Advice needed

Hi.

I've been with Zen for nearly 3 weeks now and my speeds are not bad but not good either. I find that after the initial period my speed still fluctuates mainly in the evenings going down from a steady download 6.900kbps to sometimes 2.000kbps and as low as 1.000kbps and my upload is usually around 370kbps and remains around that speed consistently.
A friend had a look at my router statistics and said that the line attenuation was too high, not sure what that means. I've put the readout from the modem below. It's a Netgear DG834N modem/router. I don't want to make changes as I'm not sure how to or even if I should.
Any advice gratefully received.

Caley.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 19.0 db 11.0 db
Noise Margin 11.8 db 26.0 db

In reply to a post by caley:

I've been with Zen for nearly 3 weeks now and my speeds are not bad but not good either. I find that after the initial period my speed still fluctuates mainly in the evenings going down from a steady download 6.900kbps to sometimes 2.000kbps and as low as 1.000kbps and my upload is usually around 370kbps and remains around that speed consistently.

If I recall you're on an exchange in a relatively remote area where BT haven't yet upgraded to ADSL2+ or the WBC network. So its likely congestion on the ATM Virtual Paths (VP's).

Try checking your exchange status:
http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

A friend had a look at my router statistics and said that the line attenuation was too high, not sure what that means. I've put the readout from the modem below. It's a Netgear DG834N modem/router. I don't want to make changes as I'm not sure how to or even if I should.

attenuation is a measure of line length. It can't be "too high", as it depends physically how long the wire is between your home and the exchange.

Your friend might have meant SNR margin was too high, and normally the target is 6db - but your router is connected at the full 8megabit speed possible on the old BT wholesale network and there is plenty of margin left, so you're at 11db.

You would have been better off on your LLU service (sky, talktalk etc), as they operate a newer network platform. Hopefully BT will upgrade your exchange to ADSL2+ and the WBC network soon, this will generally improve things.

Thanks for responding.
I'm not in a remote area. I'm about half a mile from the exchange as the crow flies but you're right about the exchange being ancient. There is work going on at the moment in the area, upgrading to fttc for most of the homes here (16000) but there are a number of homes like ours that look like we'll be by-passed as our lines go directly to the exchange and not via a cabinet. A number of people, like me, are waiting to see how things will go. The switch on looks like it'll be about 4 weeks from now. I'm not too sure about joining Talk Talk, they seem to have people complaining constantly about speeds on their LLU and the speed I'm getting at the moment is better than some but thought I might be able to get a bit more.

Caley.

In reply to a post by caley:

I'm not in a remote area. I'm about half a mile from the exchange as the crow flies but you're right about the exchange being ancient.

You're close to your exchange, but BT must consider the exchange itself in a fairly remote area, or low population density, to not have upgraded it yet to WBC. I have a business colleague in Forres, and their exchange did not have WBC until last year, and that is despite 4,000 homes connected.

In reply to a post by caley:

I'm not too sure about joining Talk Talk, they seem to have people complaining constantly about speeds on their LLU and the speed I'm getting at the moment is better than some but thought I might be able to get a bit more.

Don't confuse TalkTalk physical network, with TalkTalk the very discount ISP. You can buy service from other ISPs that use the TalkTalk physical network. The TalkTalk ISP is generally congested, as they don't charge enough to built a high performance network for all customers all the time.

Edited by jchamier (Wed 26-Feb-14 21:21:53)

You are connecting at full whack to exchange at the best that exchange has to offer. So changing settings in router can't improve matters. Indeed, I wouldn't listen to your friend. He can't know anything as your attenuation (= line length) is in fact quite low; > 40 dB would be highish.

What your are suffering from is contention during peak hours at & beyond your exchange, which is probably a remote congested one.

No idea why BT has left this exchange in the dark ages. There are more and more houses going up here day and daily. But as I said they're leaping into fttc quickly because somebody else is paying.
You intrigue me with your information on Talk Talk. Do you mean if I joined another isp who uses Talk Talk network my speeds might increase? If that's the case how do I find these isp's that use the Talk Talk network?

Dark ages too here in the NE , speeds day time 7,500 KPBS , night time it's just a waste of time as speed drops off to dial up speeds
I think they still using wind up phones and morse code in our little village !

In reply to a post by caley:

You intrigue me with your information on Talk Talk. Do you mean if I joined another isp who uses Talk Talk network my speeds might increase? If that's the case how do I find these isp's that use the Talk Talk network?

You should ask in the Which ISP? forum on this bbs. I believe Vivaciti is one, and there are probably others. They may not have the product or price you want however.

If FTTC is being installed, then Openreach may be running the fibres back to a completely different exchange, and may not upgrade your local exchange.

