? if so i don't use it, I don't have a password on my computer.

Wow - that's really secure.

You are actually still using a password - it's just that you choose a blank one. Almost as good as "passw0rd".

Why do I need a password on my computer? I am the only person at home.

And in your neck of the woods you don't have bad lads that come into other people's houses when there is no one in to help find a new home for the personal property which they find in the house?

The bad lads don't even need to come into the house. They can walk through the open door from thousands of miles away and take what they want. And they leave no evidence of their visit.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

The bad lads don't even need to come into the house. They can walk through the open door from thousands of miles away and take what they want. And they leave no evidence of their visit.

And an OS logon isn't going to change that. OS logon is sensible when using disk encryption and potential for multi-user separation, and with modern Windows laptops using TPM for Bitlocker encryption keys the OS logon is important, but many corporates use Windows Hello (e.g. PIN / Fingerprint / Face scan) these days.

Data security to protect against those bad guys over the network is where you deploy defence-in-depth, including multiple backup types, including online and offline.

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

And in your neck of the woods you don't have bad lads that come into other people's houses when there is no one in to help find a new home for the personal property which they find in the house?

Nah, my next door neighbour will scare them away . It is pretty quiet here, to be honest, and I have enough cameras outside that should put most of them off.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

The bad lads don't even need to come into the house. They can walk through the open door from thousands of miles away and take what they want. And they leave no evidence of their visit.

As jchamier posted, a OS password is not going to stop them,

A password not stored locally is a good deterrant. It wouldn't stop someone who is really determined for ever, but casual hackers will just move on to an easier target.

It's like locking your house or your car. It doesn't prevent a determined intruder but, unless there is something special about your house or car, why should they bother when there are easier pickings.

If the aim is to steal your data, backups are irrelevant.

Despite your advice, I'll continue to use passwords on my computers, I'll continue to lock my car, and I'll lock the house whilst I'm out. And I'll continue to be vaccinated against Flu, Covid, and whatever else the NHS has to offer.

Little in life is certain but it's sensible to tip the odds in your favour as far as is possible.

Not sure all of your examples are analogies.

It’s a lot easier to pick up the desktop and make away with it than worry about local password. Easy to read Ntfs using almost any other OS.

I use an OS password but I know many whom don’t! And don’t encrypt as it’s a desktop!!

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

Little in life is certain but it's sensible to tip the odds in your favour as far as is possible.

As Damon Runyan wrote many years ago, "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet."

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

A password not stored locally is a good deterrant. It wouldn't stop someone who is really determined for ever, but casual hackers will just move on to an easier target.

It's like locking your house or your car. It doesn't prevent a determined intruder but, unless there is something special about your house or car, why should they bother when there are easier pickings.

An OS password will not stop people getting into my computer if they do it via the net connection. An OS password only stop people who are in front of the computer,

The password will still be stored locally - it gets cached locally so you can still log in if the Internet connection is lost. One of the main ways hackers get at passwords on corporate networks is by hacking the local password cache of end user devices - much easier than trying to hack into the servers themselves which are probably better secured.

Cached credentials can be deleted.

On a corporate network you would set a group policy to prevent local caching of domain passwords.

Edited by TinyMongomery (Mon 21-Feb-22 18:00:33)

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

On a corporate network you would set a group policy to prevent local caching of domain passwords.

You can with ADDS but I've not seen that with AzureAD which everyone is moving to.

User accounts and passwords are a fairly (benign?) natural part of computing, generally speaking.

Early computer (and certainly the unix-based beasts that I learnt most from), were all shared platforms. A 'big' box in the basement and loads of 'cheap' VT or maybe later graphical Xterminals all hosted off the one box. The only way to harmoniously and securely organise and partition compute resources, and storage was...user accounts and passwords.

Perhaps if you've come primarily from a background of single use, personal computing, then the concept of user accounts and passwords and especially 'online' accounts may appear big brother-ish.

However another way of looking at this is simply a logical progression / the matured version of Microsoft (and Netware etc) "roaming profiles" from the 90's. Just that the "profiles" now can be accessed anywhere, rather than across the office LAN

I find the Microsoft account incredibly useful in syncing applications across various devices.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

User accounts and passwords are a fairly (benign?) natural part of computing, generally speaking.

Early computer (and certainly the unix-based beasts that I learnt most from), were all shared platforms. A 'big' box in the basement and loads of 'cheap' VT or maybe later graphical Xterminals all hosted off the one box. The only way to harmoniously and securely organise and partition compute resources, and storage was...user accounts and passwords.

