Openreach deadlocked FTTP fault, Zen refusing to do anything

Since the start of our contract with Zen in August 2023, our FTTP 300 service has been not performing as expected, with upload speeds as low as 8Mbit over Ethernet with no other network traffic, and continuous packet loss.

Between October 2023 and May 2024, we’ve had 7 Openreach engineers, a new Nokia ONT with 2.5G port (replacing the original 1G port version) and a new Fritz!Box 7530 AX from Zen (to replace the original Fritz!Box 7530 version).

Most of the Openreach engineers found faults, such as the cable between the CBT (in the manhole) and the CSP being very tight, no slack and a curvature greater then 90 degrees. Zen also confirmed the following (copied exactly from an email they sent me):

“Openreach are not prepared to take any further action, they have also advised that the issue covers only a small area and a minimal number of properties”

When I clarified this statement with Zen over the phone, I was told “approximately 7 properties” in the local area were experiencing the exact same issue, including packet loss. Zen has also previously said another customer on a neighbouring road (they told me which road) was also experiencing the same issues and packet loss, and although they’re on a different CBT, they’re connected to the same splitter as us, which as far as I am aware has never been investigated by Openreach.

Zen has offered to reduce the bill by only £4/month until the end of the contract or end the contract altogether so we can go elsewhere. However, our Zen faults manager has already said switching ISP will not resolve this issue as Zen has proven the issue to be on the Openreach network between our property/splitter and the headend. They also said between the splitter and the headend there is no other splitter/node, it’s a straight cable to the exchange.

To prove Zen’s network is not the issue, Zen requested a migration in the exchange from their equipment to BT Wholesale, which Openreach actioned a few days later so it no longer says our PoP is BNG or xxx-LON in the Fritz logs.

We’ve had over 7 Openreach engineers sent out between October 2023 and May 2024, because Zen kept finding faults that Openreach claimed did not exist until Openreach finally decided to deadlock the fault with Zen in May 2024 after which Zen said there was nothing more they could do but suggest I complaint to CISAS. OfCom said Zen should raise an Industrial Level Complaint as Openreach has deadlocked the fault, not Zen, but Zen has refused to do this leaving me now with no choice but to make a complaint through CISAS.

Has anyone else experienced this issue before with an ISP? Other than complain to CISAS, I don’t know what else I can do.

One thing you could try is terminate the contract with Zen and migrate to A&A who say, on their "We'll fix your line" page that:

"Give us a month and we'll sort your problem broadband line or your money back. If you are migrating your service to us, even though you know you have a problem with your broadband line, we'll take on the fault. We'll tackle the problem and get it fixed within one month. If we don't, then you can migrate away, and owe us nothing for your migration to us and your service charges for that month."

They claim that they've failed to get a fault fixed only once in ten years.

The disadvantage is that if they succeed in fixing it, you'll be contracted with them for a year and their price is a little higher than Zen's.

Sounds a good option

In reply to a post by ashdown:

One thing you could try is terminate the contract with Zen and migrate to A&A who say, on their "We'll fix your line" page that:

They don't do it for FTTP. (That's for FTTC or SoGEA only)

Thanks - I wasn't aware of that. May still be worth having a word - they do seem to be more assertive than most when dealing with Openreach.

I'm not convinced they'd take on "there's a known fault in the network, Openreach have found it but are refusing to fix it" anyway.

If Zen cannot be bothered to push this any further then it might be time for the complaint to go into the Clive Selley mailbox. I'd also argue that since the service has a known fault on that it is not fit for purpose and Zen owe you a refund on your subscription charges. You have rights as a consumer that aren't just whatever ISPs agree to with Ofcom - admission of a fault makes the service not fit for purpose.

I wonder what skill level the Openreach engineers were that come out to look at this issue (there are some amazingly skilled engineers who could investigate this but may not have been involved), there are only so many possible issues with your service (and the others having the same issue on your PON). Openreach can't be allowed to abandon these sort of issues.

I'd also suggest that you speak to AAISP - they have a very good working relationship with Openreach and can pull the right strings to resolve issue.

Do keep us updated!

Thanks for your replies.

I have been running a BQM lately and it shows the packet loss:

My Broadband Ping

The service is definitely not fit for purpose. MJ Quinn did the initial install and messed that up according to the first engineer we had. In the early days, Openreach were instructed to send an N23 engineer but instead sent an N11 engineer. On a few occasions, they sent an engineer who hadn’t completed his training, apparently because of financial reasons (according to his manager). Really nice lad, but very limited to what he could do.

Openreach had apparently investigated the exchange at the start but Zen had no record of any attendance. Then many months later they started working at the exchange, cleaning the fibre connections, changing us to a different Layer 2 switch, and so on. But at no point have they checked the splitter which Zen believe to be the root cause of the issue.

I’m guessing CISAS will look at this from all angles, including the few occasions we had Openreach claim an engineer visited but no one was there, which generated a charge, which was then refunded by Zen. Openreach has been very sneaky with this issue, and now it’s deadlocked which leaves me thinking they know what the problem is, but either the cost to fix is too great or it’ll take too long to fix resulting in extended periods of downtime for everyone on that splitter. That’s just my opinion.

If Openreach threw the kitchen sink at it they COULD find this issue, its possible its the splitter but thats just a set of mirrors but wouldn't be too hard to replace, one spliced fibre in and upto 30 (some will say 32) spliced fibres out and a bit of labour by someone. The fact that its not just you having the issue says a lot especially if the affected properties on your PON are across multi ISPs. There is not much that can go wrong on FTTP really, has any of the engineers told you what your light level is?