Zen and OR/CF FTTP provider availability

Background: Long time Zen customer in Glasgow and happy with them; currently on a FTTC package. CityFibre dug up my street in November 2021 and went live with Vodafone soon after. This has now expanded to 5 providers: adding TalkTalk, Giganet, Brillband and Brawband. However, I'd rather stick with Zen for a CityFibre-based connection but this is not (yet) and option.

I've contacted both Zen and CityFibre a few times since the beginning of 2022 to try to ascertain if there's even a rough timescale for availability (a bit like this post in the forum), but the best answer I could get was from CF that: 'the contract for the area is with Zen and has been since January, so the ball is in their court'. I asked someone on the Zen sales team about this but that info was above their pay grade.

Recently, Openreach have done pole upgrades in the area and I can now get a FTTP connection with Zen- but it would be Openreach. I'd rather not go with OR as the connection is more expensive and is asymmetric.

I've tried to find an area where FTTP is available from Openreach and CityFibre to see if Zen lets you choose which to go with. My feeling is that since Zen can offer FTTP via OR now, they won't be in a hurry to make it available via CF.

I don't mind waiting a few more months if that's what it would take to get a symmetric FTTP package with Zen+CF; but if it's unlikely to happen, I would probably look at another provider. Does anyone know of an area served by both where you can choose between OR and CF for your connection with Zen? Or should I think about leaving Zen? Cheers!

Edited by bertieb2 (Thu 18-May-23 13:03:39)

Sorry I dont know any area you can try, just ranting as its good / bad to see I am not the only one feeling this frustration! Zen seem to have picked up the bad habits that larger ISP's have about communication with customers. I have mailed them multiple times not one reply, tried Facebook messenger they just say to email them or call, Call them they just say sign up on the web to be updated when they go live, I just want to know, if its next Month or next Year, I dont get why letting people know is such a pain point. If you have been waiting since 2022 I guess we have no hope.

Luckily Netomnia / Youfiber are just also "going live soon" (Both Netomnia and CityFibre have built on my street) so I think ill go with them and drop Zen

Getting a reply is no help either. I've been asking for about a year (CityFibre was installed here in March 2021). I was told then it should be available in September 2022, https://www.zen.co.uk/cityfibre/ claims late 2022, and a couple of months ago, Technical Support said April 2023 according to a report they'd recently read. Emailed again this week and was told they don't know.

The only useful info I've seen is on ISPreview's site in March 2022 and December 2022.

In reply to a post by bertieb2:

Does anyone know of an area served by both where you can choose between OR and CF for your connection with Zen?

A postcode recently appearing on the TBB map - not mine - G53 7NP in Glasgow South West. CityFibre say an address has service and show a list of ISPs including Zen. Following the Zen link allows you to order a CF service.

Meanwhile the Openreach website also says FTTP available (although I can't get Zen to offer both OR and CF.)

So, yes, the Halfway exchange area has both and Zen can provide via CF.

My understanding is that Zen only take the local services from CityFibre, that means they need a connection to each CityFibre exchange (FEX). Glasgow has multiple CityFibre exchanges.

It sounds like the footprint is available to Zen, but they've not got a connection to the CityFibre exchange you are connected to yet. Zen are the ones who should be able to confirm if/when that is planned.

Don't know what Zen's approach is on Openreach vs. CityFibre, some ISPs seem to let you pick others have a clear preference for one of them if both are available.

Be aware that Cityfibre ISP's dont have any migration policy to make the process fairly seamless like what Openreach network has, from experience on my second CF ISP change and its still a nightmare, I just cant get my current ISP to get cityfibre to cease my line, as this is currently the only way I can move, it has to be ceased and then go somewhere new, its been two weeks now and about six calls, and thats to chase it, not including the original requests. Do a google for CF migrations, there are stories of people moving into a new home and because the previous owner either didnt disconnect the CF line or their ISP have messed things up, they are stuck in limbo not being able to order a service, and cant talk to anyone about it, stories of weeks with no connection.

Also CF ISP's sell it cheap and as we have already seen, some are going out of business leaving customers with potential disconnections.

Im lucky I have both CF and Openreach FTTP in my area, and I take both for redundancy, but if I could only choose one I'd go Openreach based service all day long.
There is supposedly going to be a "One touch" process for all services regardless of network provider available soon, and TBH if you choose CF then by time you think about moving again it could be fine.

Edited by Rolandrat (Sat 20-May-23 09:14:56)

Which CF ISPs are "going out of business"?

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Which CF ISPs are "going out of business"?

https://find-and-update.company-information.service....

Zybre/Airbroadband

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/05/broadb...

In reply to a post by RichTea23:

Sorry I dont know any area you can try, just ranting as its good / bad to see I am not the only one feeling this frustration! Zen seem to have picked up the bad habits that larger ISP's have about communication with customers. I have mailed them multiple times not one reply, tried Facebook messenger they just say to email them or call, (snip)

In reply to a post by stevejm:

Getting a reply is no help either. I've been asking for about a year (CityFibre was installed here in March 2021). I was told then it should be available in September 2022 (snip)

I share your frustrations! As RichTea says, it's kinda both good and bad to know I am not the only one in this boat.

It's quite annoying as Zen have been great in other areas in my experience- for example, they were very responsive about IPv6 and put me on a rollout trial about 8 years ago, which was refreshing! A certain other ISP which shall not be named but which rhymes with Birgin's position was that they weren't doing IPv6 as it was "bad for customers"†.

And therein lies the rub: I'm not sure another ISP would be as good as Zen? Looking at my options on the TBB ISP list it seems that only Giganet is the only one with IPv6 support? The downside is, they seem to have stopped offering static IPv4s as standard (according to this FAQ),that makes me worry about CGNAT being imposed which would be a deal-breaker. There is also Brillband, but I don't know much about them other than this forum post.

†: I get that there are or were annoying failure modes with IPv6 and it'd cause support headaches for the poor first-liners but the response came off as gaslight-y