Perhaps if you've come primarily from a background of single use, personal computing, then the concept of user accounts and passwords and especially 'online' accounts may appear big brother-ish.

However another way of looking at this is simply a logical progression / the matured version of Microsoft (and Netware etc) "roaming profiles" from the 90's. Just that the "profiles" now can be accessed anywhere, rather than across the office LAN

i find passwords on computer s a pain to be honest, certainly if it's not required, like it is not as if my cat is going to come up here, turn the computer on and the use it.

I use passwords at work to access their computers, well it is a shared username with a colleague as my decided to stop working a couple of years ago, it only accesses the desktop anyway and maybe some local files, I need to use a browser to access Microsoft 365 and have my own username and password for that, that is to get info, print out reports and waste sheets as well as do training, also need it to access Yammer and teams, neither I use as I have no interest in using them
But to access my own computer at home, I see no need for a password.
The same with a MS account, I have no need for one, I really am getting fed with being told what to do by companies and our government.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I find the Microsoft account incredibly useful in syncing applications across various devices.

That is fine, I set one of my brothers up with Ms account or what ever it used to be called a few years ago as he wanted to get some files from his desktop to his laptop and the way he did things, it made sense to use a Ms account and one drive.
I have no need for it, I only have one Windows based computer working, the laptop uses Linux, which is why I went for dropbox, not that I use the laptop that often anyway these days.

I do not take too kindly with being pushed or forced into things, and I fight back anyway I can.

I use OneDrive on Linux.

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I use OneDrive on Linux.

via a browser, or is there software available to sync? I know Ms don't have their own software, unless that have changed. Not that it matters now anyway, I use the NAS and have taken any files I stored on dropbox off. I also don't use the laptop a lot, but I have been mucking around with it for the last couple of days trying to get my printer to work on it and failing.

Anyway, I still don't have the need for a MS account,

Edited by zyborg47 (Mon 21-Feb-22 23:09:30)

In reply to a post by TinyMongomery:

I find the Microsoft account incredibly useful in syncing applications across various devices.

All of which are of course only as secure as the weakest programme/app running on them, often silently. Thus reducing the security of all to that of the most vulnerable device. Or of the most gullible person using any of them.

Just like COVID-19 gets into communities .

It's great however that no corporate username/password database ever gets hacked, providing entry to your contacts and thereby a route to them. Your earlier suggestion that hackers go after the easy meat like someone without a Microsoft account rather than the more supposedly secure is somewhat naive.

Yes, small fry might. The serious guys go after the serious databases, harvesting six or seven-digit numbers of IDs.

Having said that, even loners have been known to hack into places like the Pentagon.

I have six desktops here and five at our Scottish property, none of which pass the specs for Windows 11 installation, most old Dell machines but all happily running Windows 11 perfectly and have been long before Windows 11 release as a Windows insider helping to develop and snag the beast.
I have made USB installation media that has the checking code removed which will install Windows 11 on any machine 100%, that includes a laptop here that used to run Mint that couldn't handle Windows 10, which shows Windows 11 is light on systems.
Getting back to the password issue which even these installations now require upon running there is still a perfectly good workaround allowing all machines here to run Windows 11 without a Microsoft account or password. Simply sign in with any Microsoft account initially, then create another user using the user with no Microsoft account option, name it simply user in my case and DON't enter a password. Give that account full rights, then log out, swtch to the account named user and delete the microsoft account. Job done. Windows 11 supposed machine capability is more about software control than security which we can all run or machine capability!

Edited by professor973 (Fri 25-Feb-22 12:41:59)

I have put Windows 11 on this machine, and it worked, kind of, but file explorer was flaky, not sure if it is sorted now, but it was not a couple of weeks ago, copy some large or a lot of files and file explorer will freeze, there are other issues, Windows 11 is to be honest full of more bugs than Windows 10 was on launch, if that is possible, or it seems like it anyway.

I used Rufus to make the last ISI of windows 11 i downloaded able to work on my computer. the problem is, while it may work now, we don't know what Ms will do to stop it, already they are putting reminders and watermarks on the desktop, what stops them for doing something worse?


As the Ms account, what if you have not got one in the first place? So I would have to make an MS account, to set up the way you are saying?

i installed Windows 8.1 on my machine a couple of days ago, it is so fast, much faster than Windows 10, and I have got none of the memory management errors I did when I tried to run Windows 8.1 on this Ryzen machine when I first built in 5 years ago, which is one of the reason I went to Windows 10, the other reason was because MS made it a pain to use on my machine by stick a notice up all the time saying Windows 8.1 don't support my processor. not getting that now.

i only put Windows 8.1 on to see what it will do0, but to be honest I may keep it on, at least until I decide what I am doing, staying with Windows or going for a Mac.


