In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

The main point of upgrading from Win 8.1, where I am using Classic Shell, to Win 10 is to get back to the normal Windows tailorable Start Menu, only to have to go back to Classic Shell to get it .

Windows 10 start menu is not the normal tailorable start menu., that is the problem. If you want to pin software shortcuts to the start menu on ten, then you end up with those awful tiles. Windows 10 start menu is not very configurable at all. I used it for over a month and gave up going back to startisback, which is more like the Windows 7 menu. That was until I went back to Windows 8.1

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Please show me where you can find them?

Start > Settings > Personalisation > Start

I found "Choose which folders appear on Start" quite nice since it allowed me to customise the left side of the menu to more like how I wanted it.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

It seems that you can only put folders into the text list, not individual programs. Unless someone knows otherwise of course.

Yes you can!. You put the shortcuts to the individual programs directly under either:

• For all users: C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs , or
• For you alone: C:\Users\you\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs

rather than any sub-folder below there.

Perhaps I described what I was trying to achieve badly.

In Windows 7 those locations are where "All Programs" are detailed; not where the 'pinned' apps are detailed. Putting a shortcut in these location in Windows 10 doesn't seem to have any effect.

I've now found that In Windows 7 the pinned apps locations are described here. I haven't had chance to try these on Windows 10.

Yes, I found that eventually, but it is not where HowToGeek said it would be and it is missing some v. useful shortcuts like Control Panel, Devices & This PC that they show. Also missing is "Enable Context Menus and dragging & dropping" which is a big thing of a proper menu system which is sadly lacking in Win 10.

HowToGeek admits that they did that on a pre-release of Win 10. Looks like MS have slugged it even further once they got to proper release which makes it almost useless .

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Putting a shortcut in these location in Windows 10 doesn't seem to have any effect.

It does for me! Putting a shortcut or a folder of shortcuts there appears under All Apps. These have always been the traditional Windows locations for its entire real programs menu system. Even systems like Classic Shell rely on them. These have nowt to do with the Metro apps tiles if that is where you are looking.

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

I've now found that In Windows 7 the pinned apps locations are described here.

Good find but these only contain shortcuts to real programs. Again none of the Metro apps appear under here.

Well, all that waiting for Win 10 thinking it'll bring back the classic menus that we had up to Win 7 and those provided by Win 8 extensions like Classic Shell has come to nought . It is bit of a con for MS to claim it is even more flexible & tailorable than before.

Besides the ugly look of it, a big feature missing is to be able to reorder the menu items in a nested structure by sliding items (files or folders) from 1 place to another. All Apps is a fixed alphabetic list allowing just 1 level of nesting of folders.

I guess I'll be back to Classic Shell as soon as I've set my new PC up.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by cheshire_man:

Putting a shortcut in these location in Windows 10 doesn't seem to have any effect.

It does for me! Putting a shortcut or a folder of shortcuts there appears under All Apps. These have always been the traditional Windows locations for its entire real programs menu system. Even systems like Classic Shell rely on them. These have nowt to do with the Metro apps tiles if that is where you are looking.

I agree. When I said no effect I was referring to the apps list that is immediately visible on clicking Start. I agree they change the All Apps lists, but that's a click further than I want for a very short list of perhaps 6-8 apps.

I know very few people who like the new menu on Windows 10 and the few I know that have updated to 10 have asked me about a replacement, so I give them two choice, Classic shell, which seems to be the best free one or Start is back, which is not free, but I think it is better than Classic shell.

Is Windows 10 something businesses will buy, having refused Windows 8? Or have Microsoft boobed again?

It seems to be a thoroughly rubbish product, given that the whole raison d'etre of Windows is windows themselves and the user interface.

The attempt all the time to move us away from movable window usage, nowadays essential for serious business use, is surely self-defeating.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Is Windows 10 something businesses will buy, having refused Windows 8? Or have Microsoft boobed again?

Ultimately yes, because in four years time Microsoft will cease support for Windows 7.