Digital phone switchover

We have been advised by Zen that we will need to switch to Zen’s digital voice service (as we wish to retain a landline number) when the switchover comes.

I see that we can use either our current landline phone with an adapter, a DECT phone or a mobile phone via an app to connect to the supplied FritzBox.

Our current phone setup is the main phone with answerphone down stairs and a second handset in the bedroom on the same number/line.

Can I also use my mobile phone connected via the app to the Fritzbox as an additional handset overnight? If yes, can I also answer my home landline calls on my mobile phone when connected to wifi away from my home wifi network?

TIA

Hi,

In short, Yes and Yes.... I do this. I have an account with Sipgate to provide my VOIP number, and I can use a Fritz app on the mobile (Fon), or any of the many other voip apps available. This works at home, and anywhere else with an internet connection (either WiFi or 4G etc).

I am not sure about keeping the same number using Sipgate, others may know, wasn't an issue for me to keep as this house was FTTP only when I moved in, so I started from scratch with a new number.

Having had several emails from Zen about their digital voice I looked in to the possibility of changing.

We need to keep the landline number for incoming calls. All outgoing calls are made using our mobiles so we are currently paying £34.99 a month for Unlimited Fibre 2 and line rental (no calls package)

Looking at current offerings we'd be paying £34 for the Unlimited Fibre 2 (without a phone number) and £6 for digital voice with a calls package we don't need. And we'd loose the lifetime price. When I rang to check my conclusions I was told that they might be introducing a digital voice PAYG option.

I wish there was a way I could move just our phone number to A&A's service without losing the Zen price for the broadband!

In reply to a post by astanden:

We have been advised by Zen that we will need to switch to Zen’s digital voice service (as we wish to retain a landline number) when the switchover comes.

Just to cover all of the bases, that is not strictly correct. You can switch the landline number to a free-standing VOIP provider like Sipgate but that would cease your internet service with Zen. Even if you contract with Zen for a new service you may end up without internet (or VOIP phone) service for a few days while the changeover takes place. If you have a mobile phone signal where you are you can mitigate the temporary loss of phone service by putting a VOIP app onto your mobile so that will receive calls dialled to your old landline number.

Thanks all for the replies 🤗

Sorry to hijack the thread but could somone explain how digital voice would work for someone like me who has FTTC broadband from Zen (using an asus router which I guess would have to be replaced) but phone service from BT?

What is this all about ? I am a Zen customer and use my landline all the time as I just prefer the perfect signal from it. I just ignored the emails as I assumed it was an optional thing, so I will HAVE to change over soon ?? Any reason why given landlines are perfect as they are ? Doesn't both internet and phone travel down the same existing copper line anyway ?

More info here https://www.zen.co.uk/switchtodigital/

Basically you use an adapter to connect your phone to the Zen FritzBox router.

You will have to ask BT about your phone service.

Edited by astanden (Tue 28-Feb-23 17:01:11)

Doesn't both internet and phone travel down the same existing copper line anyway ?

Not for much longer.

https://www.zen.co.uk/switchtodigital/

Edited by astanden (Tue 28-Feb-23 16:59:38)

In reply to a post by jelv:

Looking at current offerings we'd be paying £34 for the Unlimited Fibre 2 (without a phone number) and £6 for digital voice with a calls package we don't need. And we'd loose the lifetime price. When I rang to check my conclusions I was told that they might be introducing a digital voice PAYG option.

Their FAQs say "If this is a direct move instigated by Zen we will move you to a like for like service with no change to your contract or billing." and "If you are eligible for the Price for Life guarantee, then this will be honoured." so if they introduced a digital voice PAYG option at 99p/mo you would end up paying the same.

I wish there was a way I could move just our phone number to A&A's service without losing the Zen price for the broadband!