I looked at prices of CPU, motherboard and memory to update this thing and to make it worthwhile updating I would have to go with a Ryzen 9, I don't think the newer Ryzen 7s will be much of a update from the R7 1700 I have in my machine, anyway, for a ryzen 9, memory and mother board I am looking at £700, I can almost buy a Mac mini for that, a whole computer and the new model when it comes out will be even more powerful.

I have no problems with Windows 11 on any machine. As for the password requirement, there is little else we can do at the moment. Linux is a much better OS, but that or iOS as has been suggested won't avoid passwords. We will just have to see what the MS bods come up with, but whatever it is it will be defeatable.

Just don't try moving or copying a load of files, certainly over a network.

What do you mean there is little we can do about password requirement? I have not had a password on Windows for years, while you do need a password on Linux, you can get the OS to boot up without and the same with macOS, the difference is that these passwords don't have to be linked to some online account that Ms seems to want us all to have.

I didn't say there is little we can do about a password requirement. I said there is little we can do about future changed until we know what they are and when we do they will be defeatable. I move masses of data from my network NAS boxes between addresses.

Edited by professor973 (Sat 26-Feb-22 23:36:18)

In reply to a post by professor973:

I didn't say there is little we can do about a password requirement. I said there is little we can do about future changed until we know what they are and when we do they will be defeatable. I move masses of data from my network NAS boxes between addresses.

If I was the only one having problems then I would say it is something here, but other people have the same problem.


As for passwords, it is my computer, surly it is up to me and not MS if I want a password?

I have also found a few problems with Windows 8 running on this machine, one is that my video editor will not update to the latest version on here, saying it needs Windows 10 or later, another is the video drivers are not great as they are Windows 7 drivers, I thought Windows 10 was based on 8 so Windows 10 drivers would work, but they don't.

So i may have to go back to Windows 10 sadly.

It's the control we face these days. I'm sure Microsoft would say abide by their conditions of use or don't use their OS and of course no password needed without an one.
I am increasingly disillusioned by Microsoft and if not for one or two pieces of software that only cater for Windows I would have been all Linux long ago passwords or not, a rock solid system.
Microsoft obviously struggling a little this month with 11 as I've never seen so many updates to patch during a month and Microsoft make sure you install pending updates as they tend to slow a machine to a crawl untill the update is installed.

You are right, it is the control we face these days and sadly it is seems to be everywhere, with other companies including supermarkets wanting to grab as much info as they can, Getting a bit fed up with it to be honest.

I would have gone to Linux, but hassle, i loved using it on my laptop i was going to set up my old desktop for Linux, but awful problems getting my printer to work with any distro I have tried, so I have given up for a while. Worked ok with my old Canon printer.

anyway, for a laugh, I decided to download the latest version of Windows 11 dev, using Uudump, the version that is supposed to force people to use a MS account, but it don't, go other sign in options and it is possible to get a local account, looking at the write up by Ms about this version, they seem to have taken the you must have a MS account off, so maybe MS have listened. It does have the system requirements not met message in the bottom right of the desktop.

The ability to group icons on the star menu is nice, the only problem is, no ability to label them, from what I can see, so that is a bit naff.
I only just installed it, but now have to go to bed as i have to go to work in the morning, I will look a bit more when I get home tomorrow.
I will have a muck around with this for a week, but then I have to put the machine back to working condition. I want to try and get back into video editing stuff, if I stop being so shattered from work.

They might as well continue with the local account option even if you need to look around to find it, as anything else will end hacked anyway.
I agree printer has long been a pain with Linux, but founs my Cannon runs happily on the Q4XP, a Debian Q4OS based XP clone.
Adding the complete Q4OS printer subsystem in terminal should allow your printer to be recognised and installed.
$ sudo apt-get install foomatic-db printer-driver-all cups

A few shots here. https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/ja7dql/q4xp...

https://q4os.org/downloads1.html

Edited by professor973 (Mon 28-Feb-22 01:11:26)

just as i was having coffee this morning before work, i thought I would try to install Windows 11 dev again, but without the internet connection, did not like that at all, wanted the connection. connected it and then it would not move past the we want you to have a MS account, not sure why it was fine the first time I tried it.
I eventually press shift and f9 i think and it came up with a command prompt, went to control panel and made another local account ands then after a while it allowed me to use a local account, I don't know if that was a fluke.