I'm on the outskirts of Inverness in a large housing estate which has a telephone exchange that hasn't had any improvements done since 2006. Some people here get no more than 2000kbps at any time so I can class myself as one of the lucky ones who get's more than 6000kbps when it's good during the day but evening I can get half of that at times. You must be depressed at getting dial up speeds some of the time. I know I would be.

Not sure what BT are doing but I know that a lot of the folks around have been watching their cabinets getting upgraded but no such luck here. There's not another exchange close enough here to running cables to. The nearest I think is Inverness 4 miles away and I don't think BT will run that amount of cable unless they have to.
I'll check out the forum you recommend and see if there is anything I could get that might suit me. I'm not too fussy about price if I can get a bit faster speed.
Thanks for the tip.

Caley

They will run the fibres from the new Cabs back to a headend in Inverness, so they won't touch the equipment in your exchange.

I would advise ordering FTTC as soon as it becomes available to you, each cab will start off with 1Gb backhaul which will be many times what the DSLAM in the exchange gets. ( DLSAMs get it in increments of STM1 / 155Mb)

When it gets to the headend exchange the backhaul each wholesale provider buys will be in physical increments of 1Gb as well. ( They don't have to turn it all on but upto the 1Gb it is adjustable by software so quick to increase).

It is rare to hit congestion on backhaul for the FTTC network, although it still suffers delays when the distant end has limited bandwidth for the demand placed upon the websites.

You need to check the BTWholesale checker to see if you are connected direct to the exchange or via a cab. If it tells you the cab number you will be able to find it by the number on it. If no number is present you will not be able to get FTTC at this stage. May be lucky if they install a new cabinet outside the exchange at a later date.

If you switch to a service using ADSL2+ then this shows the speeds you could get

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

It only says bad now, because you have your speed capped by being on the maximum speed for IPStream Max

Unfortunately I have found out that I'm not on a cabinet, my line is direct to the exchange apparently. A good number of other address here are in the same boat.

Sorry for being a bit thick here but are you saying if I switch to another isp who uses ADSL2+ I will see a speed increase and if so how will I find out who uses ADSL2+?

Thanks.

Caley.

If you have TT and/or C&W LLU at your exchange look at any of the reseller ISPs. They will do 1 or other, but will be more expensive than TT LLU direct, but with usually better support.

In reply to a post by caley:

Sorry for being a bit thick here but are you saying if I switch to another isp who uses ADSL2+ I will see a speed increase and if so how will I find out who uses ADSL2+?

Everyone but BTwholesale in your area will be ADSL2+. The complex part is working out which network provider each ISP uses.

Punch in your exchange name here, or tell us which exchange you are on.
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

Edited by jchamier (Thu 27-Feb-14 19:14:43)

I'm on Inverness Culloden exchange.

In reply to a post by caley:

I'm on Inverness Culloden exchange.

As expected, the data says the BT network in your area is the old one (20CN) and not the new one (21CN - also known as WBC). Your exchange area has an FTTC ready for service date of 1st March, so there should be at least one FTTC cabinet in your area by then. BT will eventually upgrade the exchange to 21CN but there is no date shown (its not connected to the roll out of FTTC)

Your exchange also has C&W network, Sky network, and TalkTalk network as alternatives to the BT 20CN. You could ask your chosen ISPs if they can offer service using any of those.

Try http://vivaciti.net/ or http://www.xilo.net/adsl_broadband/ and there are probably others.

Edited by jchamier (Fri 28-Feb-14 08:05:59)

I knew the exchange was ancient, no updates since 2006. Although it's said that fttc will be here in March, I know there will be many addresses that won't get it, me included. Earlier on in another thread I said that quite a few homes in this estate only have lines that go directly to the exchange and miss out on a cabinet. So no cabinet not fttc for us unless BT can do the upgrade to include us by install numerous cabinets where needed. That takes money and BT doesn't like to spend money, albeit somebody elses money, cause what they don't spend from the funds they acquired they usually get to keep. I'll have a look over the websites of the companies you mention and see if I can get something to suit. I have seen mention in various threads that TTB is good if you can get it from an isp so I'll look for them after I find out for sure we won't be getting fibre.

Good luck. I just read in another post that Utility Warehouse (never heard of them) also offer ISP services using TalkTalk's network.

Thanks for all the very useful information and advice you've given me jchamier. Helped me a lot in understanding more about fttc, exchanges and other things. Great to have so many knowledgeable people in the same place and who impart information when it's asked for. Thanks also to everyone here who helped me. I now have to decide what exactly I am going to do if fttc is out for me. No doubt that TTB will be in my decision somewhere.

Caley.