In reply to a post by BlizzardUK:

What is this all about ? I am a Zen customer and use my landline all the time as I just prefer the perfect signal from it. I just ignored the emails as I assumed it was an optional thing, so I will HAVE to change over soon ??

Yes.

In reply to a post by BlizzardUK:

Any reason why given landlines are perfect as they are ? Doesn't both internet and phone travel down the same existing copper line anyway ?

Today, the phone signal is an analogue ("baseband") signal, as has been the case since the days of Alexander Graham Bell, whilst the Internet is overlaid as a modulated digital signal ("broadband"). You may have been using a 'splitter' plugged into to your phone socket which separates out the two signals.

However the analogue phone network is in the process of being turned off, and will be finally switched off in December 2025. This is because it requires big and expensive equipment in the telephone exchanges, and voice calls are an ever-diminishing requirement with the increase in use of "over the top" communication tools like Zoom, Teams etc. Or to put it another way, there's no money to be made from phonecalls any more. This will also allow lots of the smaller telephone exchanges to be closed completely.

So what's happening is, your "landline" voice service is also being converted to a digital service, which runs on top of the data connection. You'll keep your phone number, but the calls will be delivered differently, via your Internet router.

It's similar in concept to the analogue to digital TV switchover which happened around 2012. (There, the justification was to free up frequencies for use by mobiles)

I have the same puzzle to deal with. Voice and line rental from BT, FTTC from Zen.

(I am assuming) either the line rental has to move to Zen, or the FTTC/whatever's allowed to be sold moves to BT. Either way it's going to cost me more overall.

Try talking to Zen about moving your BT line to Zen's Digital Voice. You can run DV over FTTC, then converting later to full fibre BB is pretty straightforward. My DV costs £6/month with 1000 landline and mobile minutes.

I did a presentation on this to my local U3A and had the same sentiment from some in the audience. Basically land line customer numbers are falling with many (half?) households no longer having a landline but a mobile only.

Next, the equipment in the exchange is ageing, much having been installed in the 60s. BT/OR backbone is all fibre & digital. The copper wiring is older. So their plan is to get rid of most of the exchanges (nice real estate there) and the equipment and have a fibre only digital network from house to the few major exchanges left. Any local equipment can be installed in a hole in the ground or street cabinet.

Analogue phones are going the same way as vinyl. Most will accept the convenience of the change but some will prefer the old. Big issue with digital is that in a power cut the phone goes dead, as some people in remote areas who had gone digital found out in the storms when they had no power for some days (and no mobile either).

BT exchanges are primarily System X and System Y digital switches and replaced the previous electronic and electro mechanical switches , this started in the very late 70’s and continued to around 1990 , so the majority are around 30-35 years old , there is no equipment in service that dates back to the 1960’s , although 30 years plus is pretty ancient when it comes to IT , and part of the rationale to replace these aging systems is that the manufacturers don’t supply these anymore ( and haven’t for quite some time )

In reply to a post by tdw42:

In reply to a post by jelv:

Looking at current offerings we'd be paying £34 for the Unlimited Fibre 2 (without a phone number) and £6 for digital voice with a calls package we don't need. And we'd loose the lifetime price. When I rang to check my conclusions I was told that they might be introducing a digital voice PAYG option.

Their FAQs say "If this is a direct move instigated by Zen we will move you to a like for like service with no change to your contract or billing." and "If you are eligible for the Price for Life guarantee, then this will be honoured." so if they introduced a digital voice PAYG option at 99p/mo you would end up paying the same.

If the direct move of voice to Digital Voice is instigated by the customer after recently receiving an invitation by email to do so, sent by Zen, would the price for life remain in force?

I wish there was a way I could move just our phone number to A&A's service without losing the Zen price for the broadband!

I thought this too. Sadly even if Zen renumbers the line first A&A say they are unable to pick up the number if it is disconnected and waiting to be connected to something else.

As their FAQ also says "There will be no change to your contract or terms. You will retain your current end of contract date." I suppose you could migrate from line rental + FTTC to SOGEA + DV with Zen, even if it does temporarily cost more per month, then port your Zen DV number to AAISP as long as Zen confirm that the SOGEA + DV are independent and removing DV would not affect the SOGEA service.