I am typing this in Edge at the moment as it is on the machine.

I will try it again, when I get home from work while waiting for food.
I love experimenting, but as I said at some point I need to put this machine back to normal.

now sadly i have to go to work.

The only copy of W11 I'm running is a dev copy (sorry insider preview) virtualised on Mac Silicon. Seems pretty snappy even though its technically not supported by MS.

Anyway, perhaps there's something that MS are tweaking or toying between iterations of the the dev versions which may explain why you are seeing these differences?

Seeing that that your copy of Windows 11 is virtualised, makes me think, why the hell did i not do that , like it makes not much difference as my main Windows set up is backed up as an image. Maybe a bit of wear and tear on the SSD.

Windows 11 is pretty snappy to be honest, well most of the time.

the third time I installed Windows 11, it decided to allow me to make a local account with ease, well as much ease as MS will allow.

Still running W10 natively on other windows boxes for the time being. I use Parallels for virtualisation on Mac and have done so for as long as I've been running them at home, so since version 3 or 4. They are now at version 17!

I am still looking towards a Mac mini later on in the year, depending on what Apple does and depending if I feel like updating and spending the money.
if I went for another x64 based machine, I would have to spend a fair bit of money to get something that is a lot better than this ryzen 7 1700, so maybe it is the best just to get a Mac mini.

I have now installed the normal version of Windows 11 on here and will keep to it for a while as long as they have solved the file explorer bug
Easy enough for me to go back to Windows 10.

I installed windows 11 on 2 of my laptops when it launched. I've had no real issues with it so far. The only niggle I had was the new interface for file explorer. After a quick online search I was able to put this back to the older (win 10, 8, 7) file explorer.

The requirement for the microsoft account for windows 11 pro is just for insiders at present. However I can see where they are going with this as windows 11 is going to be more intergrated with the cloud so having a microsoft account will simplify the integration with microsoft products online (including ones that way still to be launched). I admit I could be completely wrong here.

I've not seen anything re Windows 11 home edition see the potential issue with this as most "home" users might not need all the additional potential features/products

I installed the leaked version, the version that MS tried to keep hidden before Windows was officially revealed, but we all knew it was coming?

I have Windows 11 running on this machine now again and to be honest it seems to be ok, none of the explorer crashing I did have. Easy enough for me to go back to Windows 10, all my files are stored on a different drive, so I just restore windows 10 from an image.

Windows 10 was supposed to be based in the cloud, I remember when it was launched, that some of it was cloud based, Windows 11 is the same to be honest, just bits in the cloud, but no all of us want to use the services or we may use other providers. Like email, I have no interest in using hotmail, outlook or what ever Ms calls it these days, I have my own domain and pay for an email service and most people I know use Gmail or what ever Apple provides on their phones, I even had a email today from someone using Yahoo, don't get that very often. I don't really do cloud storage and I have no interest in using Office online or any other service MS offers, so what is the point in trying to push someone like me to have a MS account? Even if they succeeded with forcing me to have a MS account, I would put the computer back to a local account a get rid of anything to do with a MS account on it. but I suppose they are looking at people who have no idea what they are doing and will just do what they are told to do, happens a lot to be honest.

I don't like being pushed and the more I am pushed, the more I will rebel, they have found that out at work with the constant nagging about us using Teams and yammer. If they have just said about it and left it, I may have at some point decided to use them, but keep nagging me about using it and I will refuse outright to use it.

Are you not forced to pay tax and national insurance?

If a company you work for uses a particular product then you are required to use that product.

In reply to a post by broadband66:

Are you not forced to pay tax and national insurance?

If a company you work for uses a particular product then you are required to use that product.

Tax and national insurance is the facty of life and also pay for services.


As i said to them at work, if they want me to use Teams, then they supply the hardware, it is not required, and they are not really forcing us, but they are pushing it, hard. I doubt they could force people anyway, some people don't have smartphones.
i don't see the point in it, if they want to tell me something then do so to my face after all they are in the same building.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

i don't see the point in it, if they want to tell me something then do so to my face after all they are in the same building.

I suspect your direct management are being pushed by their direct management as its probably a company wide initiative.

I suspect that if they did supply you with a smartphone that allowed you to participate in their Team sessions and said you are also free to use the phone for your own use that you would be suspicious that they would then be trying to track your personal usage and use that against you if they decided to.