As their FAQ also says "There will be no change to your contract or terms. You will retain your current end of contract date." I suppose you could migrate from line rental + FTTC to SOGEA + DV with Zen, even if it does temporarily cost more per month, then port your Zen DV number to AAISP as long as Zen confirm that the SOGEA + DV are independent and removing DV would not affect the SOGEA service.

In reply to a post by BlizzardUK:

What is this all about ? I am a Zen customer and use my landline all the time as I just prefer the perfect signal from it. I just ignored the emails as I assumed it was an optional thing, so I will HAVE to change over soon ??

Yes.

In reply to a post by BlizzardUK:

Any reason why given landlines are perfect as they are ? Doesn't both internet and phone travel down the same existing copper line anyway ?

Today, the phone signal is an analogue ("baseband") signal, as has been the case since the days of Alexander Graham Bell, whilst the Internet is overlaid as a modulated digital signal ("broadband"). You may have been using a 'splitter' plugged into to your phone socket which separates out the two signals.

However the analogue phone network is in the process of being turned off, and will be finally switched off in December 2025. This is because it requires big and expensive equipment in the telephone exchanges, and voice calls are an ever-diminishing requirement with the increase in use of "over the top" communication tools like Zoom, Teams etc. Or to put it another way, there's no money to be made from phonecalls any more. This will also allow lots of the smaller telephone exchanges to be closed completely.

So what's happening is, your "landline" voice service is also being converted to a digital service, which runs on top of the data connection. You'll keep your phone number, but the calls will be delivered differently, via your Internet router.

It's similar in concept to the analogue to digital TV switchover which happened around 2012. (There, the justification was to free up frequencies for use by mobiles)

I have the same puzzle to deal with. Voice and line rental from BT, FTTC from Zen.

(I am assuming) either the line rental has to move to Zen, or the FTTC/whatever's allowed to be sold moves to BT. Either way it's going to cost me more overall.

Try talking to Zen about moving your BT line to Zen's Digital Voice. You can run DV over FTTC, then converting later to full fibre BB is pretty straightforward. My DV costs £6/month with 1000 landline and mobile minutes.

I did a presentation on this to my local U3A and had the same sentiment from some in the audience. Basically land line customer numbers are falling with many (half?) households no longer having a landline but a mobile only.

Next, the equipment in the exchange is ageing, much having been installed in the 60s. BT/OR backbone is all fibre & digital. The copper wiring is older. So their plan is to get rid of most of the exchanges (nice real estate there) and the equipment and have a fibre only digital network from house to the few major exchanges left. Any local equipment can be installed in a hole in the ground or street cabinet.

Analogue phones are going the same way as vinyl. Most will accept the convenience of the change but some will prefer the old. Big issue with digital is that in a power cut the phone goes dead, as some people in remote areas who had gone digital found out in the storms when they had no power for some days (and no mobile either).

BT exchanges are primarily System X and System Y digital switches and replaced the previous electronic and electro mechanical switches , this started in the very late 70’s and continued to around 1990 , so the majority are around 30-35 years old , there is no equipment in service that dates back to the 1960’s , although 30 years plus is pretty ancient when it comes to IT , and part of the rationale to replace these aging systems is that the manufacturers don’t supply these anymore ( and haven’t for quite some time )

In reply to a post by tdw42:

In reply to a post by jelv:

Looking at current offerings we'd be paying £34 for the Unlimited Fibre 2 (without a phone number) and £6 for digital voice with a calls package we don't need. And we'd loose the lifetime price. When I rang to check my conclusions I was told that they might be introducing a digital voice PAYG option.

Their FAQs say "If this is a direct move instigated by Zen we will move you to a like for like service with no change to your contract or billing." and "If you are eligible for the Price for Life guarantee, then this will be honoured." so if they introduced a digital voice PAYG option at 99p/mo you would end up paying the same.

If the direct move of voice to Digital Voice is instigated by the customer after recently receiving an invitation by email to do so, sent by Zen, would the price for life remain in force?

I wish there was a way I could move just our phone number to A&A's service without losing the Zen price for the broadband!