What’s the minimum term for Digital Voice? It doesn’t seem to be published anywhere. It’s a pity they’re not offering Digital Voice without minutes. I’d rather pay £1 a month for none.

I can’t imagine Zen would be daft enough to pretend broadband and Digital Voice were still linked and so cancel a customers broadband if they later instigated a port out request of the voice number to another voice provider!

In reply to a post by EvD:

If the direct move of voice to Digital Voice is instigated by the customer after recently receiving an invitation by email to do so, sent by Zen, would the price for life remain in force?

You would hope so, given their wording. Some clarity from Zen would be most helpful.

I wish there was a way I could move just our phone number to A&A's service without losing the Zen price for the broadband!

I thought this too. Sadly even if Zen renumbers the line first A&A say they are unable to pick up the number if it is disconnected and waiting to be connected to something else.

I don't know if the Ofcom mandated One Touch Switch process due to come into effect 3 April 2023 will make a difference, assuming communication providers have actually implemented it given the apparent lack of progress.

What’s the minimum term for Digital Voice? It doesn’t seem to be published anywhere. It’s a pity they’re not offering Digital Voice without minutes. I’d rather pay £1 a month for none.

Something in the £1 - £1.50/mo region would be reasonable for PAYG.

I can’t imagine Zen would be daft enough to pretend broadband and Digital Voice were still linked and so cancel a customers broadband if they later instigated a port out request of the voice number to another voice provider!

Again some clarity from Zen would be helpful, there is no mention of minimum term or restrictions on porting in the official terms and conditions that I could find.

Perhaps someone in this position should press Zen for a written commitment on these points. (Luckily my landline number has been VoIP for ~9 years, I took the opportunity to migrate from CIX landline (unused) + Plusnet FTTC to Zen SOGEA only just over a year ago, so I'm not in a position to do so.)

In reply to a post by EvD:

I can’t imagine Zen would be daft enough to pretend broadband and Digital Voice were still linked and so cancel a customers broadband if they later instigated a port out request of the voice number to another voice provider!

It's not pretending, it's deliberate. It likely will cease the broadband and it's how other providers do it too.
BT, Sky, Talktalk, and others, will all disconnect your broadband if you try to migrate the bundled Digital Voice number to another provider.

It doesn't matter if it's a SOGEA service or data only FTTP service, if it comes with a bundled VOIP number then porting the number out ceases the broadband.
Both voice and broadband are usually part of a single contract (which is why I used the term bundled) and most customers move both at the same time which is probably why they stuck with the same system.

The only way around it is renumber and export which most providers don't support.
AAISP are 1 of the few who do support renumber and export but it doesn't help if you aren't already with them.
They can't remember a number that isn't with them already so you need to migrate your number to them. That would cease the broadband with the current supplier so you need to migrate both services to them for them to be able to renumber your line without ceasing the broadband.
That's quite a few costly hoops to jump through to separate the landline number and broadband without ceasing the broadband and doesn't achieve the original aim of staying with Zen.

So I would guess the only way to keep the Zen lifetime price guarantee is to retain your number with them.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 10-Mar-23 15:52:29)

I managed to get a response from Zen (via Twitter):

Hi there John, I'm sorry to hear this. What I will advise is that, if you have received an email advising you of the copper line switch off in 2025 and to make a decision as to whether to switch to Digital Voice or cancel your landline completely, you should be given the option of choosing what you want to do by way of an 'action needed' at your side.

An order is then placed on our system for you and it ensures that you will at the very least not pay any more than you are doing now, given that we have prompted the change and not you.

It is possible the email you have is just Digital Voice marketing, but please be assured that at some point in the near future (if you haven't already), you should receive an email advising you that action is needed by yourself and to choose your preferred option. It is this email that will ensure you pay no more than you currently do and that is what to watch out for.

It's pretty underhand to keep sending me marketing emails saying PSTN is being turned off, that I'll need to switch to Digital Voice and encouraging me to sign up for it at an extra £5 per month if in time I'll get an email where I can switch and pay no more! I wonder how many will be conned in to paying the extra?

Got that email yesterday saying I had to choose/reply by 16th March 2023.

I kindly sent them a reply saying as it was still over 30 months before the switch off, I will make my decision 6 months prior to the official switch off date.

Not heard back yet.