Actually back in the 90s the company I used to work for offered us each a phone for support purposes that we could also use for personal usage but we said no thanks we will stick with the single support phone that gets passed around to whoever was on call that week.

In reply to a post by dect:

I suspect your direct management are being pushed by their direct management as its probably a company wide initiative.

It started as a trial for 4 weeks ion October last year, in three areas, we and another area has chat and groups, the other one had chat only. As far as i know it have not gone any further and no other areas have had it, Managers have had teams for around 4 years I think.
Yammer is also available and while i don't use that either, I do chat to people at work who does and the local group or our store group of yammer had a fair few people using it, and then they closed that group and transferred it to teams to try and get people to use it, but i think about 5 people use it regular, plus the managers.
the store manager put a notice on about what is on and asked people to like it, so he knows how many people read it, someone said there was about 8 likes, which out of a work place that have nearly 400 people that is pretty bad.

My department manager is really trying to get people to use it, even asking people to put their holiday requests in via it, as the system we use to put holiday request in was hacked last year and still not up and running for us. I gave her mine on a bit of paper on saturday.

Surly five months is more than enough time to realise that Teams is dead meat and the majority of people are not going to use it, the idea is that we can chat to colleagues, get hold of managers and post to the local group about things.
not being funny, but i can do that face to face, so why do we need a app to do it? It is different if you are on the road or in different offices or even in a large building, but easy enough to use a phone.

It seems like the old way of speaking face to face is vanishing, want to tell people something, put it on a notice board, they just spent money putting up notice boards and they are not being used.

i know what you will say, it is the sign of the times and technology, but technology can be hacked, as have been proved by our holiday booking system being hacked.

You are correct, but surly they can have a phone just with Teams on? But we have nearly 400 people at work, so I doubt they would give out phones.

I don't know, maybe I just give up and go with the flow, but I have enough stuff on my phone as it is, and I always said I don't want anything to do with work on my phone. Even when I book holidays, I used their website and not the app, or I did before the system, was subjected to ransomware, got more info that way as well as I was able to see who was in on the same day as me.

Where I work they have integrated Yammer in to the Teams main menu. This was to try and get people to use Yammer as almost everyone likes Teams, but most hate Yammer (apart from the show off type crowd).

Teams has its place even in a single office location. Got to be going on 20 years ago the when the company started using Lotus Notes Sametime (or something similar sounding), and this was a call centre so they certainly had a lot of phones, but many still preferred to get a quick response by this over email or phone call, or heaven forbid getting off their seats.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Lotus Notes Sametime (or something similar sounding)

Lotus (company) Sametime (product). We used it too. As well as Notes. I see Notes & Sametime are still around, now owned by HCL. (via IBM).

My company moved to Slack. Ugh.

You just reminded me, one of my old clients (a large financial services company based in Reading…) was a big adopter user of Notes IM / Sametime. This would’ve been around 2004/05. So an eon ago!!

In a corporate sense I was Outlook/Office user from the mid-late nineties, with a few stints in IBM-centric organisations around ‘99/2000 using Lotus then back to Outlook.

In reply to a post by gary333:

Where I work they have integrated Yammer in to the Teams main menu. This was to try and get people to use Yammer as almost everyone likes Teams, but most hate Yammer (apart from the show off type crowd).

We had Yammer first and had a local group for our store, but a few weeks after launching Teams for us, they realised that people were using the Yammer group and not using Teams, so they closed down the one on Yammer. Yammer is integrated into teams for other groups in the company, the things is the amount of people posting in Teams compared to those that posted in Yammer is very small.

i don't know why, since all they had to do was get rid of the yammer app and install the Teams one, maybe people don't like the idea of chat part of teams and having notifications all the time ands yes I know that can be switch off.

Teams has its place even in a single office location. Got to be going on 20 years ago the when the company started using Lotus Notes Sametime (or something similar sounding), and this was a call centre so they certainly had a lot of phones, but many still preferred to get a quick response by this over email or phone call, or heaven forbid getting off their seats.

I am not in an office, it is a supermarket, I am not sat in one place I move around.

I think the whole idea of teams was to try and get people away from WhatsApp for company stuff,, since WhatsApp have it problems with privacy, but then I don't think Teams is much better.

I really thought they would have given up by now, since very few people use it and gone back to Yammer or if they were going to use Teams, they would have rolled it out to more areas.
My department manager is trying always to get people to use it, while she may have had some success in getting a few more people to install it on their phones, they are not using it, so no point really.

I think sometimes Tech don't always make things better, there really is no need for teams in my job, it doesn't make any difference to my job at all.