I thought this too. Sadly even if Zen renumbers the line first A&A say they are unable to pick up the number if it is disconnected and waiting to be connected to something else.

As their FAQ also says "There will be no change to your contract or terms. You will retain your current end of contract date." I suppose you could migrate from line rental + FTTC to SOGEA + DV with Zen, even if it does temporarily cost more per month, then port your Zen DV number to AAISP as long as Zen confirm that the SOGEA + DV are independent and removing DV would not affect the SOGEA service.

What’s the minimum term for Digital Voice? It doesn’t seem to be published anywhere. It’s a pity they’re not offering Digital Voice without minutes. I’d rather pay £1 a month for none.

I can’t imagine Zen would be daft enough to pretend broadband and Digital Voice were still linked and so cancel a customers broadband if they later instigated a port out request of the voice number to another voice provider!

In reply to a post by EvD:

If the direct move of voice to Digital Voice is instigated by the customer after recently receiving an invitation by email to do so, sent by Zen, would the price for life remain in force?

You would hope so, given their wording. Some clarity from Zen would be most helpful.

I wish there was a way I could move just our phone number to A&A's service without losing the Zen price for the broadband!

I thought this too. Sadly even if Zen renumbers the line first A&A say they are unable to pick up the number if it is disconnected and waiting to be connected to something else.

I don't know if the Ofcom mandated One Touch Switch process due to come into effect 3 April 2023 will make a difference, assuming communication providers have actually implemented it given the apparent lack of progress.

What’s the minimum term for Digital Voice? It doesn’t seem to be published anywhere. It’s a pity they’re not offering Digital Voice without minutes. I’d rather pay £1 a month for none.

Something in the £1 - £1.50/mo region would be reasonable for PAYG.

I can’t imagine Zen would be daft enough to pretend broadband and Digital Voice were still linked and so cancel a customers broadband if they later instigated a port out request of the voice number to another voice provider!

Again some clarity from Zen would be helpful, there is no mention of minimum term or restrictions on porting in the official terms and conditions that I could find.

Perhaps someone in this position should press Zen for a written commitment on these points. (Luckily my landline number has been VoIP for ~9 years, I took the opportunity to migrate from CIX landline (unused) + Plusnet FTTC to Zen SOGEA only just over a year ago, so I'm not in a position to do so.)

In reply to a post by EvD:

I can’t imagine Zen would be daft enough to pretend broadband and Digital Voice were still linked and so cancel a customers broadband if they later instigated a port out request of the voice number to another voice provider!

It's not pretending, it's deliberate. It likely will cease the broadband and it's how other providers do it too.
BT, Sky, Talktalk, and others, will all disconnect your broadband if you try to migrate the bundled Digital Voice number to another provider.

It doesn't matter if it's a SOGEA service or data only FTTP service, if it comes with a bundled VOIP number then porting the number out ceases the broadband.
Both voice and broadband are usually part of a single contract (which is why I used the term bundled) and most customers move both at the same time which is probably why they stuck with the same system.

The only way around it is renumber and export which most providers don't support.
AAISP are 1 of the few who do support renumber and export but it doesn't help if you aren't already with them.
They can't remember a number that isn't with them already so you need to migrate your number to them. That would cease the broadband with the current supplier so you need to migrate both services to them for them to be able to renumber your line without ceasing the broadband.
That's quite a few costly hoops to jump through to separate the landline number and broadband without ceasing the broadband and doesn't achieve the original aim of staying with Zen.

So I would guess the only way to keep the Zen lifetime price guarantee is to retain your number with them.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 10-Mar-23 15:52:29)

I managed to get a response from Zen (via Twitter):

Hi there John, I'm sorry to hear this. What I will advise is that, if you have received an email advising you of the copper line switch off in 2025 and to make a decision as to whether to switch to Digital Voice or cancel your landline completely, you should be given the option of choosing what you want to do by way of an 'action needed' at your side.

An order is then placed on our system for you and it ensures that you will at the very least not pay any more than you are doing now, given that we have prompted the change and not you.

It is possible the email you have is just Digital Voice marketing, but please be assured that at some point in the near future (if you haven't already), you should receive an email advising you that action is needed by yourself and to choose your preferred option. It is this email that will ensure you pay no more than you currently do and that is what to watch out for.

It's pretty underhand to keep sending me marketing emails saying PSTN is being turned off, that I'll need to switch to Digital Voice and encouraging me to sign up for it at an extra £5 per month if in time I'll get an email where I can switch and pay no more! I wonder how many will be conned in to paying the extra?

Got that email yesterday saying I had to choose/reply by 16th March 2023.

I kindly sent them a reply saying as it was still over 30 months before the switch off, I will make my decision 6 months prior to the official switch off date.

Not heard back yet.

Like others in this forum, I have been receiving marketing emails from Zen encouraging me to switch to Digital Voice for just £6 per month.
I currently have an FTTC unlimited fibre 1/telephone bundle with zen for which I pay £36.50 per month. I have a "Lifetime Price Guarantee" for the broadband component. When I enquired about taking up their offer I was informed that I would have to change to SoGEA and the price of my broadband service would double.
I am having trouble reconciling this with the "Lifetime Guarantee" and the fact that, as I am reliably informed that the wholesale price of SoGEA is less that FTTC.
As a Zen customer for 20 years, I am more than disappointed in this matter.

In reply to a post by gee_dee_ell:

I am reliably informed that the wholesale price of SoGEA is less that FTTC.

A little. Start here:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/products/pricing

WLR: £104.40 pa (until 31st March, then rises to £116.04)
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...

FTTC 80/20: £125.52 pa (until 31st March, then rises to £139.44 pa)
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...

=> TOTAL: £229.92 pa (rising to £255.48 pa)

SoGEA 80/20: £215.04 (until 31st March, then rising to £238.80 pa)
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/prici...

Therefore, SoGEA is cheaper by £1.24 per month (rising to £1.39 per month). Assuming I've not missed something. All prices exclude VAT.

In reply to a post by gee_dee_ell:

I currently have an FTTC unlimited fibre 1/telephone bundle with zen for which I pay £36.50 per month. I have a "Lifetime Price Guarantee" for the broadband component. When I enquired about taking up their offer I was informed that I would have to change to SoGEA and the price of my broadband service would double.

I don't see how it would double. The current pricing for Unlimited Fibre 1 is £30/mo plus £6/mo for DV is £36, even going to Unlimited Fibre 2 the price would be £40/mo in total.

I am having trouble reconciling this with the "Lifetime Guarantee" and the fact that, as I am reliably informed that the wholesale price of SoGEA is less that FTTC.
As a Zen customer for 20 years, I am more than disappointed in this matter.

As others have found it does seem that they have been pushing marketing emails to persuade people to voluntarily change to a new package, rather than initiating a dialogue and migration which would not change the existing contract and costs.

Edited by tdw42 (Sat 18-Mar-23 19:45:44)

In reply to post by candlerb

Therefore, SoGEA is cheaper by £1.24 per month (rising to £1.39 per month). Assuming I've not missed something. All prices exclude VAT.

Thank you for confirming my assertion.

In reply to post by tdw42

In reply to a post by gee_dee_ell:
I currently have an FTTC unlimited fibre 1/telephone bundle with zen for which I pay £36.50 per month. I have a "Lifetime Price Guarantee" for the broadband component. When I enquired about taking up their offer I was informed that I would have to change to SoGEA and the price of my broadband service would double.

I don't see how it would double. The current pricing for Unlimited Fibre 1 is £30/mo plus £6/mo for DV is £36, even going to Unlimited Fibre 2 the price would be £40/mo in total.

My current package cost is:- (VAT inc.)
Unlimited Fibre 1 (lifetime price guarantee) - £13.00 pm
Line Rental Plus -calls inclusive ---------------£23.50 pm

So, by honouring their life time price guarantee my new deal should be £13 + £6 for digital voice, which yields £19 per month.

Looking at it the other way, if Zen were now to charge me £36/mo for data and voice, and DV is £6/mo then it means I am going to be charged £30 pm for broadband service.

Which as you will now see is well over double what I am currently paying.

Your voice service is subsidising your broadband service. While they are itemised separately you are paying for the package. I don’t think there is a situation where you would have been able to pay £13/month for UF1 alone.

Today you are paying £36.50 total.

You move to SoGEA + DV you pay £36 total.

This is basically the same deal. (Minus lifetime guarantee…)

In reply to a post by gee_dee_ell:

In reply to post by tdw42

In reply to a post by gee_dee_ell:
I currently have an FTTC unlimited fibre 1/telephone bundle with zen for which I pay £36.50 per month. I have a "Lifetime Price Guarantee" for the broadband component. When I enquired about taking up their offer I was informed that I would have to change to SoGEA and the price of my broadband service would double.

I don't see how it would double. The current pricing for Unlimited Fibre 1 is £30/mo plus £6/mo for DV is £36, even going to Unlimited Fibre 2 the price would be £40/mo in total.

My current package cost is:- (VAT inc.)
Unlimited Fibre 1 (lifetime price guarantee) - £13.00 pm
Line Rental Plus -calls inclusive ---------------£23.50 pm

So, by honouring their life time price guarantee my new deal should be £13 + £6 for digital voice, which yields £19 per month.

Looking at it the other way, if Zen were now to charge me £36/mo for data and voice, and DV is £6/mo then it means I am going to be charged £30 pm for broadband service.

Which as you will now see is well over double what I am currently paying.

How do you come up with that?
If your line rental plus calls is presently £23-50, then line rental plus DV won't be £6.

The reason the broadband will double is the line rental will be incorporated into the broadband price, when you are forced to switch.
So, when you change over to SoGEA, on your bill there will be no mention of a Line Rental charge, but really it is still there, there will only be a broadband charge, which will be around the same price as you are paying now, £30.50, but if you go with DV then you will have to pay another £6.

From what I have read, the Lifetime Price Guarantee still carries over if you are changed to SoGEA and still on the same Broadband Package. The call package is an added extra for £6.

Personally, I am waiting till nearer the official switch off date, as by then I may not require the need to change to DV and will use the mobiles to make and receive calls.

In reply to a post by Geordish:

Your voice service is subsidising your broadband service. While they are itemised separately you are paying for the package. I don’t think there is a situation where you would have been able to pay £13/month for UF1 alone.

Today you are paying £36.50 total.

You move to SoGEA + DV you pay £36 total.

This is basically the same deal. (Minus lifetime guarantee…)

+1

SoGEA is basically a bundle of copper line rental + VDSL, without voice service.

Previously you were paying in two parts:

1. copper line rental + voice service
2. VDSL

But the "VDSL" part can't be bought without the "copper line rental" part, and never could. That is: it used to be considered as an add-on service, which could only be applied to a copper line which was already being paid for.

(Aside: in both cases your ISP adds Internet access on top of the VDSL part, as well as billing, support etc)

In reply to a post by Geordish:

Your voice service is subsidising your broadband service. While they are itemised separately you are paying for the package. I don’t think there is a situation where you would have been able to pay £13/month for UF1 alone.

Today you are paying £36.50 total.

You move to SoGEA + DV you pay £36 total.

This is basically the same deal. (Minus lifetime guarantee…)

Thank you for this explanation. I was not taking into account that there would still be a line provision charge.

I am less cross with Zen now, but think I will take the advice of jelv in a different forum, and that is "do nothing and wait for the email from Zen and you'll continue paying the same and keep the price for life. All the emails you've had so far are marketing emails trying to make you change to a new contract and lose the price for life."

Thanks also to Scottish_Pete and Canndlerb for their comments